Which day did God choose?

Bible Highlighter said:

The New Covenant officially began with Christ’s death.

“For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:17).

“Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.” (Luke 22:20).

Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.
So if the Law has changed, we have to be careful to look in what way it has changed.

I believe Jesus was making changes to the Law even at the sermon on the Mount.

For the Law said… an eye, for an eye…. BUT Jesus said… turn the other cheek if you are struck.

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Bible Highlighter said:

When looking at the Old Law one can categorize the Old Testament Mosaic Law (the 613 Laws of Moses) into a threefold division:

1. Moral Laws (Any Law pertaining to doing good as a part of nature).
2. Ceremonial Laws (Laws pertaining to ceremonies or rituals).
3. Civil Laws (Laws dealing with civil matters; Which includes Laws on carrying out justice).

Even before the written Law of Moses: We can see that there were Moral Laws (like: “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” Do not covet,” “Do not commit adultery,” etc.), and Ceremonial Laws (like: animal sacrifices).

God's moral laws came into existence for man and would forever exist for him after the Fall of Adam and Eve (after they received the knowledge of good and evil). A Moral Law is any law telling you to do good without a specific law telling you that such a thing is so (See Romans 2:14). These moral laws existed before the Law of Moses.

In the New Covenant (or New Testament) these Moral Laws (like: “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” Do not covet,” “Do not commit adultery,” etc.) are repeated from the 613 laws within the Law of Moses and they still are in effect (i.e. They have been carried over into the New Testament). However, the Old Testament Law of Moses as a whole or package deal is no more (contractually speaking). Ceremonial Laws or commands: Things like the commands on circumcision, animal sacrifices, the Saturday Sabbath, dietary etc. are no longer binding under the New Covenant. This is because the written Law given to Israel is no longer in effect (as a whole). How so?

Here are a list of verses showing us the Old Law is no more:

"When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).

”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).

20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
(Colossians 2:20-23).

“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).

"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).

9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10).

16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17).

”And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).

27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28).

50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).

8 “Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:8-9).

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).

7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).

“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).​

The Old Covenant says this about circumcision:

"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).​

Yet, the New Covenant says this about circumcision:

"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2).​

The Old Covenant says this about the Sabbath:

32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36).​

Yet, the New Covenant says this about the Sabbath:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).​

So it appears things have changed.

This makes sense because Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." (Hebrews 7:12).

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17).​

In conclusion:

You sort of have to look at the Old Covenant (Old Testament) as one contract, and the New Covenant (New Testament) as another contract. It's kind of like a contract when you buy a house. If you did not like certain things in the contract, you could ask them to make some changes in the contract. If they agreed to the changes, you would then go by the new contract, and the old contract for the house would be discarded. There may be some similar things between the old contract, and the new contract, but you stick with the new contract in your dealing with buying the house. Meaning: This is why we seek to follow the New Covenant (New Testament) primarily even though there are certain laws that have carried over from the Old Covenant (Old Testament). We are clearly not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal. We follow the commands that come from Jesus and His followers.

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pescador said:

You're either under law or under grace; there is no middle ground. So if you live by the law you're denying Christ.

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Bible Highlighter said:

It is a study on every appearance of the word “Sabbath” in the New Testament and not one of them even suggests the necessity of how we must keep the Saturday Sabbath command. The Gentile Christians are told that they do not have to keep the Law of Moses (Please see: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

In addition, Colossians 2:16 says we are not to allow others to judge us on whether or not we keep the Sabbaths (Which would naturally include the Saturday Sabbath).

Romans 14:5 is another verse that implies that the Saturday Sabbath is no longer in effect, as well.

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ViaCrucis said:

Your American and world history knowledge needs some serious improvement.

Most of the groups that fled persecution were fleeing predominantly Protestant nations. The official church in England was the Church of England. The English Church hadn't been in communion with Rome since King Henry XIII, and in the time since had undergone various Protestant reforms.

That's where the term "Puritan" comes from, the Puritans were Reformed Protestants who believed the Church of England wasn't Protestant (meaning Reformed Protestant) enough. The Puritan faction wanted to "purify" the English Church, while Separatists wanted to separate entirely from it. Many Puritans chose to live in the Netherlands, whose state Church was officially Reformed. A group of both Puritans and Separatists were able to get a royal charter to found their own colony in Massachusetts

If you think these Puritan settlers were somehow "better" than the people in charge back in England, then you should read up about the Puritans. It is those Puritans who clung to superstitious beliefs in witches, hence they burned innocent women and men as "witches" in the Salem Witch Trials. The Puritans were persecutors, and they persecuted anyone who dissented. This is why Roger Williams, an early Separatist Baptist to leave Massachusetts and start his own colony of Rhode Island, with a founding charter allowing freedom of religion.

The Quakers were one of several major non-Conformist groups in England; and they sought out their own charter to found a colony named after William Penn, Pennsylvania "Penn's land".

And then you also have the English Catholics who wanted their own religious freedom from the Anglican hierarchy, so they founded a colony and named it Maryland.

The various waves of immigrants in the 19th century came for various reasons. The German Lutherans who came to America did so because the Prussian Union forced an ecclesiastical union between the Lutheran and Reformed churches; Lutherans desiring to maintain their Lutheran identity left Prussia and emigrated to America, Canada, and Australia. Most of the Irish immigrants who came were Catholic, but their reasons were economic, due to the hardships of the Potato Famine and the abuses of the English against the Irish.

You are grasping at straw, and flailing wildly because you have neither Scripture nor history to support yourself with.

-CryptoLutheran

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ViaCrucis said:

Quote the Scripture that says the Gentiles were given Torah. This should be interesting.

-CryptoLutheran

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pescador said:

Colossians 2:16-17, " Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day— things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

Jesus said, "What defiles a person is not what goes into the mouth; it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles a person.” Matthew 15:11

Should I believe you or the Lord?

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pescador said:

I don't understand what you're saying. BTW, I (and true Christians) are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:14, "For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace."

Where I'm from, if you're not a (Biblical) law keeper you're a Christian.

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ViaCrucis said:

So where's a good place to get tzitzit added to my clothes (Numbers 15:38-40)? Don't worry, I'll throw away all my blended fabrics first (Deuteronomy 22:11).

Speaking of which, since there's no sanctuary standing in Jerusalem, I'm a bit confused on what to do with these two pigeons. You see my wife just had her period a little late, and so I've sent her out to live in the shed for the last week, but when she comes out we need to get these pigeons to be slaughtered, one as a sin offering and the other as a burnt offering for her impurity (Leviticus 15:28-30).

Speaking of which, it was really hard to get to Jerusalem to the Temple this year over Pesach, as there's no Temple there anymore, do you think God is going to smite me for having failed to go up to the sanctuary on one of His three mandatory pilgrim festivals (Exodus 23:14-17).

Man, this is hard. But if I don't do all these things, then obviously I don't love Jesus, if after all all 613 of God's mitzvot are the commandments Jesus is talking about in John 14:15. And according to you, that's correct, yes?

So that, even though St. Paul writes, "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing" (1 Corinthians 7:19) I can't listen to that, because it is commanded, "And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised" (Leviticus 12:3).

Or is this where you are going to backtrack and tell us that all those are just "ceremonial laws", and the only commandments God really cares about are the Ten Commandments?

Even though Jesus doesn't list any of the 10 commandments as being the Greatest Commandment. But I'm sure we can just conveniently ignore that for now.

-CryptoLutheran

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Michael Collum said:

Any day I need rest, it sure is more than 1 in 7 that's for sure.

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pescador said:

So I should believe your misinterpretation of the Bible over what it clearly says? You're joking!

Mark 7:18-23, "He said to them, “Are you so foolish? Don’t you understand that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him? For it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and then goes out into the sewer.” (This means all foods are clean.) He said, “What comes out of a person defiles him. For from within, out of the human heart, come evil ideas, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, evil, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, pride, and folly. All these evils come from within and defile a person.”

You can't refute the truth of God's word. I would read this again and again until you understand what it clearly says. Romans 9:20a, "But who indeed are you—a mere human being—to talk back to God?"

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