Calvinism in The Shack? :)

Humble_Disciple

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This quote from Wm. Paul Young's The Shack is often interpreted as promoting universalism, but I find it can be used as an illustration of God's irresistible grace:

Jesus adds, “I have no desire to make them Christian, but I do want to join them in their transformation into sons and daughters of my Papa, into my brothers and sisters, my Beloved.” Mack then asks the obvious question – do all roads lead to Christ? Jesus responds, “Most roads don’t lead anywhere. What it does mean is that I will travel any road to find you.”
http://www.covenantpca.net/the-shack/
If you are among God's elect, then He will travel any road, among any nation and tribe, to call you unto Himself. Rather than forcing you, kicking and screaming, into heaven, God's irresistible grace transforms your will and desires, so that you joyfully march on as a child of the Lord.

Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.”


This is from the 1689 London Baptist Confession, which was adapted from the Westminster Confession:

Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word. (John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )
1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith | The Reformed Reader

God can save whoever He pleases, even those who never hear the Gospel, "who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word."


The Shack's story of an Indian princess who gives up her life to save her people can also be interpreted as supporting the doctrine of limited atonement.
Matthew 1:21, Luke 1:68, John 10:11, John 15:13

When reading a work of fiction, it can be interpreted in various ways, regardless of the author's own beliefs. This section of the Shack wonderfully illustrates the Reformed doctrine of salvation by faith alone through grace alone:

“But as I’m sure you know there are many,” responded Mack, “who think they are made righteous by following the rules.”
“But can you clean your face with the same mirror that shows you how dirty you are? There is no mercy or grace in rules, not even for one mistake. That’s why Jesus fulfilled all of it for you—so that it no longer has jurisdiction over you. And the Law that once contained impossible demands—Thou Shall Not . . .—actually becomes a promise we fulfill in you.”
http://benzieacademy.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/49675093/The Shack Novel.pdf

According to Martin Luther and John Calvin, the true purpose of the law is to serve as a mirror of our own sinfulness, so that we will be convicted of our need for a savior. Anything we do out of obedience to the law is in gratitude for, rather than a condition of, our salvation.

This line from the film adaptation of The Shack answers the question of what’s the purpose of prayer if God foreknows everything that comes to pass anyway:

But if you're real... then you already know everything I'm gonna say before I even say it, right?
Yes, but We choose to listen to everything you have to say as if it was for the first time.
Shack, The (2017) - Easter/Spiritual Transcripts - Forever Dreaming

This line from the movie agrees with Calvinism that everything which comes to pass, good and evil, is for God’s ultimate glory, whether we understand it or not:

As difficult as it is for you to accept, I'm in the middle of everything you perceive to be a mess, workin' for your good.
That's what I do.
How can you say that?
After all the pain and suffering in the world, what possible good comes from a little girl being murdered by a sick monster?
See, you may not cause those things, but you certainly don't stop 'em.
Mackenzie, you're trying to make sense of your world based on a very incomplete picture.
It's like looking through the knothole of your pain.
The real underlying flaw in your life is that you don't think that I'm good.
I am!
And if you knew me and how much I love you, then even when you don't understand, you could know that I am at work in your life for good.
And then you would trust me.
https://transcripts.thedealr.net/script.php/the-shack-2017-C3Gw

A lot of the backlash that The Shack received may have been due to sexism and racism. If God can appear as a dove, an angel, a burning bush, pillars of cloud and fire, a baby in a manger, etc., then He can appear as a black woman if He so chooses. Psalm 115:3, Psalm 135:6
 
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Gregory Thompson

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This quote from Wm. Paul Young's The Shack is often interpreted as promoting universalism, but I find it can be used as an illustration of God's irresistible grace:


If you are among God's elect, then He will travel any road, among any nation and tribe, to call you unto Himself. Rather than forcing you, kicking and screaming, into heaven, God's irresistible grace transforms your will and desires, so that you joyfully march on as a child of the Lord.

Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.”
The original book was universalist, but in order for it to be published it was edited for mainstream protestants - so you might find whatever you're looking for in there.
 
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rhomphaeam

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This quote from Wm. Paul Young's The Shack is often interpreted as promoting universalism, but I find it can be used as an illustration of God's irresistible grace:


If you are among God's elect, then He will travel any road, among any nation and tribe, to call you unto Himself. Rather than forcing you, kicking and screaming, into heaven, God's irresistible grace transforms your will and desires, so that you joyfully march on as a child of the Lord.

Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.”

This below link casts some light on things.

The Shack and Universal Reconciliation. - Wm. Paul Young
 
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Humble_Disciple

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The original book was universalist, but in order for it to be published it was edited for mainstream protestants - so you might find whatever you're looking for in there.

The Shack's story of an Indian princess who gives up her life to save her people can also be interpreted as supporting the doctrine of limited atonement.
Matthew 1:21, Luke 1:68, John 10:11, John 15:13
 
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Humble_Disciple

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rhomphaeam

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When reading a work of fiction, it can be interpreted in various ways, regardless of the author's own beliefs.

Sure. Fiction can be interpreted in anyway one wants to interpret it. But surly the dial of the words or if you prefer the direction of words are irresistible rather like some of the fanciful expressions that speak of Irresistible Grace yet claim to be saying Limited Atonement.
 
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timothyu

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"“Most roads don’t lead anywhere. What it does mean is that I will travel any road to find you.”"

Most roads are built by man and lead to man's ways and thinking. They lead nowhere but Jesus is not swayed by man's ways and can travel over the numerous potholes, detours and speed bumps we create blocking passage to the unfamiliar Kingdom while diverting us to things our own familiar earthly character through which we define God's ways using our own terms.
 
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rhomphaeam

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"“Most roads don’t lead anywhere. What it does mean is that I will travel any road to find you.”"

Most roads are built by man and lead to man's ways and thinking. They lead nowhere but Jesus is not swayed by man's ways and can travel over the numerous potholes, detours and speed bumps we create blocking passage to the unfamiliar Kingdom while diverting us to things our own familiar earthly character through which we define God's ways using our own terms.

Could you have made that any less esoteric or mystical? :holy:
 
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Humble_Disciple

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But surly the dial of the words or if you prefer the direction of words are irresistible rather like some of the fanciful expressions that speak of Irresistible Grace yet claim to be saying Limited Atonement.

What do you mean?
 
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Humble_Disciple

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A lot of the backlash that The Shack received may have been due to sexism and racism. If God can appear as a dove, an angel, a burning bush, pillars of cloud and fire, etc., then He can appear as a black woman if He so chooses. Psalm 115:3, Psalm 135:6
 
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Humble_Disciple

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This section of the Shack wonderfully illustrates the Reformed doctrine of salvation by faith alone through grace alone:

“But as I’m sure you know there are many,” responded Mack, “who think they are made righteous by following the rules.”
“But can you clean your face with the same mirror that shows you how dirty you are? There is no mercy or grace in rules, not even for one mistake. That’s why Jesus fulfilled all of it for you—so that it no longer has jurisdiction over you. And the Law that once contained impossible demands—Thou Shall Not . . .—actually becomes a promise we fulfill in you.”
http://benzieacademy.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/49675093/The Shack Novel.pdf

According to Martin Luther and John Calvin, the true purpose of the law is to serve as a mirror of our own sinfulness, so that we will be convicted of our need for a savior. Anything we do out of obedience to the law is in gratitude for, rather than a condition of, our salvation.
 
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rhomphaeam

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What do you mean?

Simply that Paul Young clearly 'hopes' that all men will be saved and hence the universality of his direction. Irresistible Grace is a mere tool of misdirection if it is intentionally used in a meaning that absconds from the reality that many die having heard a sound doctrine of grace and do so refusing Christ.
 
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Humble_Disciple

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Simply that Paul Young clearly 'hopes' that all men will be saved and hence the universality of his direction. Irresistible Grace is a mere tool of misdirection if it is intentionally used in a meaning that absconds from the reality that many die having heard a sound doctrine of grace and do so refusing Christ.

This is from the 1689 London Baptist Confession, which was adapted from the Westminster Confession:

Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word. (John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )
1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith | The Reformed Reader

God can save whoever He pleases, even those who never hear the Gospel, "who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word."
 
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rhomphaeam

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A lot of the backlash that The Shack received may have been due to sexism and racism. If God can appear as a dove, an angel, a burning bush, pillars of cloud and fire, etc., then He can appear as a black woman if He so chooses. Psalm 115:3, Psalm 135:6

God can do as He pleases yet when did it please God to manifest as a woman to save men?
 
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rhomphaeam

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This is from the 1689 London Baptist Confession, which was adapted from the Westminster Confession:



God can save whoever He pleases, even those who never hear the Gospel.

God can and does save whosoever He is pleased to save. This video makes that point singularly well.


It is of course an instant of revival on the Island of Berneray.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I recall back when there was a shack forum, the admin had these hilarious alternate book covers he posted as images - because everyone wanted to read their own theology or non-christian religion into the story of the shack.

It's just that kind of story.
 
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