What about the differences between chimps and humans?

Bungle_Bear · Jun 11, 2021

renniks said:
He wasn't racist because of his time period. He was racist because of his belief in the ToE.

The Bible is inherently racist. What's your point?

Hans Blaster · Jun 11, 2021

renniks said:
It's not that hard to understand. A canine and a feline are not the same kind for example.

Yet you pick the two groups that are the nearest relatives of the other. Both fall into the larger group "Carnivora". Once upon a time, they split into the predecessors of the canines and of the felines.

Hans Blaster · Jun 11, 2021

AV1611VET said:
If I think 7 divided by 0 is 7, I am not a well informed algebraist; but would you say I'm being "intellectually dishonest"?

And if you teach me how algebra works, then I'm now a well informed algebraist; and anyone who would then say, "There are no well informed anti-algebraists," then you are the one that is in error.

For starters, that's not algebra, it's arithmetic.

Hans Blaster · Jun 11, 2021

AV1611VET said:
Cliffs Notes on the Civil War:

the South was pro-slavery

the North was anti-slavery

God broke the tie

I thought that was Sherman who broke the tie. (Both thought god was on their side.)

Occams Barber · Jun 11, 2021

Hans Blaster said:
I thought that was Sherman who broke the tie. (Both thought god was on their side.)

I stumbled on an episode of an Amazon Prime civil war trilogy a couple of nights ago.

The episode, 'God and Generals', focused on Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson as a tediously pious Christian. I'm not sure if this was the intent of the series but I found myself wondering if the production was made specifically for the evangelical market. The issue of slavery was barely mentioned apart from a couple of happy, faithful retainers.

OB

Warden_of_the_Storm · Jun 11, 2021

AV1611VET said:
Okay. What about the Magna Charta?

That has nothing to do with views on race in the Victorian.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Jun 11, 2021

renniks said:
The Romans certainly did just that. Wiped out entire cities.

And also integrated and accepted the nations they conquered into the Roman Empire, joining them together.
The Mongols just murdered, pillaged and raped their way across Asia, Russia and Eastern Europe.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Jun 11, 2021

renniks said:
He wasn't racist because of his time period. He was racist because of his belief in the ToE.

But, no, you are just absolutely flat out, incorrigibly and completely wrong.

Occams Barber · Jun 11, 2021

renniks said:
He wasn't racist because of his time period. He was racist because of his belief in the ToE.

You have a lot to learn about history.

Darwin may have been racist by our standards but he lived in the Victorian era, a time of raging colonialism, the British Empire and the "white man's burden".

Belief in white, mainly British, superiority was rampant and the ubiquity of the Empire proved it. For almost a century Brittania had Ruled the Waves and, by God and St George, Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.

Things change.

OB

AV1611VET · Jun 11, 2021

Occams Barber said:
Darwin may have been racist by our standards but he lived in the Victorian era, a time of raging colonialism, the British Empire and the "white man's burden".

Whether Charles Darwin was racist or not (this is actually news to me), the Victorians should have listened to Charles Spurgeon, who was probably the greatest preacher who ever lived outside of the New Testament era.

Occams Barber · Jun 11, 2021

AV1611VET said:
Whether Charles Darwin was racist or not (this is actually news to me), the Victorians should have listened to Charles Spurgeon, who was probably the greatest preacher who ever lived outside of the New Testament era.

Really?

How often did you hear Charlie preach and with whom are you comparing him?

OB

AV1611VET · Jun 11, 2021

Occams Barber said:
Really?

Yes, really.

Occams Barber said:
How often did you hear Charlie preach and with whom are you comparing him?

I didn't hear him preach, and I'm comparing him to all other preachers outside of the Twelve Apostles.

That Guy 11200 · Jun 11, 2021

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
And also integrated and accepted the nations they conquered into the Roman Empire, joining them together.
The Mongols just murdered, pillaged and raped their way across Asia, Russia and Eastern Europe.

That's a rather 'fluffy bunny' view of Rome.

o_mlly · Jun 11, 2021

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
Except that Darwin wasn't being racist on purpose. The Victorian era was not a period where racial equality was a thing, and while Darwin does show the racial thinking of that time period, that's not unusual nor him being an outlier.

Good point. Only mavericks buck the trend while the orthodox follow the herd.

Except that _______ wasn't being AN EVOLUTIONIST on purpose. The POST MODERN era was not a period where RELIGION was a thing, and while _______ does show the EVOLUTIONARY thinking of that time period, that's not unusual nor him being an outlier.

renniks · Jun 11, 2021

Shemjaza said:
Do you have a coherent point about Darwin being racist?

It's completely irrelevant to the evidence for the Theory of Evolution.

Wernher von Braun was a Nazi, but that doesn't mean that rockets are fake.

If you don't understand the connection I suppose it's pointless to try and explain it to you.

renniks · Jun 11, 2021

Hans Blaster said:
Yet you pick the two groups that are the nearest relatives of the other. Both fall into the larger group "Carnivora". Once upon a time, they split into the predecessors of the canines and of the felines.

Says you. The supposed ancestor looked like a fisher. That is, the few teeth and ankle bones did. Assuming they even came from the same animal, we don't really know that it's anything but an extinct animal that's a bit bigger than a house cat.

renniks · Jun 11, 2021

Occams Barber said:
You have a lot to learn about history.

Darwin may have been racist by our standards but he lived in the Victorian era, a time of raging colonialism, the British Empire and the "white man's burden".

Belief in white, mainly British, superiority was rampant and the ubiquity of the Empire proved it. For almost a century Brittania had Ruled the Waves and, by God and St George, Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.

Things change.

OB

Still totally missed the point.

renniks · Jun 11, 2021

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
And also integrated and accepted the nations they conquered into the Roman Empire, joining them together.
The Mongols just murdered, pillaged and raped their way across Asia, Russia and Eastern Europe.

Well yeah, Nations tend to integrate well after you kill enough of them. The Roman empire was barbaric. They literally hacked people apart for entertainment. You might want to find a better example of a civilized nation ...

Frank Robert · Jun 11, 2021

renniks said:
Since I've never used even one childish meme, you are baring false witness. I will look forward to your apology.

Nothing to apologizefor but I would be happy to accommodate you if you apologize for your demeaning a science with false characterizations.

Frank Robert · Jun 11, 2021

renniks said:
Oh it gets worse.
The Melbourne Review used Darwin’s teachings to justify the genocide of indigenous Australians in 1876, and he didn’t try and stop them.

The Australian newspaper argued that “the inexorable law of natural selection [justifies] exterminating the inferior Australian and Maori races”—that “the world is better for it” since failure to do so would be “promoting the non-survival of the fittest, protecting the propagation of the imprudent, the diseased, the defective, and the criminal”—it was Christian missionaries who raised an outcry on behalf of this forgotten genocide. Darwin simply commented, “I do not know of a more striking instance of the comparative rate of increase of a civilized over a savage race.”

Whether he was racist may reflect on his character but unless you can document differently his unique contributions to science still stand.
Should we judge people of past eras for moral failings?

What might our flaws be? Our treatment of the environment? Our tolerance of poverty?

What about the differences between chimps and humans?

Whoot!

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