Florida governor signs bill barring social media companies from blocking political candidates

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
24,712
14,593
Here
✟1,206,494.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
They are being banned because those platforms -- like this one -- have explicit Terms of Service, and clear penalties for violating them... which the perpetrators did with impunity.

Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.... the gist is the same: no racism, no inappropriate content, no encouraging illegal or violent acts. Break the rules, face the consequences -- that goes for you, me, Donald, President Biden...anyone.

Now, if it could be demonstrated that one side is being punished more than the other, and not simply because one side is committing more infractions than the other, then we have an issue that needs to be addressed. AFAIK, that has not been the case.

There's a couple interesting issues at play there...

The primary one is that if the private entity controls the terms of service, they can employ very lax standards (or just minimize enforcement) in the beginning to get the most people hooked on their platform and corner the market, then really tighten down those terms of service and ratchet up the enforcement (in a way that can favor one side over the other) once they have the predominant platform.

So for instance, in theory, one could build up the predominant platform, and then once they already had 90% the market share, modify the ToS to state "there will be no promotion of universal healthcare".

Now the argument that's presented by platform-supporters is "the rules are the same for everybody"...but that's a pretty weak argument as the rules (while technically the "same" for everyone) clearly benefit one side by allowing them to promote their position on privatized healthcare, while restricting the other side from being able to provide the counter-point.

Tim Pool actually had an interesting conversation with the Twitter Exec's about this on Rogan's podcast


For example, Donald was booted off Facebook and Twitter for his continued support and endorsement of the violent January 6 riot. Anyone who followed his postings with any regularity (the man had more flagged tweets than electoral votes) would think that had he not been POTUS, his account would have been suspended months, if not years ago. He was given ample warnings to abide by the rules of the social media sites he signed up to; he chose not to.

I think it goes without saying that his ban was well-deserved.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: DaisyDay
Upvote 0

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

My dad died 1/12/2023. I'm still devastated.
Jul 1, 2007
17,286
5,060
Native Land
✟332,054.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Maybe if Trump, many political-candidates political commentator wouldn't lie and brainwash people on social medias and news stations. Social medias wouldn't have to block Trump and political-candidates . That complete lies and try to brainwash people.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jamsie
Upvote 0

TLK Valentine

I've already read the books you want burned.
Apr 15, 2012
64,493
30,319
Behind the 8-ball, but ahead of the curve.
✟541,512.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
There's a couple interesting issues at play there...

The primary one is that if the private entity controls the terms of service, they can employ very lax standards (or just minimize enforcement) in the beginning to get the most people hooked on their platform and corner the market, then really tighten down those terms of service and ratchet up the enforcement (in a way that can favor one side over the other) once they have the predominant platform.

So for instance, in theory, one could build up the predominant platform, and then once they already had 90% the market share, modify the ToS to state "there will be no promotion of universal healthcare".

Indeed, they could do that -- and then people leave that platform in droves, and then they are no longer the predominant platform.

I don't recall signing a contract for Facebook or Twitter; do you? We can leave it at any time if the rules become intolerable.


Now the argument that's presented by platform-supporters is "the rules are the same for everybody"...but that's a pretty weak argument as the rules (while technically the "same" for everyone) clearly benefit one side by allowing them to promote their position on privatized healthcare, while restricting the other side from being able to provide the counter-point.

Whereas it's not a bad argument at all here in the real world, where one side is allowed to promote anti-racist, anti-sexist, and anti-transphobic messages, and the opposition cannot lest running afoul of the TOS...which have not changed since they signed up.
 
Upvote 0

ArmenianJohn

Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist
Jan 30, 2013
8,962
5,551
New Jersey (NYC Metro)
✟205,252.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
There's a couple interesting issues at play there...

The primary one is that if the private entity controls the terms of service, they can employ very lax standards (or just minimize enforcement) in the beginning to get the most people hooked on their platform and corner the market, then really tighten down those terms of service and ratchet up the enforcement (in a way that can favor one side over the other) once they have the predominant platform.

So for instance, in theory, one could build up the predominant platform, and then once they already had 90% the market share, modify the ToS to state "there will be no promotion of universal healthcare".

Now the argument that's presented by platform-supporters is "the rules are the same for everybody"...but that's a pretty weak argument as the rules (while technically the "same" for everyone) clearly benefit one side by allowing them to promote their position on privatized healthcare, while restricting the other side from being able to provide the counter-point.

Tim Pool actually had an interesting conversation with the Twitter Exec's about this on Rogan's podcast




I think it goes without saying that his ban was well-deserved.
Interesting - a conservative/libertarian admitting that the open market doesn't work and that government regulation is required to tell private businesses what their rules can or can't do because the market is incapable of regulating itself.

Or is the message that it's only in this one situation, which happens to be to the detriment of the conservatives/Republicans, where the market is not working and strict government regulation is needed but other than this government should stay out of everything else? The ever-shifting goalposts of conservatism and libertarianism are so hard to keep up with.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Kentonio

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2018
7,467
10,458
48
Lyon
✟266,564.00
Country
France
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
There's a couple interesting issues at play there...

The primary one is that if the private entity controls the terms of service, they can employ very lax standards (or just minimize enforcement) in the beginning to get the most people hooked on their platform and corner the market, then really tighten down those terms of service and ratchet up the enforcement (in a way that can favor one side over the other) once they have the predominant platform.

So for instance, in theory, one could build up the predominant platform, and then once they already had 90% the market share, modify the ToS to state "there will be no promotion of universal healthcare".

Now the argument that's presented by platform-supporters is "the rules are the same for everybody"...but that's a pretty weak argument as the rules (while technically the "same" for everyone) clearly benefit one side by allowing them to promote their position on privatized healthcare, while restricting the other side from being able to provide the counter-point.

Tim Pool actually had an interesting conversation with the Twitter Exec's about this on Rogan's podcast

The argument is that if one business imposes undue burdens on freedom of speech, then other businesses are more than welcome to come in and take market share off them. If you feel that the likes of Twitter & Facebook have reached monopoly status, then surely the first question is why their position is supposedly incontestable within the free market? If conservatives genuinely cannot express their legal speech freely, then why isn't a rival service currently enjoying a userbase in the tens of millions catering to these people?

It's been asked multiple times in this thread, and it keeps being avoided. If someone wants to make sweeping changes to social media rules then the least they should be expected to do is answer that question first.
 
Upvote 0

lasthero

Newbie
Jul 30, 2013
11,421
5,793
✟229,457.00
Faith
Seeker
The argument is that if one business imposes undue burdens on freedom of speech, then other businesses are more than welcome to come in and take market share off them. If you feel that the likes of Twitter & Facebook have reached monopoly status, then surely the first question is why their position is supposedly incontestable within the free market? If conservatives genuinely cannot express their legal speech freely, then why isn't a rival service currently enjoying a userbase in the tens of millions catering to these people?

It is kind of fascinating to watch how conservative alternatives fair. Every time someplace like Parler or Rumble starts to gain traction, we hear from conservatives how they're all going to leave Twitter or YouTube and make their rivals more popular, how they're going to become true competition, how silly those 'liberal platforms' are for shunning their conservative userbase...but that never happens. Places like Rumble and Parler see a brief boost in popularity, then drop off fast, while the sites they're trying to replace barely see any dip, if anything at all. Remember how Trump keeps saying he took millions of users off Twitter when he was banned? Yeah, that didn't happen.

And what's more, the conservative alternatives aren't even used as much as their counterparts. I forget the exact numbers, but I seem to recall that the average user on Rumble only stays on the site for less than two minutes, which is kind of pathetic for a streaming site - for comparison, the average YouTube user is on there for about twenty minutes a visit, which is at least long enough to watch one or two average videos. It's about the same with Parler vs. Twitter. So not only are conservatives not flocking to those sites as much as they'd like to think they are, but the one that do use them don't use them all that much.

I'm not sure why it's like that, but I've an inkling its in the way they brand themselves. I remember Rob was talking earlier about how liberals would feel if it was Parler that was super popular and banning liberals left and right, but that can't really happen, I think. In order for a place like Parler to ever get as popular as Twitter, it would have to appeal to the wider worldwide audience that Twitter does in the way that Twitter does, and at that point, it's not even really Parler anymore - it's just Twitter with a different coat of paint.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ArmenianJohn
Upvote 0

trunks2k

Contributor
Jan 26, 2004
11,369
3,520
41
✟270,241.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
In order for a place like Parler to ever get as popular as Twitter, it would have to appeal to the wider worldwide audience that Twitter does in the way that Twitter does, and at that point, it's not even really Parler anymore - it's just Twitter with a different coat of paint.

Yes, what makes Parler attractive to a certain group of people is something that makes it unattractive to a much wider audience.
 
Upvote 0

Kentonio

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2018
7,467
10,458
48
Lyon
✟266,564.00
Country
France
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Yes, what makes Parler attractive to a certain group of people is something that makes it unattractive to a much wider audience.

And that's the funniest thing about the whole thing. Conservatives don't just want a place to speak freely, they already have an almost countless number of those online. What they want it a place where vast numbers of other people will listen to them, and the anger comes from not being able to accept that what they have to say just isn't that popular.
 
Upvote 0

TLK Valentine

I've already read the books you want burned.
Apr 15, 2012
64,493
30,319
Behind the 8-ball, but ahead of the curve.
✟541,512.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
And that's the funniest thing about the whole thing. Conservatives don't just want a place to speak freely, they already have an almost countless number of those online. What they want it a place where vast numbers of other people will listen to them, and the anger comes from not being able to accept that what they have to say just isn't that popular.

So of course, their default reaction is to punish the institutions that won't submit to them... while simultaneously playing the victim.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: ArmenianJohn
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Pommer

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic
Sep 13, 2008
16,582
10,420
Earth
✟142,483.00
Country
United States
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
And that's the funniest thing about the whole thing. Conservatives don't just want a place to speak freely, they already have an almost countless number of those online. What they want it a place where vast numbers of other people will listen to them, and the anger comes from not being able to accept that what they have to say just isn't that popular.
When anger is your only motivator it becomes “necessary”.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: ArmenianJohn
Upvote 0

ArmenianJohn

Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist
Jan 30, 2013
8,962
5,551
New Jersey (NYC Metro)
✟205,252.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
And that's the funniest thing about the whole thing. Conservatives don't just want a place to speak freely, they already have an almost countless number of those online. What they want it a place where vast numbers of other people will listen to them, and the anger comes from not being able to accept that what they have to say just isn't that popular.
You've nailed it, and it's the elephant (no pun intended?) in the room.

The behaviors I see from many conservatives seems to be confrontational and thrives on that confrontation. I was recently talking with my sister and we noted how we've seen so many Trump supporters with their vehicles decked out with Trump and "patriotic" stuff all over and we rarely see the same from people of other political groups. The most over the top Biden supporter I've seen wasn't half as outlandish as the most over the top Trump supporters I've seen. We also noticed they like to bring up politics in conversation even when you're avoiding it and then they don't want to let it go.

I think they tend to look for confrontation. It's not just enough to express their views, most of these people are looking for a reaction, and many of them are looking to escalate that reaction into a confrontation.

And I think that's why we see this phenomenon where they wail in outrage over the Facebooks and Twitters of the world while remaining the most loyal users/customers of the very same. As much as they have a purpose for their echo chambers they also want to go "into the field" and fight the battle they perceive themselves to be in.
 
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
24,712
14,593
Here
✟1,206,494.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
The argument is that if one business imposes undue burdens on freedom of speech, then other businesses are more than welcome to come in and take market share off them. If you feel that the likes of Twitter & Facebook have reached monopoly status, then surely the first question is why their position is supposedly incontestable within the free market? If conservatives genuinely cannot express their legal speech freely, then why isn't a rival service currently enjoying a userbase in the tens of millions catering to these people?

I think the "why don't you just build your own Twitter?" rationale fell flat, as once Twitter and Facebook can build relationships with webhosting companies and device providers, they can absolutely sabotage un-and-comers. (as we've seen with a few rival platforms)

It's hard to build a platform, when other players are being encouraged to suspend your webhosting, and every major device provider starts suspending your app from their app markets.

Not to mention, that rationale was never embraced by many on the left until the conversation became about Twitter/Facebook censoring certain conservative viewpoints.

Once a certain level of control over a particular market is established by a few private entities, it becomes nearly impossible to break your way into that market if a 100% laissez faire system is being adhered to.

Which is why we have certain laws in place aimed at preventing that sort of monopolistic behavior in several other industries.
 
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
24,712
14,593
Here
✟1,206,494.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Indeed, they could do that -- and then people leave that platform in droves, and then they are no longer the predominant platform.

I don't recall signing a contract for Facebook or Twitter; do you? We can leave it at any time if the rules become intolerable.

Unless Twitter decides to collude with Amazon/Apple/Google to keep rival platforms out of the way.

Twitter and Facebook have gotten to the level where they are the new "public square" with regards to expression.

One candidate having access to it, and another not, could determine election outcomes.


To make an analogy, if we swap out the players, and the subject matter, the flaws with the "if you don't like it, you can leave" mentality (which I hate when conservatives say it with the love it or leave it rhetoric)

Pretend that the Catholic Church became even more powerful than they already are...to the point where all of the property developers, builders, plumbers, electricians, etc... took their queues from them.

It'd be tough to form a competing church if you can't tap into any of those services, so simply telling dissenters "if you don't like it, build your own church" isn't an adequate answer.

Saying "you're free to go to any church you want if you don't like the catholic church" is hardly "freedom of religion" if the entity "in power" has already made all of the right partnerships in order to prevent anyone else from competing with you.


These major tech companies are in the unique position in that they came about during the infancy of certain technologies, and when you "get in on the ground floor", you can build a massive user base before anyone else has even gotten off the ground.

It's the reason why, despite decades going by, there really aren't a lot of competing operating systems out there for computers. People have gotten used to Windows and MacOS by that point, and aren't keen on switching (even if there's something about the service they may not be crazy about)....

For instance, as someone who works in the tech field, I'm very familiar with Windows and Mac (and the things about them I'm not crazy about, and the privacy concerns), however, all of the apps I want to use, games I want to play, etc... are basically available on those two platforms (and maybe a few Linux distros if you're lucky).

Simply saying "write your own operating system" or "just find a different one to use" isn't a feasible response.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
24,712
14,593
Here
✟1,206,494.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others

What happened to Parler?
(to clarify, I'm not a fan of the types of folks who frequent that platform, which is why I would never join it)

They had been hosting the same type of content for quite some time... it wasn't until a massive number of people left Twitter for Parler, that all of the sudden Amazon killed their webhosting, and Apple and Android removed the app for it from their marketplace.

...and then when Parler was shutdown, and the users switched from that to MeWe, Gab, Locals, and Rumble, then all of the sudden articles started popping up about how "problematic" those platforms were.

Now, all of this could be solved quite easily...

Simply set the standard of
"If you want to exercise editorial discretion, you're a publisher, not a platform...and therefore, don't get to enjoy the benefits of being a platform"

For instance, when Twitter uses the rationale "we're a publisher, we can't be held responsible for what users post" in response to backlash from this:
341631_875395db335b6b11486cb24cde3dc0e8.png
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,641
18,537
Orlando, Florida
✟1,260,817.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Politics
US-Democrat
The argument is that if one business imposes undue burdens on freedom of speech, then other businesses are more than welcome to come in and take market share off them. If you feel that the likes of Twitter & Facebook have reached monopoly status, then surely the first question is why their position is supposedly incontestable within the free market? If conservatives genuinely cannot express their legal speech freely, then why isn't a rival service currently enjoying a userbase in the tens of millions catering to these people?

It's been asked multiple times in this thread, and it keeps being avoided. If someone wants to make sweeping changes to social media rules then the least they should be expected to do is answer that question first.

It's bullying behavior, pure and simple. Republicans now feel entitled to social spaces and influence, even when they have not deserved it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ArmenianJohn
Upvote 0

lasthero

Newbie
Jul 30, 2013
11,421
5,793
✟229,457.00
Faith
Seeker
They had been hosting the same type of content for quite some time... it wasn't until a massive number of people left Twitter for Parler, that all of the sudden Amazon killed their webhosting, and Apple and Android removed the app for it from their marketplace.

A 'massive number'? How many is a 'massive number?

Because, as far as I can tell, there's been no mass migration of Twitter users to Parler. While it's true that Parler did get a boost around January, that didn't correspond with any real dip in Twitter's userbase. It's been steady around the 6 to 7 billion mark for hits in the past few months. Even at its peak, Parler wasn't getting 1/100 of that. It's not a threat to Twitter, it's never been.

The idea that Twitter fears Parler to the point where they would have to go out of their way to torpedo it strikes me as silly. It'd be like McDonald's deciding that they suddenly need to take down Five Guys or something.

Despite what Trump supporters seem to think, they don't represent that big a chunk of Twitter's userbase. Even if they all decided to just leave Twitter cold turkey and go straight to Parler, that wouldn't affect Twitter all that much, because Twitter attracts users all around the globe while Parler mostly attracts users from one political party in one country. If you compare their traffic from around the world, the difference is clear. The US only accounts for about 25% of Twitter's hits, while it makes up about 75% of Parler's. In non-English speaking countries, Parler barely exists.

...and then when Parler was shutdown, and the users switched from that to MeWe, Gab, Locals, and Rumble, then all of the sudden articles started popping up about how "problematic" those platforms were.

People post articles about all kinds of things. Have they been taken down? Because if not, I don't see how that strengthens your point.

"If you want to exercise editorial discretion, you're a publisher, not a platform...and therefore, don't get to enjoy the benefits of being a platform"
So what, exactly, are the 'benefits of being a platform'?
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: ArmenianJohn
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

TLK Valentine

I've already read the books you want burned.
Apr 15, 2012
64,493
30,319
Behind the 8-ball, but ahead of the curve.
✟541,512.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Unless Twitter decides to collude with Amazon/Apple/Google to keep rival platforms out of the way.

Or the Girl Scouts, or the Post Office, or the little green men from Mars...

Twitter and Facebook have gotten to the level where they are the new "public square" with regards to expression.

and who let them become so influential? The public.
meaning who has the power to take that influence away? The public.

But of course, if the social media companies got too intolerable, we can't let the public act on its own to correct them... that would be "cancel culture," don't you know...

upload_2021-5-29_4-10-34.jpeg


No, no, no... the "public square" must be brought under government control... it's far too dangerous to entrust to the public.

One candidate having access to it, and another not, could determine election outcomes.

Then I strongly recommend that every candidate follow the rules and Terms of Service if they don't want to sabotage their campaign.

To make an analogy, if we swap out the players, and the subject matter, the flaws with the "if you don't like it, you can leave" mentality (which I hate when conservatives say it with the love it or leave it rhetoric)

Pretend that the Catholic Church became even more powerful than they already are...to the point where all of the property developers, builders, plumbers, electricians, etc... took their queues from them.

We don't need to pretend; just remember -- there was a time the Church had such influence... and a whole lot more.

It'd be tough to form a competing church if you can't tap into any of those services, so simply telling dissenters "if you don't like it, build your own church" isn't an adequate answer.

Martin Luther managed to get it done... back when the Catholic Church literally had the power to have you executed by the state.

Forming a Church shouldn't be easy under any circumstances... neither should running for office.

Political candidates kowtow to 1. corporate bigshots, 2. uberwealthy potential donors, and 3. special interest groups every single day and half this country not only approves, but actively fights attempts to change it.

Social Media companies are all three of these things at once, and now, all of a sudden, there's a problem... but only with them; the others are still just peachy.

Yeah... sell that somewhere else; I ain't buying it.

Saying "you're free to go to any church you want if you don't like the catholic church" is hardly "freedom of religion" if the entity "in power" has already made all of the right partnerships in order to prevent anyone else from competing with you.

Again, a long time ago in Western civilization, the Catholic Church was exactly like that.

They lost their power when the people turned away from it; not because the government rode in to their rescue.

And that was The Church -- the institution which, so they like to claim, hold the literal and figurative keys to the Kingdom of Heaven...

If they can lose their influence, so can Facebook.

These major tech companies are in the unique position in that they came about during the infancy of certain technologies, and when you "get in on the ground floor", you can build a massive user base before anyone else has even gotten off the ground.

There is absolutely nothing unique about that position. The first person to do just about anything has the advantage by being the first.

Fun Fact: do you know why Hollywood, of all places, became known as the motion picture capital of the world? Why that particular location was chosen? The weather allowed for more outdoor shooting, and more importantly, it was literally as far as you could get from New Jersey.

You see, motion picture technology was invented in 1888 by Thomas Edison, whose workshop was in Menlo Park, New Jersey. That meant that if you wanted to be in the movie business, you had to work for Edison.

Now, by all accounts, Edison was not a pleasant man to work for, so his competitors packed up and headed west... a few decades later, "Hollywoodland" became the face of American cinema...not Menlo Park, NJ.

So you see, it can be done, and has been.

It's the reason why, despite decades going by, there really aren't a lot of competing operating systems out there for computers. People have gotten used to Windows and MacOS by that point, and aren't keen on switching (even if there's something about the service they may not be crazy about)....

And yet there are competing systems... Windows, Mac, Linux, ChromeOS, Tails... Now, if you want to claim that these companies have engaged in shady monopolistic practices, I'm the last person who will argue. But to focus only on social media? You're chipping away at the dragon's toenails because you're afraid to face its teeth.

For instance, as someone who works in the tech field, I'm very familiar with Windows and Mac (and the things about them I'm not crazy about, and the privacy concerns), however, all of the apps I want to use, games I want to play, etc... are basically available on those two platforms (and maybe a few Linux distros if you're lucky).

And that's a financial issue for the app designers... if there were a hundred different operating systems, they'd have to literally rewrite a hundred different versions of their app. How much would that cost them?


Simply saying "write your own operating system" or "just find a different one to use" isn't a feasible response.

But starting ones own social media company is a feasible response... Gab and Parler are proof that it can be done... perhaps they'll be as successful as Hollywoodland was.

But if it's not, before we cry "collusion!" let's first make sure it was done competently. Mike Lindell's "Frank Speech" is a good example of how not to do it... i.e., stupidly.
 
Upvote 0