Christ gave his life as a ransom

Victor in Christ said:

The kidnapper would be sin and Satan is the owner and author of sin ???

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Do not blame satan for your sins. He might be the author, but you are the performer by choice of what he wrote.

bling said:

Do not blame satan for your sins. He might be the author, but you are the performer by choice of what he wrote.

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Your post is dangerous and unbiblical. sure, i might as well whip my back into shreads with a cat of 9-tails when Satan tempts me....(oh no, its not Satan according to you, its me)

When Jesus told Peter to 'get behind me Satan' was he talking to 'free-willed' Peter or Satan? when he called the Pharisees and scribes 'snakes and vipers' was he talking them or who controlled them?

In Ephesians 6:12 who does Paul say we struggle against? 'free-willed' man or Satan?

Victor in Christ said:

Your post is dangerous and unbiblical. sure, i might as well whip my back into shreads with a cat of 9-tails when Satan tempts me....(oh no, its not Satan according to you, its me)

When Jesus told Peter to 'get behind me Satan' was he talking to 'free-willed' Peter or Satan? when he called the Pharisees and scribes 'snakes and vipers' was he talking them or who controlled them?

In Ephesians 6:12 who does Paul say we struggle against? 'free-willed' man or Satan?

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We are the onces struggling and since we cannot beat powerful spiritual beings we seek help and God is willing to help us. The free will does not allow us to win, but the free will to allow the Spirit to win causes the win. We can quench the Spirit and go to battle on our own, but we will loss.

Are you saying Eve is not to blame for her sinning, but we should blame satan?

Did Peter sin by what he said or was it satan?

bling said:

Are you saying Eve is not to blame for her sinning, but we should blame satan?

Did Peter sin by what he said or was it satan?

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its was Satan within the person and Satan is still going to and fro about the earth trying to deceive. Thankfully he's not omnipresent to the believer, he does try to take hold of the believer's thought, words and deeds. We must James 4:7. Satan tempted Christ but was unsuccessful, he'll continue to tempt us till Christ takes us home to Glory.

Victor in Christ said:

its was Satan within the person and Satan is still going to and fro about the earth trying to deceive. Thankfully he's not omnipresent to the believer, he does try to take hold of the believer's thought, words and deeds. We must James 4:7. Satan tempted Christ but was unsuccessful, he'll continue to tempt us till Christ takes us home to Glory.

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If you have the indwelling Holy Spirit living in you unquenched can satan indwell you?
Did satan indwell Eve?

zoidar said:

Ransom? How do we understand this, that Christ gave his life as a ransom? A ransom is a price someone pays to the kidnappers, for them to let go of the captives.

The Greek word used is: Lütron

"just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
— Matthew 20:28

Maybe some of you got a bigger insight?

Christ love!

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Jesus is the Lamb. Jesus is the Man or male. The Scriptures actually prescribe the requirement once (just one time - checked with bible searches for about an hour) to that sacrifice of a male lamb and smear the blood over the door. When? During passover when the Jews and Egypt was subjected to the Angel of Death for the firstborns.

The male lamb was ransom for the sparing of the Jewish firstborns. Inheritors of the Promises of God.
The Male Lamb was ransom for the sparing of the inheritors of the Promises of God as we are His children by the blessings of Jesus.

I think the idea is the ransom was paid to "natural law." It's a worthy analogy though.

zoidar said:

Ransom? How do we understand this, that Christ gave his life as a ransom? A ransom is a price someone pays to the kidnappers, for them to let go of the captives.

The Greek word used is: Lütron

"just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
— Matthew 20:28

Maybe some of you got a bigger insight?

Christ love!

Click to expand...

It was'nt to satan, it was to God.

God The Son Paid Our Debt To God The Father, YAHWEH!

zoidar said:

Ransom? How do we understand this, that Christ gave his life as a ransom? A ransom is a price someone pays to the kidnappers, for them to let go of the captives.

The Greek word used is: Lütron

"just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
— Matthew 20:28

Maybe some of you got a bigger insight?

Christ love!

Click to expand...

Ransom here is not based on the example of paying off a kidnapper, but of a redemption price
from the Laws of Inheritance in the Torah for someone who surrendered their possessions due to
dire economic circumstances.
It is prominent in the story of Ruth and Boaz, and the inheritance of Ruth's deceased husband
redeemed by Boaz.
It is foreshadowed in the Torah by the year of release, pertaining to forgiveness of debts and the release from bond-servitude, every seven years. Even more so, the year of Jubilee every 50 years.
Leviticus 25:
23 The land shall not be sold permanently, for the land is Mine; for you are strangers and sojourners with Me.
24 And in all the land of your possession you shall grant redemption of the land.
25 If one of your brethren becomes poor, and has sold some of his possession, and if his redeeming relative comes to redeem it, then he may redeem what his brother sold.
26 Or if the man has no one to redeem it, but he himself becomes able to redeem it,
27 then let him count the years since its sale, and restore the remainder to the man to whom he
sold it, that he may return to his possession.
28 But if he is not able to have it restored to himself, then what was sold shall remain in the hand
of him who bought it until the Year of Jubilee; and in the Jubilee it shall be released, and he shall
return to his possession.
29 If a man sells a house in a walled city, then he may redeem it within a whole year after it is sold; within a full year he may redeem it.
30 But if it is not redeemed within the space of a full year, then the house in the walled city shall belong permanently to him who bought it, throughout his generations. It shall not be released in the Jubilee.
31 However the houses of villages which have no wall around them shall be counted as the fields
of the country. They may be redeemed, and they shall be released in the Jubilee.
32 Nevertheless the cities of the Levites, and the houses in the cities of their possession, the Levites may redeem at any time.
33 And if a man purchases a house from the Levites, then the house that was sold in the city of his possession shall be released in the Jubilee; for the houses in the cities of the Levites are their possession among the children of Israel.
34 But the field of the common-land of their cities may not be sold, for it is their perpetual possession.

Victor in Christ said:

its was Satan within the person and Satan is still going to and fro about the earth trying to deceive. Thankfully he's not omnipresent to the believer, he does try to take hold of the believer's thought, words and deeds. We must James 4:7. Satan tempted Christ but was unsuccessful, he'll continue to tempt us till Christ takes us home to Glory.

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I never read a scripture that stated satan is inside a person, in fact, The Scripture says "satan entered Peter." So you have to be carefull when saying someone's post's not Biblical when what your saying is UnScripturak and The Scripture does not back you up.

There are esoteric texts that fall under the classification of satanic literature that refer to satan as an atavism, but I would be Curious to know how or why you know about satanic concept's and are relating them to The Bible's Scripture?

_Paladin_ said:

I think the idea is the ransom was paid to "natural law." It's a worthy analogy though.

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When the "Ransom Theory of Atonement" first came up either in the second or third century, kidnapping and asking for a ransom was standard proctice since there were no banks, people did not keep cash, but had it invested in land, cattle, ships, and other valuable items. It took time to convert these items to cash. Also at this time, writers talked about a war in heaven between God and satan with satan taking captives, so ransoms might be needed.
We know today there is no "war" in heaven and there is no cosmic/natural "law" requiring a ransom payment. God does not owe anyone anything, God is powerful enough to take anything from satan without paying him.
Jesus Christ and Him crucified is being offered to the nonbelieving sinner and if he rejects that offer a child is kept from entering God's (the child's father) Kingdom, but if the nonbelieving sinner does accept Jesus Christ and Him crucified a child is freed to enter the kingdom. Will Jesus Christ and Him crucified is described by Jesus and others as the ransom payment, so who is the criminal kidnapper holding that child out of the Kingdom?

Chi.C said:

Jesus is the Lamb. Jesus is the Man or male. The Scriptures actually prescribe the requirement once (just one time - checked with bible searches for about an hour) to that sacrifice of a male lamb and smear the blood over the door. When? During passover when the Jews and Egypt was subjected to the Angel of Death for the firstborns.

The male lamb was ransom for the sparing of the Jewish firstborns. Inheritors of the Promises of God.
The Male Lamb was ransom for the sparing of the inheritors of the Promises of God as we are His children by the blessings of Jesus.

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That makes the “first born child” worth only a lamb’s life, which is pretty cheap don’t you think?

Can you find where the male lamb is being referred to as a ransom?

Where is “sin” involved in all this?

The Passover celebration took on the remembrance of God freeing all the Israelites from Egypt, much more then the death of the first born of Egypt, so are you finding the Jews talking about the Lamb as a ransom?

Jesusfann777888 said:

It was'nt to satan, it was to God.

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So you see God as the criminal kidnapper taking an undeserving ransom payment?

Jesusfann777888 said:

God The Son Paid Our Debt To God The Father, YAHWEH!

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A forgiven debt for intangables like offending God has no "payment", but can only be forgiven.

Minister Monardo said:

Ransom here is not based on the example of paying off a kidnapper, but of a redemption price
from the Laws of Inheritance in the Torah for someone who surrendered their possessions due to
dire economic circumstances.
It is prominent in the story of Ruth and Boaz, and the inheritance of Ruth's deceased husband
redeemed by Boaz.
It is foreshadowed in the Torah by the year of release, pertaining to forgiveness of debts and the release from bond-servitude, every seven years. Even more so, the year of Jubilee every 50 years.
Leviticus 25:
23 The land shall not be sold permanently, for the land is Mine; for you are strangers and sojourners with Me.
24 And in all the land of your possession you shall grant redemption of the land.
25 If one of your brethren becomes poor, and has sold some of his possession, and if his redeeming relative comes to redeem it, then he may redeem what his brother sold.
26 Or if the man has no one to redeem it, but he himself becomes able to redeem it,
27 then let him count the years since its sale, and restore the remainder to the man to whom he
sold it, that he may return to his possession.
28 But if he is not able to have it restored to himself, then what was sold shall remain in the hand
of him who bought it until the Year of Jubilee; and in the Jubilee it shall be released, and he shall
return to his possession.
29 If a man sells a house in a walled city, then he may redeem it within a whole year after it is sold; within a full year he may redeem it.
30 But if it is not redeemed within the space of a full year, then the house in the walled city shall belong permanently to him who bought it, throughout his generations. It shall not be released in the Jubilee.
31 However the houses of villages which have no wall around them shall be counted as the fields
of the country. They may be redeemed, and they shall be released in the Jubilee.
32 Nevertheless the cities of the Levites, and the houses in the cities of their possession, the Levites may redeem at any time.
33 And if a man purchases a house from the Levites, then the house that was sold in the city of his possession shall be released in the Jubilee; for the houses in the cities of the Levites are their possession among the children of Israel.
34 But the field of the common-land of their cities may not be sold, for it is their perpetual possession.

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Jesus used only the very best words to best communicate to the audience He was addressing, so they could understand at least the earthly meaning of the story or message. Jesus used the word “ransom” in private to his disciples after saying he did not come to be served but to serve.

Jesus is talking about an unbelievable huge ransom payment.

1 Peter 1: 18 You know that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your ancestors, not with perishable things like silver or gold, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without defect or blemish.

Peter emphasizes the huge value being way above perishable things.

Paul, John and the Hebrew writer all use the ransom in a kidnapping scenario with a child being set free to go to their father.

The word “ransom” was used sometimes in the Old Testament to mean a reasonable “ tax payment”, made by the individual themselves, but the ransom God is paying in the form of Jesus Himself is huge beyond believe and it is not just to get something back, but to set someone who is a captive free.

The question should be then “Who is the undeserving kidnapper”?

Who is the underserving kidnapper the ransom is paid to, in order to be a true ransoming scenario?

The Bible refers to Jesus’ sacrifice as a literal ransom:

Mark 10:45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

1 Timothy 2:6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time

Heb. 9: 15…now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

We do have the blood specifically mentioned in Revelation 5:9 They sing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slaughtered and by your blood you ransomed for God saints from every tribe and language and people and nation;

Atonement is a huge misunderstood topic which all the theories do a poor job explaining, look at just one aspect they do not address:

Are we in agreement:

1. Jesus life is the unbelievable huge ransom payment?

2. The ransom payment was made to set children free to go to the Kingdom and be with the Father?

3. Deity (Jesus and God both) made this unbelievable huge payment?

4. All these fit perfectly a ransom scenario?

5. The scripture is not describing Jesus’ cruel torturous death on the cross as being like a ransom payment, but as being a ransom payment?

6. This was all done for “many” and “God’s saints” in some way and in other ways for “all” people?

You may have a problem with “6”, but I am just quoting scripture.

If it is not a kidnapping then it is no “ransoming”, but the Bible tells us there is a ransom payment at least being offered and definitely made for “many” and “God’s saints”.

Peter even help us out more by contrasting the unbelievable huge payment of Christ to just a payment of silver and gold. Who might take silver and gold, so it can be a good analogy for Peter? 1 Peter 1:18 You know that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your ancestors, not with perishable things like silver or gold,

A kidnapper holds back the parent’s children awaiting an acceptable ransom payment, so who do you blame for keeping children out of the Kingdom, since we sure do not want to blame ourselves?

The Kidnapper cannot be God since He is not an undeserving criminal kidnapper holding His own children back.

Also the Kidnapper would not be satan since God has the power to take without paying anything from satan. There is no cosmic Law saying you have got to pay the kidnapper and it would be wrong to do, satan is fully undeserving.

So who is the kidnapper?

When you go up to a nonbelieving sinner what are you trying to get him/her to accept: A doctrine, a denomination, a book, a theology, or something else. NO, you want the nonbeliever to accept “Jesus Christ and Him Crucified” and if he does a child of God is released to enter the Kingdom and be with God, but if the sinner rejects “Jesus Christ and Him crucifies” a child is kept out of the Kingdom.

Does this not sound very much like a kidnapping scenario with a ransom being offered?

“Jesus Christ and Him crucified” is described in scripture as the ransom payment?

Would the sinner holding a child of God out of the Kingdom of God describe a kidnapper?

“Jesus Christ and Him crucified” is a huge sacrificial payment, like you find with children being ransomed?

bling said:

That makes the “first born child” worth only a lamb’s life, which is pretty cheap don’t you think?

Can you find where the male lamb is being referred to as a ransom?

Where is “sin” involved in all this?

The Passover celebration took on the remembrance of God freeing all the Israelites from Egypt, much more then the death of the first born of Egypt, so are you finding the Jews talking about the Lamb as a ransom?

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The lamb's blood marked the household to be spared from the angel of death during the Exodus period (Exo 12:5) . The lamb was ransom from death (due to bondage/slavery to pharoah). Sin offerings are female lambs (Lev 4:32).

Consider John 8:31-36, the use of bondage and slavery is used in relation to sin and faith. Jesus is the ransom from death, from the bondage of sin.

I found only 2 more male lamb references since my last posting. Male lambs are a Burnt sacrifice (Lev 1:10 - started with Noah after the flood - I believe to give thanks for sparing them from the flood - I need to check this out). The second is a living offering (Deut 15:19- as all firstborn are God's).

The male lamb is a sacrifice as a ransom, thanks and attribution. Remarkably beautiful if you ask me.

public hermit said:

I have wondered about this, too. I think we get into some strange territory if we try to locate an actual recipient of the "payment."

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If we say it was God, then God pays the price to God?
If we say Satan, then God paid Satan off?
If we loosen our grip on trying to locate a literal recipient, then perhaps we can say Christ "paid the price" needed to free us from death and destruction. He gave his life as a "payment" to secure life for us. There is no actual recipient.
God set up the conditions needed for life to flourish in the divine presence. We have not met those conditions (sin) and, as things stand, cannot persist forever in the divine presence without some change occurring in us. The Son takes our nature upon himself (incarnation), meets the conditions for persisting life (obedience), endures the consequences of human sin and evil (death), overcomes them (resurrection), and returns to the divine presence taking humanity with him (ascension), thus opening the path for us to follow. In short, he gave himself as a ransom for many.

Just my thoughts, don't throw stones at me, lol.

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We were ransomed from God's justice (eternal death) by the death of his own divine son.

God is both justice and the justifier (Romans 3:26).