Is there any hope left for me??? (Freaking out about Hebrews 6:4-6 & 10:26-27)

Lukaris

Orthodox Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2007
7,886
2,551
Pennsylvania, USA
✟755,382.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Thanks. I hope so, because it it means “Anyone who hears the Good News/becomes a Christian but then goes astray for a while is condemned and has no more access to forgiveness,” then I’m really doomed.

I admit that I do not fully understand what the unforgivable sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is ( Matthew 12:31-32) but I believe the verses Hebrews 6:4-6, Hebrews 10:26-27 of which you are concerned about relate to this. As you can see there is also a wide range of of forgiving the Lord speaks of. Also, focus on Hebrews 10:32-39 which speaks of perseverance & endurance & then read Hebrews 11:1.
 
Upvote 0

Billy93

Active Member
Feb 24, 2021
136
45
31
Florida
✟22,362.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I admit that I do not fully understand what the unforgivable sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is ( Matthew 12:31-32) but I believe the verses Hebrews 6:4-6, Hebrews 10:26-27 of which you are concerned about relate to this. As you can see there is also a wide range of of forgiving the Lord speaks of. Also, focus on Hebrews 10:32-39 which speaks of perseverance & endurance & then read Hebrews 11:1.

Thanks. You’re right; the Bible says the one unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (which of course thanks to my OCD I constantly worry whether I’ve committed it or not, and occasionally I have intrusive thoughts as though I am committing it; it’s always worse the more I read my Bible and pray, go figure), but virtually everyone everywhere seems to agree that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is a total rejection of Christ/the Holy Spirit and attributing His powers to being of the Devil - even when witnessing His miracles and being fully aware that He is clearly *not*. Basically, people seem to think that if you’re worried you’ve committed it, you haven’t.

So I’m trying to be hopeful that I’m okay; I’m trying to tell myself that God still has open arms for me and wants me to seek Him. I’m ashamed of how I used to live.
 
Upvote 0

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.” Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)

You can relax on this one. They fell away - this isn’t talking about mere backsliding into sin, but rather they became apostate and no longer had any faith - thus they can’t ever repentof their sins as long as they remain apostates, because that requires faith, and they lost theirs.

You’re not an apostate, and as long as you have the desire to repent of past sins, that passage doesn’t apply to you.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: Billy93
Upvote 0

Billy93

Active Member
Feb 24, 2021
136
45
31
Florida
✟22,362.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You can relax on this one. They fell away - this isn’t talking about mere backsliding into sin, but rather they became apostate and no longer had any faith - thus they can’t ever repentof their sins as long as they remain apostates, because that requires faith, and they lost theirs.

You’re not an apostate, and as long as you have the desire to repent of past sins, that passage doesn’t apply to you.

Thanks. That’s a great way of explaining it. What are your thoughts on the other passage? Just curious.
 
Upvote 0

fhansen

Oldbie
Sep 3, 2011
13,947
3,542
✟323,974.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Does Hebrews say it’s too late for me to repent? Am I doomed to hell? :/
Where sin abounds, grace abounds. We don’t sin in order to receive grace and yet we’re here for a very specific purpose: to ultimately learn from sin/evil: to shun it, to hate it, to appreciate and embrace the good, alone, the highest good being God, Himself.

We all possess the knowledge of good and evil in this life, meaning that we all know-experience-both in this world. We can come to identify and distinguish between the two, the hard way. And grace is always there to help us, patiently, even as we fail, or especially when we fail, to learn, to give us the insights and strength-and conviction-to choose rightly. Jesus died for us while we were yet sinners (Rom 5:8). It’s a struggle, but a good one.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Thanks. That’s a great way of explaining it. What are your thoughts on the other passage? Just curious.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

It says if you decide to live a sinful lifestyle as a believer, not talking about occasional sins that you repent of, but deliberately live continuously in sin as unbelievers do, then the atonement of Jesus and His covenant no longer apply to you, and you will be damned.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: LoveGodsWord
Upvote 0

Billy93

Active Member
Feb 24, 2021
136
45
31
Florida
✟22,362.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

It says if you decide to live a sinful lifestyle as a believer, not talking about occasional sins that you repent of, but deliberately live continuously in sin as unbelievers do, then the atonement of Jesus and His covenant no longer apply to you, and you will be damned.

So I’m damned even though I’m now trying to repent? :/ I lived a sinful lifestyle for years, even though I was “saved” (or at least I thought I was) when I was younger.

EDIT: ...Or maybe I still just need to get it through my thick head that I likely *wasn’t* saved before. I had a few emotional moments regarding faith over the years and “accepted Jesus into my heart," but I never had much desire to pray or read my Bible, and I easily slipped into a sinful lifestyle. Virtually all my prayers back then were me asking God to do things for me, rather than to make me more like His son (which is what I’m now praying for on a daily basis). Basically, I don’t think I was ever willing to let Him lead my life until last year.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,349
Winnipeg
✟236,538.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Hebrews 5:11-14
11 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Hebrews 6:1-8
1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.
3 And this we will do, if God permits.
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.


It is a common interpretive principle among Bible scholars that “context is king.” That is, the meaning of a particular word, phrase, verse or passage is best understood within its immediate context. That immediate context constrains, qualifies and clarifies whatever meaning we may draw from a particular part of Scripture.

In the case of Hebrews 6:4-6, the immediate context extends back into the preceding chapter (joined to it by the use of the word “therefore” at the beginning of 6:1) where the writer of Hebrews is addressing the matter of spiritual immaturity. In chapter 5, verse 11, he remarks that his intended audience cannot understand all that he would tell them concerning Christ the High Priest of the “order of Melchizedek” because they are still those who “need milk and not solid food.”

Hebrews 5:12
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.


The writer of Hebrews points the way to greater maturity in verse 14 of chapter 5 through to verse 3 of chapter 6:

Hebrews 5:14
14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.


Hebrews 6:1-8
1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.
3 And this we will do, if God permits.


Here, then, is the context, the line of reasoning, that brings the reader of Hebrews to verses 4-6 of chapter 6. In view are the spiritually immature and recommendations for remedying their immaturity. The writer of Hebrews begins verse 4 by establishing a contrast between the spiritually immature he’s been addressing and those he describes in verses 4-6. He writes:

4 For in the case of those

Not “For in your case” or, “For you who have been…” but “…in the case of those…” which indicates the writer of Hebrews is now speaking of a group distinguishable from the group that he is addressing. This is the purpose of the demonstrative pronoun “those,” showing distance between the speaker and a noun and in doing so distinguishing them from each other. Of this other group, the writer of Hebrews says:

4…who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.


The writer of Hebrews at this point has established two groups: the merely spiritually immature who, despite their immaturity, are nonetheless genuine members of the faith and “those” who have brushed up against the truths and spiritual power of Christianity but have ultimately rejected it. The former are part of God’s family, immature though they be, but the latter have never actually entered into God’s family, though they have been close enough to that family to participate in its spiritual activities.

4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,

The phrase “once been enlightened” is assumed by those with a saved-and-lost doctrinal filter to mean “once been saved.” One can, however, be “enlightened” in varying degrees. For example, compared to a person who has never seen an airplane, my knowledge of airplanes is quite extensive. I am, in comparison to those totally ignorant about airplanes, quite enlightened about them. In comparison to an aerospace engineer, however, my enlightenment, my knowledge, of airplanes is extremely superficial. To say one is “enlightened” about something does not, then, necessarily mean they have a good understanding of that thing.

The spiritually-immature in view at the end of Hebrews 5 are a good biblical example of enlightenment in a weak degree. This is, in fact, exactly what being spiritually-immature means: One has a superficial, weak understanding of spiritual living; one is enlightened in a poor measure concerning the faith.

The word “enlightenment” in Greek carries the idea of “bringing light” or “illuminated.” As the examples above demonstrate, one can be only partially illuminated concerning a given matter. This is, I believe, the case in the instance in Hebrews 6:4-6. The “once enlightened” have had some light concerning the Gospel but their enlightenment is superficial at best, not resulting in actual conversion, which is supported by how the description of them continues:

4 … and have tasted of the heavenly gift…

The idea of a partial experience and understanding of the Christian faith is confirmed here with the use of the word “tasted.” If I say, “I tasted the soup,” obviously I don’t mean I’ve consumed it all. If such a meaning was intended, would I not say, “I ate the soup”? If I say, “My team tasted the bitterness of defeat last week,” do I mean my team existed in a perennial state of defeat? No, I mean the team encountered defeat in a single, limited instance last week.

“Tasted,” then, typically expresses a partial or limited experience of something - in this case, “the heavenly gift.” Here are some examples from Scripture of “tasted” meaning “partial” or “limited”:

Matthew 27:34
34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.

John 2:9
9 When the headwaiter tasted the water which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter *called the bridegroom…


What is the “heavenly gift” referred to in verse 4? Is it something of which one can have a limited or partial experience? Only in Hebrews 6:4 does the phrase “heavenly gift” appear in the New Testament. But the notion of a “heavenly” gift, that is, a gift given from God in heaven, points naturally to Christ the Saviour (John 4:10), or to the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; Acts 10:45), which is more likely given the reference to him at the end of verse 4.

Can one have “tasted” of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9-10), in a partial way? How so, if it is possible? A lost person "tastes" of the Spirit in any instance where they are evangelized directly; for Scripture says that no one can come to God except He has first acted to draw them to Himself by His Spirit (John 6:44; 2 Timothy 2:25), and given them a measure of understanding concerning the Gospel, and convicted them of the need of repentance and faith toward Christ. The Spirit does this to many of the lost as the Gospel is preached to them, but few, Jesus said, find the Narrow Way (Matthew 7:14), spurning the preparatory work God has done in making them able to take in the truth of the saving work of Christ at the cross of Calvary and perhaps to be saved.

In this way, then, a lost person may “taste” of the “heavenly gift” but remain spiritually-unregenerate. They experience a superficial or limited work of God’s Spirit in illuminating them to the truth of the Gospel and convicting them of their sin but do not respond in saving faith to that work, being distinct in this response from the truly born-again but spiritually-immature mentioned in Hebrews 5:11-14.

Surely, though, the end of verse 4 precludes any reading other than that which holds that it is genuine, born-again believers who are being described.

4 …and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,


Can one be made a “partaker of the Holy Spirit” and not be saved? Is such a thing in any way possible? It is helpful in answering this question to consider what the word “partaker” means in the koine Greek of the NT:

Greek Word: μέτοχος
Transliterated Word: metochos

Definition: sharing in

List of English Words and Number of Times Used
companions (1),
partakers (4),
partners (1).


“Metochos” signifies partnering with, or sharing in, something. In the case of Hebrews 6:4, in the Holy Spirit. In a second-hand, limited way, it is possible for a lost person to partner with, or share in, or partake of, the work of the Spirit through the various ministries and events of the Church. The lost who do are the “tares” within the Church of which Jesus spoke (Matthew 13:24-43), “false brethren” Paul called them (2 Corinthians 11:26), who participate in the life and work of the Church but who do not truly know Christ as their Saviour and Lord. These are they to whom Jesus says at the Final Judgment, “Depart from me I never knew you.” (Matthew 7:21-23)

These cast out people, these “tares,” did spiritual things: They prophesied in Christ’s name, exorcised demons, even performed miracles in his name. Such things could not be done except in the power of the Spirit, who, in honor of Christ in whose name they were done, made possible what these false brethren did. At no time, though, were these partners with the Spirit in these acts actually born-again children of God. As Jesus says to them, “I never knew you.”

A great OT example of the Spirit partnering with a person not living in a God-honoring way is that of Samson (Judges 13-16). Repeatedly, the Spirit came upon Samson, empowering him enormously, so that he was able to do incredible things – and some very stupid, selfish things, too. In fact, Samson’s life is generally characterized, not by a careful concern for God, but with low and sinful living. Nonetheless, the Spirit continued to act through Samson.

It is possible, then, to partake in the Spirit, to share in His work, partnering with Him in godly acts, while not actually being a spiritually-regenerate person. These are the people in view in Hebrews 6:4, set in contrast to the truly saved but spiritually-immature of Hebrews 5.

All of this is finally confirmed by the following:

Hebrews 6:6
6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.


It is not a surprise when those who are “false brethren” depart from the faith. They have been attempting to live in a way made possible only by divine power from which they are cut-off in their unregenerate state. As well, these “tares” being what they are, do not love God as they ought, and so find the self-sacrificial life of the disciple of Christ burdensome and frustrating. Over time, it makes less and less sense to a “tare” to endure such a life, which, finally, many of them abandon. It is, then, from this false spirituality, this superficial, partial, often second-hand experience of God that they “fall away,” rather than from a genuinely born-again condition.

What makes it impossible for them to be “renewed again to repentance” is that they fall away believing they have had a genuine experience of Christianity, of God, but have found that experience empty and futile. They have been close enough to the real Church to think themselves part of it which makes their “falling away” from it that much more “immunizing.” Like a person inoculated against a disease by having had an impotent variation of the disease introduced into their body by vaccination (making them immune to the real thing), “false brethren” have been “inoculated” to the Christian faith. They become profoundly, intractably convinced by their personal experience that Christianity has nothing real, nothing truly divine, to offer and will therefore never return to it.

Habituated to “religious activity,” many tares don’t “fall away,” going all their lives through the motions of Christian living, content with having a “form of godliness but denying the power thereof.” In so doing, they become hardened into this style of “Christianity” and thus impervious to the idea that they have all along been living a false version of the Christian faith. In this way, they, too, are “inoculated” against seeing that their “spirituality” is a counterfeit of the real thing. This is helped by their participation in religious rituals and paraphernalia and a totally uncritical acceptance of them by the Church as genuinely born-again children of God. Under such a circumstance, real conversion becomes impossible.

Please note: It is never that God has closed the door on these “tares” but that they have closed the door on themselves. They cannot be brought to repentance, not because God could not force them to repentance if He wanted to, or because God has made it unavailable to them, but because God respects our choices – even if they lead to the terrible and irreversible “spiritual inoculation” described above.

The writer of Hebrews eventually leaves off his comments on the "tares" and returns to addressing directly the spiritually immature believers of the end of Hebrews 5, distinguishing them again from the "those" he had just been characterizing:

Hebrews 6:9-12
9 But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.
10 For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints.
11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end,
12 so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.


Hopefully, you can see that Hebrews 6:4-6 does not actually support a SAL (saved-and-lost) view. What's more, the understanding of the verses I've laid out above comports far more readily with the rest of Scripture than does the way in which the SAL perspective construes them.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Nathan@work

Always ready :)
Feb 19, 2021
1,025
360
45
Garfield
✟27,017.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So I’m damned even though I’m now trying to repent? :/ I lived a sinful lifestyle for years, even though I was “saved” (or at least I thought I was) when I was younger.

EDIT: ...Or maybe I still just need to get it through my thick head that I likely *wasn’t* saved before. I had a few emotional moments regarding faith over the years and “accepted Jesus into my heart," but I never had much desire to pray or read my Bible, and I easily slipped into a sinful lifestyle. Virtually all my prayers back then were me asking God to do things for me, rather than to make me more like His son (which is what I’m now praying for on a daily basis). Basically, I don’t think I was ever willing to let Him lead my life until last year.

Being “saved” is not a once and done thing. :)

I realize that it’s often portrayed that way, but the reality is salvation is a life - not an event. Even Paul would say he had not attained it yet, which simply means it was not something he ‘owned’.

Have faith. Those passages only apply to you if you do not want Gods salvation. As long as you believe that you cannot be good enough for God to accept you I can assure you that you are not one of the people the passages talk about.
 
Upvote 0

JLHargus

Active Member
Sep 10, 2018
209
28
80
Columbus
✟33,906.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Billy93, post: 75770925, member: 433236"] out of confusion after having read the two Hebrews passages I mentioned in my post title:

“For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.” Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” Hebrews 10:26-27 (KJV)[/QUOTE]

JL: First Paul, or the author of Hebrews is addressing Hebrew Christians warning them of the state of those Hebrew Christians who have apostatized and returned to OT Judaism. For them there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, for it is impossible for the blood of bulls to take away sins.

[Hb10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?]KJV

[Hb10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.]KJV

[Hb10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. 38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.]KJV
Praying you continue in the fight.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So I’m damned even though I’m now trying to repent? :/ I lived a sinful lifestyle for years, even though I was “saved” (or at least I thought I was) when I was younger.

EDIT: ...Or maybe I still just need to get it through my thick head that I likely *wasn’t* saved before. I had a few emotional moments regarding faith over the years and “accepted Jesus into my heart," but I never had much desire to pray or read my Bible, and I easily slipped into a sinful lifestyle. Virtually all my prayers back then were me asking God to do things for me, rather than to make me more like His son (which is what I’m now praying for on a daily basis). Basically, I don’t think I was ever willing to let Him lead my life until last year.

The point is His sacrificial atonement doesn’t apply as long as someone is living a sinful lifestyle without repentance - God always forgives when one sincerely repents.

F you’ve repented of that, it’s forgiven - neither Hebrews 6 or 10 says you can’t be forgiven when you’ve repented.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: LoveGodsWord
Upvote 0

Salvadore

Active Member
Feb 2, 2020
359
255
72
Nashville
✟40,831.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
I wonder how many of us have rededicated our lives multiple times because we go off on the wrong path and sin. Living the Christian life is difficult. There is much temptation. We are not perfect. God says He wants us to repent when we sin and He will be faithful to forgive us. I think your question is being asked by a lot of Christians. You can make a profession of faith and be baptized again, but I think you will sin again. Some sins make you feel worse than others. I wonder how many Christians approach death with uncertainty about where they will go. I think you love God very much. I think, however, you struggle with past sin. I am not sure if a person can change in a day and never intentionally sin again. If anyone has, I would be surprised. I have been listening to a hymn in the morning and reading a verse and thinking. I talk with other Christians about Christ. Sometimes I feel like you feel. You are still very young. I am old. I am sorry to tell you that you will struggle against sin for many more years. I could not go to heaven if Jesus had not shed His precious blood for me on the cross. There is no other way. I pray that you continue to grow in faith. Some of your struggles will melt away as you age but, you will always struggle in this life.
 
Upvote 0

Anthony2019

Pax et bonum!
Site Supporter
Jan 25, 2019
5,957
10,894
Staffordshire, United Kingdom
✟777,445.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
During my life as a Christian, I have stumbled and fallen more times that I can remember. And sometimes greatly.
When I have come back to God, His response has always been the same. Just like the father of the prodigal son.
"And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him".
If he can do it for me, then I am more that confident that he will do it for you.
 
Upvote 0

FutureAndAHope

Just me
Site Supporter
Aug 30, 2008
6,362
2,912
Australia
Visit site
✟736,252.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi,

I don’t quite know where to begin (or if this is even the right place for me to be posting this), but for the last few days I’ve been feeling awful/terrified and I am more in-doubt than ever as to my salvation/the state of my soul. ..

The good news is that salvation is available. You mentioned Hebrews 6, and I quote it below:

Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

You will notice that I have bolded the last bit. Where it says the person is "re-crucifying Christ". The scriptures tell us that the cross covers a lifetime of sin.

Heb 9:27-28 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;

Our life and death are covered by the cross. In order to re-crucify Christ, a person would have to have died in their sins. Hebrews 6 is a warning for genuine Christians not to walk away from God, for if they do no other sacrifice is available.

But any time during this life that we seek repentance it is available to us.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
(Part 2)

Anyways, then 2020 came around. It’s funny; at the beginning of the year, I had actually just begun finally actively attending a church up there which I really liked. First time in ages. But then, COVID hit, and it basically destroyed my industry (performing arts). It made living in NYC virtually impossible due to the super-high rent, so I moved back down south to live with my parents and younger brother.

I’m not sure what exactly did it for me, but 2020 was a huge eye-opener and wake-up call for me. In summer/fall, I started praying much more than I can remember ever before, and started reading my Bible again. Since late July/early August, I have been reading the Bible & praying every day. What’s more, I’ve found myself *enjoying* reading the Bible - a lot! - something I don’t think I had ever really felt before. Some nights, I wanted to keep reading and reading. So much of what I’ve read has moved me deeply, and some nights I even found myself sobbing at passages and verses.

I’ve prayed on numerous occasions asking God to change me, to give me more faith, to mold me into who he wants me to be (to make me look more like his Son!), to help me be content with what I have, to help me find thankfulness/joy no matter what is going on, to reveal my sins and give me the strength to overcome them, to fill me with the Holy Spirit, to help me forgive others, to help me with my jealousy issues, to use me to accomplish his work, to make me into a good example for others, to give me the strength to be willing to give up anything and everything for him, and to give me the strength to “endure” no matter what.

Since July/August, I’ve found myself praying for people I don’t even like, wishing that God would bless them. I never would have thought to do that before. I’ve thanked God for things which I was never thankful for before. I find myself asking my mom if she needs help with anything (used to groan and grumble even when she would *ask* me to do something, whereas now I jump to help right away). I’ve stopped using curse words (got in a bad habit of cursing back in college/grad school). Etc.

I’m not sure I “feel” much different than I used to, and I am not sure how to tell whether one even has the Holy Spirit or is saved - but I have noticed myself behaving differently in some ways. And I can only assume this is because I’ve asked God to help me with this, because for so much of my life I have been a selfish, jealous person with too many problems to list. And I still have a ton of problems to work out; I’m *far* from perfect.

So I don’t list any of these things to brag, but rather out of confusion after having read the two Hebrews passages I mentioned in my post title:

“For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.” Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” Hebrews 10:26-27 (KJV)

I was raised to believe Once Saved Always Saved, which is honestly probably part of the reason why I didn’t pay much mind to my sins over the years; it’s a lot easier to think “It’s okay if I sin, God forgives me anyways/I’ll just pray afterwards” than to actually try to change one’s life. Not sure where I stand now on OSAS (I don’t know what to think), but these passages in Hebrews absolutely terrify me. It’s ironic, because from August to December I read the entire New Testament (first time ever doing that), and back then I don’t recall Hebrews giving me such a hard time.

But the other day I read about these passages on some site, and they have terrorized me ever since. I’m not sure what to make of them, but taking them at face value would seem to indicate that someone like me is actually lost forever. Because of my willful sin. And yes, I know that some people will say “Well, all Christians still slip up on occasion and sin,” but it wasn’t like I just slipped up every now and then amidst trying to follow Christ. This was me actively and intentionally living in sin for a time, at least especially in the cases of the live-in girlfriends which were a day-in and day-out lifestyle choice. I had been raised to know this was wrong, and yet I did it anyways.

I tried to forget about God (except when arguing about his existence with the agnostic girl), because thinking about God would always bring me back to the truth of his Word, that what I was doing was wrong. It wasn’t that I didn’t believe in him anymore, and in fact I even still attended church with my family when I would come home to visit over the summer/holidays. It wasn’t like I was just a total unbeliever trying to put on a facade either; I found myself often agreeing with what the pastor said… I was just too caught-up in sin to see myself getting out of it anytime soon.

I guess the bottom-line is, I’m not sure what I am:

I don’t know if I first got saved in 2020, and wasn’t saved before?

I don’t know if I’ve been saved since I was a kid, and just had a period of backsliding and have “come home”?

I don’t know if I was saved as a kid, but my backsliding is what is referred to in Hebrews and thus I am no longer saved even though I know the truth - and so all I can spend the rest of my life doing is living in terrible fear of the knowledge that my fate is an eternity in hell?

I feel so confused. Of course it is possible that Satan is using these verses + my OCD/anxiety to scare me to death and try and get me off the path again, and that he is concerned by the fact that I’ve been reading my Bible/praying/trying to change for the better…

I could definitely imagine one of the following two scenarios being what is happening:

1. OSAS is false and salvation can be lost if one dies in their sins, but backsliders are welcome to repent and “come home”: thus, Satan would be trying to convince me that the Hebrews passage means backsliders *cannot* come home, and that therefore I might as well give up and go back to my self-seeking life like before (and in so doing, end up condemning myself to hell).

2. OSAS is true and salvation cannot be lost, but Satan is concerned that I am actively trying to grow fruit of the Spirit, and wants me to feel hopeless and nip it in the bud before I become a strong believer who might help lead others to Christ.

Either option would be one possible way Satan could be trying to deceive me with this. Plus, isn’t he called the Accuser, who accuses us of our sins and tries to make us feel that we are beyond saving? ...Then again, it’s possible that it’s not Satan, and that I really did just screw up beyond repair with my actions in college/grad school, and that there is no salvation available for me. I guess if that is the case, I would just have to accept that I’m lost and that I deserve hell (because I certainly do)… But I am still convinced that Christ is Lord and that the Bible is true, so even if I am doomed to hell I don’t see myself turning on God.

But haven’t lots of Christians over the years (maybe even in the Bible) backslid/turned away and made bad decisions for a time, only to come back to God later? Were these people therefore not real Christians? Was it all fake, an act, and Hebrews actually means that they are in hell now? Did they just *think* that they had overcome their sins and that God had accepted them back, but actually he hadn’t and they were deceived by Satan into thinking that?

Or is it impossible for Satan to even deceive in that way? I mean, yes he is a liar and is capable of major deception, but in some ways I would think that if someone appears to be turning from their sins and is living a more Christ-like life - and fruit of the Spirit can be seen - then I would think that’s an indication that they're legit, and that they really are saved? Idk, like I said I have OCD and so I could sit here all day with my mind going around in circles.

At the end of the day, I just want the truth, and that’s probably one reason I woke up in 2020. I felt (and still feel) so much evil in the world, and have been witnessing so much hypocrisy, so many double standards, etc., that it totally shattered any hope I had in mankind. This world is doomed and I am disgusted by it more and more on a daily basis. At this point I don’t care what happens; all I know is that I believe God is real and that Jesus Christ is his Son and that he came to die for our sins, and that he is the only way to heaven. I just hope I didn’t “miss my flight,” and that I’m still accepted there. I spent so many years not taking it seriously, then outright rebelling in sin for years, that it is so easy to think it’s too late for me.

Heck, I used to sometimes cringe at Christians who seemed to be “Jesus freaks” and who were very serious and impassioned about their faith. Up until I dated that girl in 2019, I actually *avoided* those people (primarily because I felt they would judge me for my past sins). Yet now I find myself praying to God asking to make *me* into one. And now, when it comes to dating, I am only looking for Christians who take their faith seriously.

I just need to know the truth about what is possible for me at this point. If you’ve read this far, 1. Thank you so much and 2. Please don’t hesitate to hit me with biblical truth; don’t just tell me what I want to hear. If Hebrews really does mean it’s too late for me, I want to know. I’m just scared and depressed. It’s ironic though that I would be feeling this way right after I’ve been taking my faith more seriously than ever before, and after I’ve been seeing myself gradually change and think/act differently than I ever used to. (That is one of the things that makes me wonder if this is Satan messing with me/trying to scare me.) Anyways, thanks again for reading, and I’m so sorry for writing a novel. God bless.

You are correct and it seems you do well to fear those scriptures. They do indeed teach that anyone who is living in a life of continual known unrepentant sin is not in a saved state with God. The fear of the Lord of course is indeed the beginning of wisdom *Proverbs 9:10 and you have shown by believing these scriptures (although not perfectly) that believing Gods Word leads us back to God. You can see that by believing Gods Word in Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31 it has led you back to God dear friend. The scriptures say exactly what they say so please do not let others say they say something differently then what they say to you personally. It is God's Word and be believing them the fruit show they have led you back to God. There is rejoicing in Heaven this day. Our salvation and strength is only in believing and following God's Word *John 17:17 and if you will take hold of the rest of God's Word through faith as you did to those scriptures in your OP God promise that you will know the truth and the truth will make you free (John 8:31-36) as you turn away from the teachings and traditions of men and seek Jesus for a knowledge or His truth through his Word and His Spirit *John 14:26; John 16:13; John 7:17; 1 John 2:17. Now you have found your lamp you will find your way when the road is dark and narrow. Don't let your lamp go out dear friend and welcome home.

God bless
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

JulieB67

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2020
1,589
731
56
Ohio US
✟150,721.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.” Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)

Hello Billy, many have said it better than me. But I'll add my 2 cents in as well.

This verse as I understand it is, that we can't keep asking Christ to save us as if we're asking him again the first time. It's like putting him back on the cross. What you would need to do is with an honest heart of repentance (change of mind and heart) seek his forgiveness and move on from your past. Will you sin again? Yes, we all do and if we say we are without sin, we are liars. But the difference is you are continually seeking God in your life and you are striving to continually put the spirit over the flesh. You are young and it is a battle. I'm in my 50's and in my 20's I was all over the place. Sometimes the sanctification process takes time. But God is a heart knower. He knows if we're truly trying to make a change. I would continually stay in his Word. And continually seek him in prayer. That's what keeps me going.

If you have problem sin instead of asking for forgiveness over and over and repeating the same sins over and over -ask for his guidence and help to overcome those and that usually comes from as I said, staying in his Word every day.

The fact that you're here means our Heavenly Father is speaking to you. He wants you to come to full repentance. And he is long suffering. Meaning he has patience. But that's not a license to sin but it shows that no matter what you've done, he will still be there upon true repentance.

II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

He doesn't want anyone to perish he wants us to repent and come back to the fold.
 
Upvote 0

Billy93

Active Member
Feb 24, 2021
136
45
31
Florida
✟22,362.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The point is His sacrificial atonement doesn’t apply as long as someone is living a sinful lifestyle without repentance - God always forgives when one sincerely repents.

F you’ve repented of that, it’s forgiven - neither Hebrews 6 or 10 says you can’t be forgiven when you’ve repented.

Thanks a lot for your response. Yes, I’ve repented and am now daily trying to live the sort of life He wants me to live.
 
Upvote 0

Billy93

Active Member
Feb 24, 2021
136
45
31
Florida
✟22,362.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Being “saved” is not a once and done thing. :)

I realize that it’s often portrayed that way, but the reality is salvation is a life - not an event. Even Paul would say he had not attained it yet, which simply means it was not something he ‘owned’.

Have faith. Those passages only apply to you if you do not want Gods salvation. As long as you believe that you cannot be good enough for God to accept you I can assure you that you are not one of the people the passages talk about.

Thank you so much. Trust me - I definitely believe I cannot be good enough for salvation, lol. In fact, I regularly worry these days that I’m *not* saved. For the first few days it was this concern about Hebrews… but then after everyone seemed to agree that the verses do *not* apply to me and that as long as I want to repent and be forgiven and have salvation, my mind has now shifted to this “Well, even if you *can* be saved, how do you know you are? Maybe you’re wrong about something/are following 'another Jesus' like the Bible warns about” mindset. It’s frustrating.

Obviously, it’s healthy to have a fear of the Lord, but I think my OCD is going into overdrive about all this. It’s quite telling that my anxiety is just jumping from one topic to the next and not allowing myself to have any rest/comfort about any of this. I’ve been dealing with OCD for years but never too much about faith/salvation, probably because that honestly wasn’t too important to me in my life until the last half-year or so. Anyways, thanks for the encouragement.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Billy93

Active Member
Feb 24, 2021
136
45
31
Florida
✟22,362.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I wonder how many of us have rededicated our lives multiple times because we go off on the wrong path and sin. Living the Christian life is difficult. There is much temptation. We are not perfect. God says He wants us to repent when we sin and He will be faithful to forgive us. I think your question is being asked by a lot of Christians. You can make a profession of faith and be baptized again, but I think you will sin again. Some sins make you feel worse than others. I wonder how many Christians approach death with uncertainty about where they will go. I think you love God very much. I think, however, you struggle with past sin. I am not sure if a person can change in a day and never intentionally sin again. If anyone has, I would be surprised. I have been listening to a hymn in the morning and reading a verse and thinking. I talk with other Christians about Christ. Sometimes I feel like you feel. You are still very young. I am old. I am sorry to tell you that you will struggle against sin for many more years. I could not go to heaven if Jesus had not shed His precious blood for me on the cross. There is no other way. I pray that you continue to grow in faith. Some of your struggles will melt away as you age but, you will always struggle in this life.

Thank you for the comment and prayer, and thanks for your perspective. It’s good to know that there will always be somewhat of a struggle; that’s fine. As long as I’m not beyond saving. I had just never been so terrified as to the thought of where I will spend eternity, as I have been these past few weeks. Prayer and reading my Bible have helped a lot so far, as have the comments on these boards. Still though, it’s scary. I think a lot of it is my OCD and my knack for obsessing over thoughts; I hope that with time I can come to a sense of peace about it all.
 
Upvote 0