Hate Speech

Hammster · Feb 24, 2021

This topic came up in another thread. Some are saying that hate speech shouldn’t be free speech, while others have argued that free speech protects hate speech. I’m in the second group.

For those who think that hate speech shouldn’t be included in free speech, can you give a working definition of hate speech?

Tree of Life · Feb 24, 2021

Hate speech is speech that I hate.

Hammster · Feb 24, 2021

Tree of Life said:
Hate speech is speech that I hate.

That seems to be a common definition.

Tree of Life · Feb 24, 2021

Hammster said:
That seems to be a common definition.

It's not just speech that I hate. It's speech that we hate. And by "we", I mean me and my voting block.

durangodawood · Feb 24, 2021

Hammster said:
This topic came up in another thread. Some are saying that hate speech shouldn’t be free speech, while others have argued that free speech protects hate speech. I’m in the second group....

From what?

I mean saying hateful things can have consequences which no special principle should automatically shield you from.

Aldebaran · Feb 24, 2021

durangodawood said:
From what?

I mean saying hateful things can have consequences which no special principle should automatically shield you from.

What's "hateful" is in the eye of the beholder. Some people think anything they don't like is "hateful". Some people even think the bible is hate speech and want it banned, just as other books are now being banned. The problem comes when one political party or group in power takes it upon themselves to define what hate is, and then puts that definition over the exercise of free speech, which is constitutionally protected.

Hammster · Feb 24, 2021

durangodawood said:
From what?

I mean saying hateful things can have consequences which no special principle should automatically shield you from.

That’s the point of this thread. What hateful things? Can you give a definition?

OldWiseGuy · Feb 24, 2021

durangodawood said:
From what?

I mean saying hateful things can have consequences which no special principle should automatically shield you from.

True. You speak your mind and take your chances.

Tree of Life · Feb 24, 2021

durangodawood said:
From what?

I mean saying hateful things can have consequences which no special principle should automatically shield you from.

From criminal prosecution.

durangodawood · Feb 24, 2021

Hammster said:
That’s the point of this thread. What hateful things? Can you give a definition?

I was asking you to clarify what you claimed to agree with: "that free speech protects hate speech".

Protects from what? What consequences should free-speech shield me from? (And dont ask me for my definition of hate speech. Please use yours, since it was your statement).

durangodawood · Feb 24, 2021

Tree of Life said:
From criminal prosecution.

OK. Yeah I would agree that the US constitution shields you from govt interference with whatever you care to say (except in a finite set of circumstances that most people agree with.)

Aldebaran · Feb 24, 2021

durangodawood said:
I was asking you to clarify what you claimed to agree with: "that free speech protects hate speech".

Protects from what? What consequences should free-speech shield me from? (And dont ask me for my definition of hate speech. Please use yours, since it was your statement).

Protection from slander, censorship, banning from interaction with others, loss of employment, etc.

durangodawood · Feb 24, 2021

Aldebaran said:
Protection from slander, censorship, banning from interaction with others, loss of employment, etc.

Haha... no. Employers (who are people too) are free to disassociate with you based on things you say. Thats freedom, like it or not.

Aldebaran · Feb 24, 2021

durangodawood said:
Haha... no. Employers (who are people too) are free to disassociate with you based on things you say. Thats freedom, like it or not.

It can also be discrimination, depending on the color of the one who said it. And the employer.

Hammster · Feb 24, 2021

durangodawood said:
I was asking you to clarify what you claimed to agree with: "that free speech protects hate speech".

Protects from what? What consequences should free-speech shield me from? (And dont ask me for my definition of hate speech. Please use yours, since it was your statement).

I don’t have a definition. Do you?

essentialsaltes · Feb 24, 2021

Aldebaran said:
Protection from slander, censorship, banning from interaction with others, loss of employment, etc.

Hahaha, no. Free speech means the government can't place restrictions on the speech. Everyone else, including your employer, your social media platforms and your momma, is welcome to provide their critical review of your speech.

Hammster · Feb 24, 2021

Anyway, can we get back to the OP and a working definition of hate speech?

durangodawood · Feb 24, 2021

Hammster said:
I don’t have a definition. Do you?

I dont. But you must because you opined that its protected. How could you say that if you dont know what it is?

essentialsaltes · Feb 24, 2021

durangodawood said:
I dont. But you must because you opined that its protected. How could you say that if you dont know what it is?

I expect Hammster and I would agree (if on little else) that apart from special carve-outs for things like shouting 'Fire' and inciting imminent violence, all speech is free from government restrictions.

We don't need to define what free speech or hate speech is. We only need to rigidly define the carve-outs that we're prohibiting by law.

So it's only for people who want some sort of anti-hate speech law who will have to come up with rules for what is and isn't prohibited.

durangodawood · Feb 24, 2021

essentialsaltes said:
I expect Hammster and I would agree that apart from special carve-outs for things like shouting 'Fire' and inciting imminent violence, all speech is free from government restrictions.

We don't need to define what 'free' speech is. We only need to rigidly define the carve-outs that we're prohibiting by law.

So it's only for people who want some sort of anti-hate speech law who will have to come up with rules for what is and isn't prohibited.

Yeah but if I dont know what it is, I dont know if it fits one of the carve-outs or not - and there's a bunch of them.

Hate Speech

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