Does God love all or some?

Hmm said:

Perhaps I'd better not go on that run then and just sit down and watch TV instead, thanks

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Anything not of faith is sin.

Saint Steven said:

This might help. The NT Greek word "aionios" does not mean eternal.

The doctrine of eternal hell is so shocking that it deserves a careful examination. In this video we discuss the meaning of the word "aionios" by its other appearances in the Bible, not relying on dictionary definitions.

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I prefer Bible, thank you very much, like these passages here...

Mark 9:43-48- "
“If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched (ever)—

“where

‘Their worm does not die,
And the fire is not quenched (ever).’

“And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched (ever) (forever)—

“where

‘Their worm does not die,
And the fire is not quenched (ever) (forever).’

“And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire—

“where

‘Their worm does not die,
And the fire is not quenched (ever) (forever).’

Isaiah 66:22-

“And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh (forever).”

Jude 13

"[These people are] wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever ("forever")."

By the way, I, on purpose, left out all passages where it uses the words "eternal" or "everlasting" on purpose, as you think those are wrong, so I gave you others instead, but I still think you are wrong about "eternal" and/or "everlasting" not actually meaning "eternal or everlasting" though, as I've already heard different perspectives (both perspectives) from both sides of this argument already, so, I thought I'd leave you with these scriptures instead, that doesn't use those specific words, but are "very clear", etc...

Also there are a couple passages in Revelation that use use the words "forever and ever" specifically, and I'm also not sure where you stand on those either so...? (Revelation 14:11) (Revelation 20:10)...

It also calls that judgement the "second death" (Revelation 20:14) from which the rest of the Bible seems to indicate there is no coming back from, ever, and that is forever, after that, etc...

It is not simply a place of discipline that one can get out of or come back from after that, etc, and the Bible says that too...

The second death (judgement) is permanent, eternal, forever, final, forever, etc...

There is no coming back from it after that, etc...

"Ever", etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Dave L said:

Anything not of faith is sin.

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I admire the fact that you've voted according to your belief.

Hmm said:

I'm sure God can love us if we don't have free will but it wouldn't be relationship. It would be love in the sense that God loves the all other things He created that don't have free such as the beauty of nature.

I was really asking though How can we love God, not how can God love us, if we don't have free will?

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We will love God (the Spirit) (YHWH, etc) (God in the OT, etc) (and Jesus also, etc) only if the Father already predestined us from the very beginning to already do so, otherwise, we just won't ever, etc...

The Father does not need us to love Him, (because he needs nothing at all, etc), but will cause, or will have already caused, each one of us to love them all, if we both always were, and always was, one of His chosen ones by Him from before the foundations of the world, (or before anything was ever made), to love all of each one of them, etc, otherwise we just won't, and never will, etc...

God Bless!

Hmm said:

I admire the fact that you've voted according to your belief.

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“And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.” Romans 14:23 (KJV 1900)

Agallagher said:

@Saint Steven you are right I’m plagued by a torturous perplexing society with fascination of our own kind while suffering bearing the cross that has been made with in my own Lot, as the Lord Jesus Christ carries not just me but all believers through the storm of life and wonder.

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Hopefully this will lighten your load.

Matthew 11:29-30 NIV
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

Galatians 6:2 NIV
Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

Proverbs 17:22 NIV
A cheerful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones.

Saint Steven said:

So, God set Jesus up for failure?

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No, of course not.

Saint Steven said:

How could Jesus succeed in what he was sent to do if it is contingent on our response?

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He succeeded in making reconciliation to God, forgiveness and eternal life possible.
He doesn't force people to take it.

Saint Steven said:

It should be obvious that Jesus is not the Savior of the world if the whole world was not saved.

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Not at all - you're disregarding man's ability to choose and follow God.

That has always been there: Adam was told not to eat the fruit not kept away with electric fences and a firing squad, nor was he pinned down and force fed it. Moses said "whoever is for the Lord, come to me", Exodus 32:26. Joshua said, "choose this day who you will serve", Joshua 24:15. Jesus invited his disciples to follow - he didn't drag them or make them go with him.

God chooses, and chose, people to serve him in specific ways. As we are made by him in his image, how can we, also, not have that ability? He chose to allow us to choose, rather than making us robots - push a button and hear people say "l love you and will obey."

Neogaia777 said:

I prefer Bible, thank you very much, like these passages here...

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The video is ALL Bible. Deep study in the NT Greek Bible language. Very informative. The word "aionios" cannot mean eternal. Don't bury your head in the sand.

Saint Steven said:

Here is how that story might be told from a Universalist perspective.

My wife passed away rather suddenly. In going through her things I found a voucher for a ride on a steam train. (which I enjoy) The voucher was valid before I discovered it.

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Except that that's not the same story at all.
I chose a voucher that had many months on it before it expired, gave it to my husband who, being alive, accepted it, said thank you etc - and then didn't use it.
I even reminded him when he only had about 3 months left. He had a gift and every opportunity to use it, but didn't.

Thank you @Saint Steven very much brother. Sitting here reading some subtle tears about the mercy of the King who forgave a man of great debt yet he went and asked from his servant who due him also money yet did not become merciful (Matthew 18:21-35)

Saint Steven said:

The video is ALL Bible. Deep study in the NT Greek Bible language. Very informative. The word "aionios" cannot mean eternal. Don't bury your head in the sand.

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And I purposely gave you scripture where "aionios" is not even ever used, but whatever, like I said, I've already heard both sides of this argument, so...

OK, just this one simple question for you then, then, OK...?

And it is just simply this: "Do you think there is ever any coming back from from the second death (final judgement) at all ever...?"

Yes or No...?

God Bless!

Strong in Him said:

No, of course not.



He succeeded in making reconciliation to God, forgiveness and eternal life possible.
He doesn't force people to take it.



Not at all - you're disregarding man's ability to choose and follow God.

That has always been there: Adam was told not to eat the fruit not kept away with electric fences and a firing squad, nor was he pinned down and force fed it. Moses said "whoever is for the Lord, come to me", Exodus 32:26. Joshua said, "choose this day who you will serve", Joshua 24:15. Jesus invited his disciples to follow - he didn't drag them or make them go with him.

God chooses, and chose, people to serve him in specific ways. As we are made by him in his image, how can we, also, not have that ability? He chose to allow us to choose, rather than making us robots - push a button and hear people say "l love you and will obey."

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I'm familiar with this line of reasoning.
I suppose next you will tell me that people freely choose to suffer eternal conscious torment.

Neogaia777 said:

And it is just simply this: "Do you think there is ever any coming back from from the second death (final judgement) at all ever...?"

Yes or No...?

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The last enemy to be destroyed is death. So, yes.

1 Corinthians 15:55
O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory?

Isaiah 25:8
He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces...

Hosea 13:14
I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be your plagues; O grave...

Luke 20:36
Neither can they die any more: for they are equal to the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

2 Timothy 1:10
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death...

Hebrews 2:14
For as much then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same...

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying...

Agallagher said:

Thank you @Saint Steven very much brother. Sitting here reading some subtle tears about the mercy of the King who forgave a man of great debt yet he went and asked from his servant who due him also money yet did not become merciful (Matthew 18:21-35)

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Mercy must be tempered with truth and justice, otherwise it is not true mercy, especially if it is getting one to believe in a lie, cause that could carry with it some pretty grave, and maybe even some very dire consequences possibly, etc, which is why it is not true mercy, especially if it can put one in danger of possibly going to a very bad place in the afterlife or in the end, etc...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 said:

Right, and for those of you who do believe in a "free will", etc, then how can all be saved, if there is a possibility of a person, or a certain group of people, always and continually and outright and always, always rejecting being saved only, etc...?

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I never said that all would be saved.

Neogaia777 said:

Cause in there is a flaw in your logic as well, etc...

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Like what?

Neogaia777 said:

Free will has to allow for the possibility, and I would even say certainty, of most definitely some not ever being saved ever, etc...

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Yes - God allowed us a choice knowing that some would not choose him. He told Adam what he wanted (that Adam not touch the fruit), and then left Adam to make his own decision.

Neogaia777 said:

Now I don't subscribe to "true free will", etc, but I still feel like I still know still, that not all are all always saved always, etc, in or by or in the end always, etc...

And again, I have tried to explain that, but none of you care to hear or listen or comprehend, etc...

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Not everyone will be saved.
God could certainly have made us so that we had no option but to say "I love you and will serve you" - but would you want someone who followed and loved you because they were made that way and HAD to, or someone who knew they had other options but CHOSE to love you?

As for trying to explain things to us - maybe it is just me, but personally, I'd find your posts a lot easier to understand if you didn't use "etc" in every sentence or every other word.
Sorry, but it makes it hard to read sometimes.

Neogaia777 said:

We will love God (the Spirit) (YHWH, etc) (God in the OT, etc) (and Jesus also, etc) only if the Father already predestined us from the very beginning to already do so, otherwise, we just won't ever, etc...

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What would you think though if you got a Valentine's card that said "I love you in accordance with the programming I received prior to the Big Bang 14 billion years ago?" I'd think it was a joke.

Neogaia777 said:

The Father does not need us to love Him,

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I agree, He doesn't need us to love Him. But He delights in it which was why He made us.

Saint Steven said:

The last enemy to be destroyed is death. So, yes.

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Death is only destroyed (done away with) at that final judgement, etc, and that is not for all, but only for some, etc... Only those not being able to be harmed by the second death, etc... Cause some still will, and can be, and after that final judgment, they will continually and always be, and that will be "forever", etc...

The Bible is pretty darn clear that unless you are only one of those not being able to ever be harmed by the second death, then it will be eternal death for you, (eternal suffering, anguish, torment, etc), from which there is never any coming back from, after the final judgement, etc...

But believe what you want to, "everything is sunshine and rainbows", "all are saved in the end, so nothing at all really matters", etc, "not how good or bad you are, none of it at all matters at all ever, cause all are saved in the end", etc, "no one ever goes to any kind of hell ever", "and even if they do, it is only to correct you and it's really not that bad", etc...

Take the broad and spacious path, see if I care...

As long as it makes you feel good right now, that's all that matters, right...?

Fits in with your views of who and what God should be (like), right...?

After all, any kind of god that you make or set in your own image of who God is or is supposed to be, has to be true, right...?

God Bless!

That one lonely vote for “God loves some,” awwwww.

Neogaia777 said:

But believe what you want to, "everything is sunshine and rainbows", "all are saved in the end, so nothing at all really matters", etc, "not how good or bad you are, none of it at all matters at all ever, cause all are saved in the end", etc, "no one ever goes to any kind of hell ever", "and even if they do, it is only to correct you and it's really not that bad", etc...

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That’s a whole lot of straw man fallacy right there ^^^^^^

Hmm said:

What would you think though if you got a Valentine's card that said "I love you in accordance with the programming I received prior to the Big Bang 14 billion years ago?" I'd think it was a joke.

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We are a part of His masterpiece, his greatest composition, or most tremendous stupendous symphony orchestra, etc, and I think that is something pretty special, etc, and I think He does think that also, as well, etc...

Also this is not just about God the Father, but also God the Son, and God the Spirit also, and our relations to or with them also, for the Father God set them up to be our God also, and our God with us, also, etc...

And there is a very great love story involved there, etc...

Hmm said:

I agree, He doesn't need us to love Him. But He delights in it which was why He made us.

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I very much believe He absolutely does!

God Bless!