Are we saved by Works, or Faith Alone?

boxman144 said:

Hello all, I'm back with our friend again,

Recently he posted this video. Are we saved by works, faith and works, or faith alone?

I'd like you guys to be respectful in the comments please, and gently rebuke. Thanks,


boxman144

Click to expand...

We are saved by Christ alone.

boxman144 said:

Hello all, I'm back with our friend again,

Click to expand...

He quotes Revelation 22:12, and then says, "this is the gospel that is despised, hated, and spat upon in the Christian culture. The cultured Christians reject this gospel, because they have received the money gospel, the easy grace gospel that everyone wants to buy, that everyone wants the pastors to preach."

I looked up cultured Christians and got; "Cultural Christians are non-religious persons who adhere to Christian values and appreciate Christian culture. As such, these individuals usually identify themselves as culturally Christians, and are often seen by practising believers as nominal Christians."

Nominal in this case means "in name only". They call themselves Christians based on their familial and or cultural heritage background. If they pray at all it's to ask God to get them out of something or to give them something materialistic. They see God as being like their good luck charm.

So yeah, of course they're not going to be interested in hearing what being a practicing Christian is about. If they go to a church, they're only looking to be told warm fuzzy fluff that makes them feel good about themselves.

HARK! said:

I don't see the word "alone" in either of those verses.

As a matter of fact Ephesians says that were saved by grace, not faith.

We are justified by works and faith.

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

Click to expand...

How would you differentiate saved by grace vs justified by works and faith?

HARK! said:

I wouldn't pit them against each other.

119 Ministries presents an in depth study on this subject. I agree with most of what they present in this study. Most of it comes directly from scripture.

Click to expand...

I meant the two words used, saved and justified. Both words can have different applications.

HARK! said:

The relationship is that we are saved by his love for us; and we are justified through our love for him.

Click to expand...

What's the difference between the two? Sorry, it's just not clicking.

HARK! said:

I don't see the word "alone" in either of those verses.

As a matter of fact Ephesians says that were saved by grace, not faith.

We are justified by works and faith.

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

Click to expand...

You have to be given faith first before any works are possible.

Do you believe the testimony of the scripture?

See how you go with the following verses.

Acts 2:21
And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Romans 9:13
For whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Romans 9:8-10
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

HARK! said:

I don't see the word "alone" in either of those verses.

Click to expand...

The Bible clearly states in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

You don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO. So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.

As a matter of fact Ephesians says that were saved by grace, not faith.

Click to expand...

Ephesians 2:8,9 clearly states we are saved by grace through faith, not works.

We are justified by works and faith.

Click to expand...

The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." When Paul uses the term "justified," he is referring to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the believer as righteous. James, however is using the term to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

Click to expand...

James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." That is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

@Danthemailman, so in other words they were not justified by their works, but rather their works justified their faith. Gave testimony to their faith.

MMXX said:

@Danthemailman, so in other words they were not justified by their works, but rather their works justified their faith. Gave testimony to their faith.

Click to expand...

Man is not accounted as righteous by works, but is shown to be righteous by works. The term "justified" has a duel meaning. Example: In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, (accounted as righteous by works) he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness." 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

Mountainmanbob said:

We are saved by works alone.
Christ works alone.
Book of Romans explains it well.
M

Click to expand...

Really? Please cite verses to support your view because the Bible clearly states we are saved by faith.

Are we not going to be judged according how we lived our lives? The work of God is to believe on the one whom he had sent, but also faith alone with out works (love), is dead. Loving God, and Loving our neighbour as ourself?

Romans 2:6 : "God 'will repay each person according to what they have done.

John 6:29 Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.”

James 2:
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.



OR is this wrong thinking?


The work of God is to believe: We believe because the Lord Jesus Christ loved us, we love him back. Love God with all your heart, mind, and soul, we love others back in return because of his love.

With faith and we have no love; we have nothing.

1 Corinthians 13:2 And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

Ephesians 2: 8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.

We are obviously saved by grace through faith but what you do with that faith is up to you.

(We do not go around boasting about the good works we do - Pridefulness of the flesh) We do good works because of loving God, and loving Him we love others.

MMXX said:

@Danthemailman, so in other words they were not justified by their works, but rather their works justified their faith. Gave testimony to their faith.

Click to expand...

Or even, good works will perfect your faith.

James 2:22
You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected.

So we understand what James was really saying in his letter, an active faith.

Brett Hooper said:

Thanks Brian,

I think part of the problem with modern Christianity is that we all refer to pastors, theologians and teachers too much rather than focusing on the Word of God. You mentioned 1 John, which also says:

And by this, we know that we know Him: if we keep His commandments. He that says, I know Him, and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whosoever keeps His word; truly, in him the love of God is made complete; and, through this we know that we are in Him. Thus he, that says he abides in Him, is also obligated himself: to walk just as He walked.

- 1 John 2:3-6
​

The point I am making is—there is a conditional statement here—if we know Him we keep His commandments. This does not seem to fit with assurance based on merely a claim of faith. Rather, in this passage our assurance seems to be from keeping His commandments.

Anyway Brian thanks for taking the time to chat with me on this topic, I think I will leave it there for now. Brett

Click to expand...

That's what Steve teaches. Perhaps in more exacting terms than you do. We need the perspective of gifted pastors, theologians and teachers - as much as anyone needs to read your book.

We should rely on the Bible first and foremost, but we benefit from others who have devoted their lives to studying and teaching the Bible. Being in the Word ourselves gives us the ability to discern quality teaching from poor teaching.