BLM member arrested for involvement in Capitol riot

BNR32FAN

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You simply handwaved in a bogus claim (with no evidence whatsoever) that they had a criminal history. When I showed you at that not all of them have such a history, you accuse *me* of "exaggerating the truth"? Wow.

I apologize but in my defense you only showed one example of a person who didn’t have a criminal history. You didn’t show anything about Jenna.
 
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Michael

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I apologize but in my defense you only showed one example of a person who didn’t have a criminal history. You didn’t show anything about Jenna.

The fact I showed you one (now at least two) who didn't have a criminal history, what makes you think they all (or most) had a criminal history?
 
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Michael

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Were the riots discussed by Trump?

The various chant's like "stop the steal" came right from the lips of the insurrectionists.

Where do you figure these people got such ideas from anyway? Who told them (falsely) that the election was stolen, or that Mike Pence personally had the authority to overturn the elections which led to the "Hang Mike Pence" chants?
 
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BNR32FAN

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The various chant's like "stop the steal" came right from the lips of the insurrectionists.

Where do you figure these people got such ideas from anyway? Who told them (falsely) that the election was stolen, or that Mike Pence personally had the authority to overturn the elections which led to the "Hang Mike Pence" chants?

So if I say we need to stop car theft and a group of people go around shooting car thieves then I’m responsible for the actions of these people?
 
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Michael

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So if I say we need to stop car theft and a group of people go around shooting car thieves then I’m responsible for the actions of these people?

You're intentionally *oversimplifying* the *long* series of nefarious events that led up to the riots.

For *months*, Trump and his congressional enablers have been falsely and maliciously claiming that there was wide spread voter fraud, in *spite* of failing to produce any such evidence in over 60 court cases.

Trump *personally* called for his supporters to come to Washington DC, on the 6th of January when the state certified electoral college votes were to be accepted by Congress, which is typically a mere formality. There was nothing anyone could legally do to overturn those results, particularly when the house was controlled by the Democrats. The whole concept of what Trump was asking for Pence to do was *unconstitutional*, illegal and seditious.

For weeks prior to the riots, Trump had been blatantly lying to his followers by suggesting that Mike Pence has the constitutional authority to overturn those results, when in fact he has *no such right* under the constitution. In fact, Pence didn't even have the opportunity to even cast any deciding votes in the matter, one way or another. In spite of the fact that Pence was one of Trumps most loyal supporters for more than four years, Trump intentionally put him in harms way by flat out lying to his soon to be riotous mob about Pence's ability to do anything about the final vote, resulting in chants to "Hang Mike Pence" and the erection of a makeshift gallows in front of the Capitol.

When Trump chose his "warm up speakers" at his "Save America" rally, he selected his *own personal lawyer* who specifically lied to the crowd about voter fraud, and stated that he wanted to see "trial by combat". The next speaker that Trump chose to speak told the crowd that he wanted them to go down to the Capitol and "kick ass".

Trump then spent the next *two hours* flat out lying to his deluded minions about a "stolen landslide election" and "voter fraud" and he told them to fight like hell or they wouldn't have a country left.

None of that nonsense was innocent, not even summoning his mob to DC on the 6th in the first place. There was *zero* possibility of overturning those election results on that day. None. Nothing he told the mob was even remotely true. It was all lies compounded upon lies, compounded upon more lies.

He then asked them to march down to the Capitol and that's when the riots began.

To now suggest that Trump is some sort of innocent victim in the resulting insurrection attempt is utter nonsense. Trump staged and facilitated the whole thing! Even 10 Republicans in the House have agreed that Trump personally incited sedition. It's not just *my* opinion, it's the collective bipartisan opinion of the House that Trump incited sedition.

What good could possibly have come from Trump summoning that mob to the Capitol that day? The only reason that Trump did that, and the only reason he has lied about the election results is because he's too narcissistic to admit being defeated in free and fair elections and he was trying *desperately* to hang on to power like a petty dictator. There was no possibility whatsoever that anything could or would change that day, *unless* of course the mob took things into their own hands and *violently overthrew* the government, which is exactly what they tried to do.

Your rationalizations are simply absurd IMO. There was nothing remotely innocent about Trumps lies and his repeated attempts to change the election results by *any means necessary*. Trump is a seditious traitor to this nation.
 
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BNR32FAN

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In other words you have no actual evidence they had a previous arrest record anymore than Trump has evidence of wide spread voter fraud.

No, which is why I said “I’d be willing to
bet”. This was intended to indicate that this statement was speculative and not intended as a statement of fact.
 
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RDKirk

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One is not able to prove a negative. The proof that needs to be presented is the proof that the remarks are what caused the riot.

Some of the rioters are saying their actions were evoked by Trump's words.
 
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BNR32FAN

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For *months*, Trump and his congressional enablers have been falsely and maliciously claiming that there was wide spread voter fraud, in *spite* of failing to produce any such evidence in over 60 court cases.

Which is why there was an investigation. And just for the record I’ve always held the position that a Trump lost fair & square and had serious doubts about the alleged election fraud. If he felt cheated, seeing that he does have access to a lot more information than you or I, then by all means why not hold an investigation on the matter? BIG DEAL WHO CARES? I’ve said this before, everyone keeps pretending that they knew that there was no election fraud which is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE but that didn’t stop people on either side of the argument from making conclusive claims based on nothing but pure speculation instead of just waiting for the results of the investigation. During the investigation they released updates on the results saying they had not found any evidence of fraud and people would say “see I told you there’s was no fraud” pretending like they knew something when in reality it was nothing more than a wild guess and they happened to be right. But the investigation still wasn’t completed at that time leaving it inconclusive to base any officially factual statement on other than what the investigators actually said which was they haven’t found any evidence yet. Now we are hearing that there were a small number of cases that are being further investigated so now those who were crying out “see I told you” look like idiots now for because they were acting like they knew something that they actually didn’t. This whole fiasco is the result of people who don’t care about being honest, they just want to promote their agenda. In short this has all been facilitated by a bunch of idiots on both sides who wouldn’t know the truth if it bit them and yet they talk as if they know something and continue spreading rumors and just flat out lies trying to discredit their opponents all the while discrediting themselves in the process for which they should all be ashamed.
 
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BNR32FAN

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You're intentionally *oversimplifying* the *long* series of nefarious events that led up to the riots.

For *months*, Trump and his congressional enablers have been falsely and maliciously claiming that there was wide spread voter fraud, in *spite* of failing to produce any such evidence in over 60 court cases.

Trump *personally* called for his supporters to come to Washington DC, on the 6th of January when the state certified electoral college votes were to be accepted by Congress, which is typically a mere formality. There was nothing anyone could legally do to overturn those results, particularly when the house was controlled by the Democrats. The whole concept of what Trump was asking for Pence to do was *unconstitutional*, illegal and seditious.

For weeks prior to the riots, Trump had been blatantly lying to his followers by suggesting that Mike Pence has the constitutional authority to overturn those results, when in fact he has *no such right* under the constitution. In fact, Pence didn't even have the opportunity to even cast any deciding votes in the matter, one way or another. In spite of the fact that Pence was one of Trumps most loyal supporters for more than four years, Trump intentionally put him in harms way by flat out lying to his soon to be riotous mob about Pence's ability to do anything about the final vote, resulting in chants to "Hang Mike Pence" and the erection of a makeshift gallows in front of the Capitol.

When Trump chose his "warm up speakers" at his "Save America" rally, he selected his *own personal lawyer* who specifically lied to the crowd about voter fraud, and stated that he wanted to see "trial by combat". The next speaker that Trump chose to speak told the crowd that he wanted them to go down to the Capitol and "kick ass".

Trump then spent the next *two hours* flat out lying to his deluded minions about a "stolen landslide election" and "voter fraud" and he told them to fight like hell or they wouldn't have a country left.

None of that nonsense was innocent, not even summoning his mob to DC on the 6th in the first place. There was *zero* possibility of overturning those election results on that day. None. Nothing he told the mob was even remotely true. It was all lies compounded upon lies, compounded upon more lies.

He then asked them to march down to the Capitol and that's when the riots began.

To now suggest that Trump is some sort of innocent victim in the resulting insurrection attempt is utter nonsense. Trump staged and facilitated the whole thing! Even 10 Republicans in the House have agreed that Trump personally incited sedition. It's not just *my* opinion, it's the collective bipartisan opinion of the House that Trump incited sedition.

What good could possibly have come from Trump summoning that mob to the Capitol that day? The only reason that Trump did that, and the only reason he has lied about the election results is because he's too narcissistic to admit being defeated in free and fair elections and he was trying *desperately* to hang on to power like a petty dictator. There was no possibility whatsoever that anything could or would change that day, *unless* of course the mob took things into their own hands and *violently overthrew* the government, which is exactly what they tried to do.

Your rationalizations are simply absurd IMO. There was nothing remotely innocent about Trumps lies and his repeated attempts to change the election results by *any means necessary*. Trump is a seditious traitor to this nation.

All of this is irrelevant unless Trump actually gave orders to attack the capital building which we have zero evidence to support. Your just as guilty as he is for making false accusations right now. Nothing he said in any way shape or form made him responsible for the actions of a bunch of idiots who decided to go attack the capital building of their own accord which is why he will be acquitted because it doesn’t take a genius to see that so far there hasn’t been a single piece of conclusive evidence incriminating Trump for conspiring to or committing insurrection. Until they find evidence that Trump clearly ordered or conspired with people to promote the attack nobody has the right to falsely accuse him of doing such. All you have presented is circumstantial evidence.
 
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Michael

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This whole fiasco is the result of people who don’t care about being honest, they just want to promote their agenda.

Indeed, starting with Trump, his personal lawyer, and half of the Republican leadership!

In short this has all been facilitated by a bunch of idiots on both sides who wouldn’t know the truth if it bit them and yet they talk as if they know something and continue spreading rumors and just flat out lies trying to discredit their opponents all the while discrediting themselves in the process for which they should all be ashamed.

I'm afraid you're sadly mistaken on the "both sides" claim. If you know anything at all about election processes, you know that all states go to *incredible* lengths to promote free and fair elections without bias. The people who run the elections run the full political spectrum, and they are "professionals" in every sense of the word. There are heavy penalties for committing voter fraud too.

All the democrats have done is "assume" that that various states held free and fair elections, and they 'certified' their results, just like every other election in modern history. They gave the various states the benefit of the doubt for doing their job honestly and fairly, even in states that voted for Trump. No Democratic congressman contested any state's results on the 6th, regardless of the outcome in that state.

On the other hand, Republicans, starting with the President have publicly proclaimed since the day after the election that there was wide spread voter fraud, with *no meaningful evidence whatsoever to support their false claim*, ever. Sure it was fine for Trump to "investigate" if he thought it warranted it, but even Bill Barr stated publicly that there was no evidence of wide spread voter fraud. For all the money spent on "investigations" by Trump, he systematically lost over 60 court cases and no states changed the outcome of their vote for President. Trump had fully exhausted every *legal* option available to him and failed, so instead he turned to *illegal* means to try to sway the outcome.

But even *after* "investigating" Bill Barr publicly stated that there was no evidence of wide spread voter fraud, and yet Trump *continued to lie* about it, right up to the moment that he sent his angry mob down to the Capitol.

The Democrats didn't summon a mob down to DC on the 6th. They didn't hold rallies to incite them or lie to them. They didn't do *anything* of the sort.

Your 'both sides' comment is just nonsense. All the democrats did is give the states the benefit of the doubt and *not* slander them publicly as the Republicans did. They didn't try to pressure state officials into 'finding" them thousands of votes. You're just making up excuses now that have no basis in reality.
 
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Michael

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All of this is irrelevant unless Trump actually gave orders to attack the capital building which we have zero evidence to support.

His own personal lawyer said to the crowd 'Let's have trial by combat". His other 'warm up' speaker told the crowd to "take names and kick ass". Trump continued to *lie* to his summoned angry mob right up to the very moment of the mob attack, and *then* he claimed to "love" them after the attack.

Your just as guilty as he is for making false accusations right now.

Nope. I saw what Trump did and what he said for *months*. I saw the House impeach him in a bipartisan manner for his actions too. I don't think the critique of his actions will begin and end with the Senate either. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to see the DC police issue a warrant for his arrest as soon as he leaves office.

Nothing he said in any way shape or form made him responsible for the actions of a bunch of idiots who decided to go attack the capital building of their own accord....

It's amusing that you keep hypocritically accusing me of making false accusations *before* the Senate trial even starts, while making blanket assertions about his innocence. Sheesh. Irony overload.

which is why he will be acquitted because it doesn’t take a genius to see that so far there hasn’t been a single piece of conclusive evidence incriminating Trump for conspiring to or committing insurrection.

The majority of the house disagrees with you, including 10 Republicans. I suspect however that the Senate trial is actually the least of Trump's worries. He loses his criminal immunity in just a few days and I'm sure the DC police have some questions for him.

Until they find evidence that Trump clearly ordered or conspired with people to promote the attack nobody has the right to falsely accuse him of doing such. All you have presented is circumstantial evidence.

Those 'circumstances' led directly to the riot. If Trump had simply been man enough, honest enough, and mature enough to admit being beaten in a fair election, none of this would have happened. We know this because in every case where the losing candidate admitted defeat, the transfer of power has been peaceful, even when the popular vote was won by the losing candidate.

If Trump had ever admitted to being beaten fairly *after* all his various so called 'investigations', none of this would have happened. If he told the truth like Bill Barr, none of this would have happened.

If Trump had not summoned his mob to the Capitol on the 6th, none of this would happened. If Trump would have told his minions the truth right before the march, none of this would have happened. It's only due to the statements and *actions* of Trump that this was *not* a peaceful transfer of power.

I've also provided you with direct evidence of his guilt from the lips of one of his rioters:

North Texan Jenna Ryan Tells CBS 11 She Deserves Pardon After Arrest For Alleged Role In Capitol Riot

“I don’t feel a sense of shame or guilty from my heart. I feel like I was basically following my president. I was following what we were called to do. He asked us to fly there. He asked us to be there. So I was doing what he asked us to do,”

There you have it. She told us all that she feels no shame because she believed that she was following the orders of Trump himself. He "asked" her to do it as far as she's concerned, so she did it, and she feels no shame about her actions.
 
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RDKirk

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All of this is irrelevant unless Trump actually gave orders to attack the capital building which we have zero evidence to support. Your just as guilty as he is for making false accusations right now. Nothing he said in any way shape or form made him responsible for the actions of a bunch of idiots who decided to go attack the capital building of their own accord which is why he will be acquitted because it doesn’t take a genius to see that so far there hasn’t been a single piece of conclusive evidence incriminating Trump for conspiring to or committing insurrection. Until they find evidence that Trump clearly ordered or conspired with people to promote the attack nobody has the right to falsely accuse him of doing such. All you have presented is circumstantial evidence.

Actually, "circumstantial evidence" is perfectly good evidence, acceptable in every court of the land.

Look it up.
 
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KCfromNC

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By your definition, most bar room brawls are "insurrections".
Can you link to, say, 10 bar room brawls which include a violent mob whipped up by the president attacking the US Capitol while Congress was certifying an election result the president contests?

Go ahead and take your time, I'll wait.
 
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KCfromNC

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I agree but I think both sides are equally at fault where one side seems to inflate the situation and the other seems to downplay it
Is this an attempt to blame Democrats for the violence by telling the truth that the election wasn't stolen?
 
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Michael

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Circumstantial evidence by itself is not enough to convict.

There is *plenty* of direct evidence in the form of testimony from the rioters themselves that they were simply doing what Trump told them to do.

Jenna Ryan said:
“I don’t feel a sense of shame or guilty from my heart. I feel like I was basically following my president. I was following what we were called to do. He asked us to fly there. He asked us to be there. So I was doing what he asked us to do,”
 
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