Can anyone be saved through living righteously?

rturner76 said:

I was looking at this passage in the Bible:

I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you received me in your homes, naked and you clothed me; I was sick and you took care of me, in prison and you visited me.’ “The righteous will then answer him, ‘When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you a drink? When did we ever see you a stranger and welcome you in our homes, or naked and clothe you? When did we ever see you sick or in prison, and visit you?’ The King will reply, ‘I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these members of my family, you did it for me!’

Will people like Gandhi, Tha Dali Lama, and other people who live to serve in soup kitchens and homeless shelters dedicating their lives to peace be given eternal life?

Click to expand...

There are none which meet the requirement of perfection. The problem of sin is like Coronavirus. No matter how unaffected one might be, ... you can still pass it on to others. The SOLUTION ... is to take the vaccine (let's conjecture). If you don't take the vaccine, ... you are a threat to everyone around you.

Of course, for some who truly desired the things of God, it may be that there have been confabs about which we are not aware ...

No.

The question is actually imprecise.

Can any human be saved through righteous living? Yes. One who perfectly upholds the law and is without sin can expect to be rewarded with eternal life. However, only one human meets this description and that's Jesus.

Can any sinner be saved through righteous living? No. Even a sinner's best deeds are stained with sin and like filthy rags. A sinner's best deeds - which are imperfect - cannot atone for his worst deeds. A sinner's sins are worthy of condemnation but so is a sinner's righteousness.

I would say they did not earn salvation by helping Jesus Christ's disciples. But, because of how they are loving and compassionate in honor of Jesus, they help His disciples, and how they are is what makes them ready to spend eternity with Jesus.

And it is written >

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:" > Hebrews 12:14.

So, how we are is essential. God prepares us so we are ready for Jesus, and in this process He makes us compassionate to help people.

However, there are people who refuse Christ, and then make gestures of helping people. And then ones even say, look how great we are and we do not follow Jesus. This is horrible. They are tricking people to suppose they can be great without God, and this can result in people missing out on spending eternity with Jesus. So, such people are not being nice, at all.

Jesus is so better than ones who do not honor God. So, their sort of goodness has nothing to do with all which Jesus desires to share with us.

You might do some good for people, but if you do not share with Jesus, you can not have the character which only Christ can give us.

Also, ones might know how sinful they are, and they try to bribe God by doing favors for needy people . . . but without obeying how Jesus says to become and love.

So, Jesus is not talking to and taking in ones who just made gestures. There is how you can relate with ones you help. There is how to relate in God's love, the way God's love has us become . . . not only out of guilt or fear of hell or fear of the suffering we see. And certainly Jesus does not mean how ones are doing a few or a lot of nice things in order to show they don't need Jesus. That is acting out of pride and the conceit of feeling they are too good for Jesus or He is not good enough for them.

By the way, some social activists are shutting out Christians from ministering where those activists have their humanitarian cause activities. Ones might be trying to bribe people with help, in order to keep them away from Jesus.

The verse in the OP is very clear that doing those things along with trusting in the very person who cited the parable, will give us eternal life. Read the following, or the rest of the scripture in the OP, and simply notice what happens to those who do not do those things.

Mathew 25:

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

So, assuming you mean doing good plus trusting in Christ for salvation, then the answer is yes, absolutely. As a matter of fact, as the above scripture clearly states, if we do not do those things in some form, as in giving money or what have you in order to help those in need, we will never be given eternal life.

Following is scripture straight from Jesus which drives the point home, and proves that we must do good if we want to recieve eternal life. Yes, I said must.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

it is always God's call. If God wants to make an exception He can.

rturner76 said:

I was looking at this passage in the Bible:

I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you received me in your homes, naked and you clothed me; I was sick and you took care of me, in prison and you visited me.’ “The righteous will then answer him, ‘When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you a drink? When did we ever see you a stranger and welcome you in our homes, or naked and clothe you? When did we ever see you sick or in prison, and visit you?’ The King will reply, ‘I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these members of my family, you did it for me!’

Will people like Gandhi, Tha Dali Lama, and other people who live to serve in soup kitchens and homeless shelters dedicating their lives to peace be given eternal life?

Click to expand...

Since we are being saved only by Grace (we can't be perfect enough on our own, and without Grace we'd fail), we need to learn (over time normally) how to walk in the spirit, follow Christ so that we can continue later in time to be following Him, instead of going off in some other direction away from Him.

The most direct summary of Grace/works is the one in Ephesians, and to understand it well we need John chapter 15 also --

1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 2 ESV

How is it that we "walk in" the "good works which God prepared" for us that we should do?

Only as we remain in/look to/abide/dwell in Christ can we, will we --

1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.

12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. 17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another."

John 15 ESV

To me, it seems very helpful it is a "command" -- because otherwise we might not realize when we go astray by some old habit we are too used to, and not accustomed to noticing isn't following Him.

We need to be able to realize when we do wrong on the thinking/mental/intellectual level, in addition to any pang of conscience, because feelings come in more than just the good variety (rightful feelings of guilt for doing actual wrongs), but also come in other confusing types (misleading feelings like lusting after someone not one's spouse for instance). Feeling alone isn't going to be enough of a guide for most of us.

We need to mentally understand when something is wrong.

So, that we love others being a commandment is very helpful, so that when we do slip up and stumble -- when we hurt others by not loving them -- when we stray away from God, leave God, become lost....

That we can understand the feeling of something wrong is valid, because we have a mental understanding we did a wrong. So that we can choose to confess/repent, and be restored: 1rst John chapter 1-2.

Kenny'sID said:

As a matter of fact, as the above scripture clearly states, if we do not do those things in some form, as in giving money or what have you in order to help those in need, we will never be given eternal life.

Click to expand...

Yes, we do not love, only by giving money, I would say, in case you mean this. But I now see how Jesus wants us to give ourselves, in love and sharing with ones we help.

I would say that doing loving things is included in being saved. They might not be an actual condition, but they are guaranteed to be there if we have trusted Jesus.

And so, if they are not there, what can this mean?

They are not a condition, but a guaranteed inclusion.

So, Jesus can judge us, either way > "Did you trust in Me?" or, "Did you do what comes because of loving Me?"

"we who first trusted in Christ," we have in Ephesians 1:12.

And we have >

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

So, after we have trusted in Jesus, God's correction brings the perfection of His love in us. Hebrews 12:4-14 guarantees how our Father corrects His children. We become like Jesus, in this love, so we are ready to spend eternity with Jesus as our Groom. To me, Romans 8:29 shows how becoming like Jesus is included in the main focus of all God does.

But this love has us doing loving things for His disciples, which Jesus mentions in your scripture @rturner76 in the original post, here.

So, it is a package deal. We have trusted in Jesus, instead of trying to pay God off with our own works, indeed. But in Christ's love maturing in us, we do loving things for His disciples. And because Jesus so appreciates what we do for the least of His brethren, He does say, "You did this for Me; so enter in."

But what matters so much is the quality of love in which we have done it, so we are not only giving handouts, but we are tenderly sharing with His ones whom we help, loving as family > Ephesians 4:31-32. And this loving prepares us for sharing as family for eternity.

com7fy8 said:

But what matters so much is the quality of love in which we have done it, so we are not only giving handouts, but we are tenderly sharing with His ones whom we help,

Click to expand...

Isn't it interesting that Christ, in both of the scriptures I cited, mentions nothing of love, but only that we must do what we must do. The doing shows the love, the love for Christ as in being obediant to what he tells us to do, and the love for those we help.

com7fy8 said:

Yes, we do not love, only by giving money, I would say, in case you mean this.

Click to expand...

We show our love by giving money.

com7fy8 said:

I would say that doing loving things is included in being saved

Click to expand...

It's included if we include it, and we include it, or else.

com7fy8 said:

They are not a condition, but a guaranteed inclusion.

Click to expand...

There are no guarantees, God forces us to do nothing, we either do it, or we do not. And the scriptues cited, in there simplicity, before we add what you have added, makes it very clear, there are conditions. Do what Christ said, and go to heaven, don't do as he said, and don't. And that does not mean we are trying to buy our way to heaven, but that we are being obediant to the Christ that saves us.

Why people insist on adding to scripture when they know better is beyond me.

rturner76 said:

...Will people like Gandhi, Tha Dali Lama, and other people who live to serve in soup kitchens and homeless shelters dedicating their lives to peace be given eternal life?

Click to expand...

Bible tells eternal life is a gift for righteous people. Righteous people do righteous things. But the works are only like a fruit that tells is the tree good or bad. People should do good things, even without any reward, because it is good and right. If one does good only to get salvation or something else, it really is not very good or righteous, because the motive is wrong.

If some people have done good things, because they understand it is good and want freely that, it can be counted righteousness for them and then they can be acceptable to eternal life, because they have that right understanding and want to do good. But it is not because of the works, but because their mind is righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
Mat. 5:20

In my opinion.

God looks at peoples hearts.


God can be seen everywhere, and most obviously through people confessing faith in God.

This being the case.

Only God can judge people.

If you live a life of service yet hate people and do not believe or want nothing to do with God, then that might be a little bit iffy on that possibility, and a totally different story.

rturner76 said:

I was looking at this passage in the Bible:

I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you received me in your homes, naked and you clothed me; I was sick and you took care of me, in prison and you visited me.’ “The righteous will then answer him, ‘When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you a drink? When did we ever see you a stranger and welcome you in our homes, or naked and clothe you? When did we ever see you sick or in prison, and visit you?’ The King will reply, ‘I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these members of my family, you did it for me!’

Will people like Gandhi, Tha Dali Lama, and other people who live to serve in soup kitchens and homeless shelters dedicating their lives to peace be given eternal life?

Click to expand...

You will note they are called the righteous. They did those things because they were righteous, it didn't make them righteous.

Rom.3:20-22
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. 21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

Only God is 100% right on all things all the time because He is knowing all things always. Therefore only by His word can we be right for no matter how clever or good we may be, there will always be a point where we do not know the right way from our own understanding and must trust His word. If we fail at one point of being right, then we have failed being right at all points.

Only through faith can one be righteous.

rturner76 said:

The prevailing idea is that we can only become righteous through faith in Christ. Living a life of giving to others or a life of service is done in vain in terms of receiving a spiritual reward.

Click to expand...

Because that is what the scriptures teach.

Most of you don't follow this but here is something I read in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
CHAPTER TWO

GOD COMES TO MEET MAN

50 By natural reason man can know God with certainty, on the basis of his works.

Click to expand...

Even at the most primitive level of knowing God exists, it is revealed by Him. I assume the above should be reading His works (meaning God), not his works (meaning man)

Romans 1:19
since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

Man cannot come to God on the basis of his own merit. His reason alone is not enough. There is no "other" order of knowledge. God is the source of all knowledge for He alone is All Knowing.

rturner76 said:

Is it possible to have faith and obedience in God if it is not the revalation of the Abrahamic God? Are faith and obedience only rewarded if you learn the Revelation of Christ?

If so, why does God send billions of people who have obedience and faith in an all powerful entity to hell?

Click to expand...

There is only One God so if what has been revealed is not from Him then how can that person be having faith in Him? God judges people on what they have been given. Who says He sends billions to hell? Do you think Melchizedek knew he was worshiping the Lord Jesus Christ?

Why is it, that so many who claim to have faith, think they are better prepared to judge souls than the Lord who is Love and whose mercies never end. Can you not trust Him to do what is right? No-one goes to hell on the basis of getting it wrong, they go to hell because they have rejected God and what He has revealed and they will always reject Him no matter what He showed them. This is why they must be separated eternally from those who love righteousness.

rturner76 said:

Here it seems to say, man through natural reason and works, can on his own, come to know God on a basic level. By learning about God through the divine revelation of the prophets and Jesus Christ, we can come to the full knowledge of God.

Click to expand...

I agree. God isn't constrained in any way by Christianity and people can have a relationship with Him outside of it. But I believe for that relationship to be at it's fullest and most intimate it has to be a relationship with Christ.

rturner76 said:

If so, why does God send billions of people who have obedience and faith in an all powerful entity to hell?

Click to expand...

That's not compatible with a loving God so He doesn't.

rturner76 said:

I was looking at this passage in the Bible:

I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you received me in your homes, naked and you clothed me; I was sick and you took care of me, in prison and you visited me.’ “The righteous will then answer him, ‘When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you a drink? When did we ever see you a stranger and welcome you in our homes, or naked and clothe you? When did we ever see you sick or in prison, and visit you?’ The King will reply, ‘I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these members of my family, you did it for me!’

Will people like Gandhi, Tha Dali Lama, and other people who live to serve in soup kitchens and homeless shelters dedicating their lives to peace be given eternal life?

Click to expand...

"if we stumble in the darkness there is no light in us". I believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved". What compels us to read the Bible? The Bible is light.

My guess is no. The Bible says that no one seeks God (Jesus Christ). If we seek Jesus Christ it is because there is light in us but what compels us to read and meditate on the Bible? The Bible says that Jesus Christ or God chooses who is saved. Read the following from www.thephilosophyforum.com by a daoist.

______________________
The mad fool wrote the below from www.thephilosophyforum.com

I must warn you that what I have to say in this post is probably not as well thought out as I'd have liked it to be as I'm neither a mathematician nor a coder but my intention isn't really to prove a point as much as it is to explore the topic which I will make clear in the following paragraphs.

As far as I'm aware, the idea that reality could be an illusion has been around since Descartes' deus deceptor. In the modern computer age, this theory has morphed into what we call simulated reality, the gist of this being that what we experience as reality could be generated by a sufficiently complex program, similar to, although more advanced than, the ones we use on a daily basis, run on a powerful enough computer.

For this theory of reality being a simulation to fly, it's necessary that the program that codes the simulation be finite for if not the program can't be completed/finished let alone executed on a computer.

In light of the above necessary truth, consider the matter of irrational numbers. We know that,

1. Irrational numbers exist
2. Irrational numbers have an infinite decimal expansion
3. There's no repetition of number sequences in irrational numbers

I'm somewhat aware that some irrational numbers can be calculated using a formula e.g. square roots of prime numbers can be calculated with a formula and a formula can easily be encoded in a program. However, there are some irrational numbers that can't be calculated with a formula. Such numbers, satisfy the three conditions I mentioned above but that means a program that codes for such numbers would require a separate line of code for each digit in such numbers as the digits aren't reducible to a pattern that can be encoded with a loop statement in the code. Plus, the digits in such numbers are infinite which means that such numbers would require an infinite number of statements in the code but if that's the case, the program, as I said earlier, can't be completed and so would never be actually run on any computer.

To sum up, the existence of irrational numbers that aren't formula-based proves that the reality we're living in isn't a simulation because the program required to encode for them would have to be infinite.

If I've made any errors please cut me some slack and redirect your attention to the notion of patternless infinities, like irrational numbers that aren't formula-friendly, as pertains to reality being a computer simulation for the simple reason that a program that encodes patternless infinities can never be finished as each element in such infinities will require a separate line of code and that translates into a program that has to be infinite. An infinite program can't be completed so can't be run. Reality, given the existence of patternless infinities, can't be a simulation.

_______________
So in short, righteousness is temporary for us and Jesus Christ (God) chooses who will recieve the light of the Bible. The more we meditate on the Bible the more light we will get from the Bible.

Our good works are like filthy rags.
We are terrible , or at least i know i am , thank God for grace.

Lg2000 said:

Our good works are like filthy rags.

Click to expand...

Are you sure you're not proof texting here? We are commanded to do good works.