Biden's economic plan requires Socialism.

KCfromNC · Dec 1, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
When did this happen?

Never, which is why it is weird to bring up the fact that changes might potentially lead to problems while ignoring that the current system itself is far from perfect (to put it mildly).

KCfromNC · Dec 1, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
The government prints money to fuel capitalism and free enterprise, not socialism.

Yes, I know, which is one of the reasons that the idea that "A government created economy is by definition socialism." is a bad definition.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 1, 2020

Desk trauma said:
But enough about our farm subsidizes.

Going back to what I actually posted, the plans of the president elect do not involve implementing socialism not matter how hard you harp on a feel good empty phrase within them.

I didn't say they did. I said that in order to implement his plan socialism would be necessary. This is true of most liberal economic plans over the years.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 1, 2020

Speedwell said:
Right, so we're back to where we always were--that "socialism" is just a word that means giving your hard-earned tax dollars to people whose lifestyle choices you disapprove of.

That's indeed part of it.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 1, 2020

Sparagmos said:
Using your definition of communism, I don’t see how “handouts” to the disadvantaged is automatically communism. It does not require the government to collect all production and distribute it equally. We give people “handouts” now, under a clearly capitalistic system.

Handouts aren't payouts.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 1, 2020

dzheremi said:
What would you call it when the American taxpayer effectively foots the bill in terms of shoring up the federal tax base that is not contributed to by a giant corporation like Amazon, which didn't pay anything in 2017 and 2018 (and actually received a refund of $129 million in 2018, thanks to tax credits and deductions)?

It'd be hard to call Amazon "indolent", but surely before making claims about who Americans are willing to share their hard-earned money with, a wider net should be cast than just "myself or the dirty rotten so-and-so's who refuse to work". I'm willing to bet that if you asked the average American worker if they were willing to contribute more so that mega-corporations wouldn't have to pay any (or so that other mega-corporations could get away with paying poverty level wages to the point that their employees need to be on federal assistance despite working full-time jobs, as is the case with regard to Walmart), they'd say no. You need only look at how the article on Amazon at the first link begins to get a sense of that -- and that's a story about them finally paying taxes!

If company invests profits in new growth, which includes more employment, those 'profits' become deductible business expenses. The credo of American business is "grow or die", thus all the tax breaks.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 1, 2020

KCfromNC said:
Yes, I know, which is one of the reasons that the idea that "A government created economy is by definition socialism." is a bad definition.

Under capitalism the government provides money to buy lumber and nails. Under socialism the government builds the house.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN · Dec 1, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Government can't afford to insure everyone without seriously limiting medical services.

If other countries can . America can. Unless America is a third world country.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 1, 2020

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:
If other countries can . America can. Unless America is a third world country.

America is quite a bit different than other countries. And we do resemble third world countries in some ways.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN · Dec 1, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
America is quite a bit different than other countries. And we do resemble third world countries in some ways.

I agree , the way COVID-19 was worse than a third world country. But we should be better ,than 3th world countries. As for heath care in America needs to do better.

Desk trauma · Dec 1, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
I didn't say they did.
I said that in order to implement his plan socialism would be necessary. This is true of most liberal economic plans over the years.

Well that's some lovely non-sense.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 1, 2020

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:
I agree , the way COVID-19 was worse than a third world country. But we should be better ,than 3th world countries. As for heath care in America needs to do better.

The only solution to the healthcare problem is better lifestyle choices regarding health. Sadly we're going in the wrong direction, and the healthcare industry can't keep up. We even have a tv show featuring grotesquely obese people: "My 600 Pound Life".

OldWiseGuy · Dec 1, 2020

Desk trauma said:
Well that's some lovely non-sense.

Well, it's like a person who wants to build a house. They need certain tools and materials to do it. Biden needs socialism to build his 'house' (although I doubt if he realizes it).

Desk trauma · Dec 1, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Well, it's like a person who wants to build a house. They need certain tools and materials to do it. Biden needs socialism to build his 'house' (although I doubt if he realizes it).

Yeah, how could someone realize that their plan requires something that it in no way calls for nor necessitates. Oh, right, they used a phrase.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 1, 2020

Desk trauma said:
Yeah, how could someone realize that their plan requires something that it in no way calls for nor necessitates. Oh, right, they used a phrase.

More than a phrase. He revealed that he wants to provide everything for everyone. To accomplish this he must use all the force of government, which requires adopting a socialist economic scheme.

Desk trauma · Dec 1, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
More than a phrase. He revealed that he wants to provide everything for everyone. To accomplish this he must use all the force of government, which requires adopting a socialist economic scheme.

That's quite the ability to read in volumes of things that are not there.

Sparagmos · Dec 1, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Handouts aren't payouts.

Handouts was the word you used.

One of the problems with calling anything the government does for the people socialism or communism is that people are then more open to socialism and communism. At least that’s a problem if you want people to oppose socialism and communism. The hyperbole and pearl clutching isn’t helping.

If a majority of Americans want to pool resources in certain areas of the economy because we think it will benefit all of us and be more cost effective, then as a democracy we can do that. If conservatives don’t want that, then they need to come up with plans to address the problems that the people want solved - i.e. the ridiculous cost of healthcare and higher education.

Sparagmos · Dec 1, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
More than a phrase. He revealed that he wants to provide everything for everyone. To accomplish this he must use all the force of government, which requires adopting a socialist economic scheme.

Surely you don’t believe that? He’s not even appointing progressives to his cabinet. He ran against Bernie’s European-model socially democratic policies. He refuses to adopt the green new deal as a policy. Socialists hate him and only supported him to get Trump out. When you call anyone to your left a Marxist, no one will take you seriously.

Strathos · Dec 1, 2020

Albion said:
That mistake is what I was attempting to address in the previous post. The definition of Socialism is not "there is some government in existence."

If the government does anything at all, you appear to me to be are saying that this makes that government Socialist or at least partly Socialist. It doesn't.

I'm just using the definition that the OP is using, where he seems to assume that any kind of publicly funded government program means socialism.

Albion · Dec 1, 2020

Strathos said:
I'm just using the definition that the OP is using, where he seems to assume that any kind of publicly funded government program means socialism.

But are you meaning to agree with that definition?

Biden's economic plan requires Socialism.

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