Grace and Works broken down

Devin Hammond · Nov 26, 2020

Guojing said:
You consider disagreement an insult?

I have provided the necessary scripture for my argument already.

Honestly you haven’t provided anything and your position is nonsensical.

Guojing · Nov 26, 2020

Devin Hammond said:
Honestly you haven’t provided anything and your position is nonsensical.

I already stated 1 Cor 3:10-15 in this thread correct?

You must have missed that?

Devin Hammond · Nov 26, 2020

RickReads said:
The works of the righteous will be a judgement to receive rewards. You can`t bank enough good deeds to buy your life.

Do you have scripture to back up your position or is this just your pet doctrine?

Devin Hammond · Nov 26, 2020

Guojing said:
I already stated 1 Cor 3:10-15 in this thread correct?

You must have missed that?

What is your point in sharing that scripture?

Devin Hammond · Nov 26, 2020

Hebrews 12:14 says that, “Without holiness no man shall see the Lord”.

Matthew 7:13-14 Jesus says that, “Narrow is the road and very few find it.”

Matthew 5:20 Jesus tells us that, “Our righteousness must surpass that of the Scribes and Pharisees in order to enter the kingdom of heaven.”

Matthew 7:21-23 States that, “Many who think they are Christians are not”. It also states that, “We must do the will of the Father in order to enter heaven.”

Guojing · Nov 26, 2020

Devin Hammond said:
What is your point in sharing that scripture?

You were the one that asked "Please show me a single scripture that states that there will be multiple judgements."

Devin Hammond · Nov 26, 2020

Guojing said:
You were the one that asked "Please show me a single scripture that states that there will be multiple judgements."

How does that scripture possibly suggest that there will be more than one judgement?

RickReads · Nov 26, 2020

Devin Hammond said:
Do you have scripture to back up your position or is this just your pet doctrine?

I`m not sure. You seem like the type of Hebrew Roots that rejects Paul`s epistles since you are so open about your works for salvation theology.

Guojing · Nov 26, 2020

Devin Hammond said:
How does that scripture possibly suggest that there will be more than one judgement?

Because that is for the Body of Christ, and its not for salvation but rewards, as vs 15 indicated

The Great White Throne is for those who believe during the Great Tribulation.

Devin Hammond · Nov 26, 2020

RickReads said:
I`m not sure. You seem like the type of Hebrew Roots that rejects Paul`s epistles since you are so open about your works for salvation theology.

Honestly I think that Paul”s writings can be hard to understand (2 Peter 3:16) also it’s possible that the early church under Paul’s guidance fell into apostasy somewhat and we can see this in the doctrine of the seven church ages and the church Ephesus who left it’s first love. Many people believe that Paul was the angel of that church age.

I take scripture as a whole and I don’t just pull out one or two passages that are to my liking. I’ve been giving many scriptures here to support my position and none of them have been addressed.

Devin Hammond · Nov 26, 2020

Guojing said:
Because that is for the Body of Christ, and its not for salvation but rewards, as vs 15 indicated

The Great White Throne is for those who believe during the Great Tribulation.

Nope. That scripture doesn’t say that. It’s simply talking about the same judgement we see in Matthew 25:31-46 which is the one final judgement at the end of the age where both rewards and punishment were given.

GraceBro · Nov 26, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
Ephesians 2:8-10
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

So we can break down this passage into 10 points that show how faith, grace and works can be in harmony with one another in the Salvation process.

1- by grace we are saved
2- it is through faith
3- not from ourselves
4- its a gift from God
5- not by works
6- no one can boast- about their works regarding salvation
7- those saved are Gods workmanship
8- created in Christ
9- to do good works- post salvation
10- God prepared those works in advance for us- to do those works as a result of being saved.

PS- I sometimes find that breaking down a passage point by point helps me to see the bigger picture better than if I'm just reading it as one complete sentence.

hope this helps !!!

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent (John 6:28-29)."

Devin Hammond · Nov 26, 2020

GraceBro said:
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent (John 6:28-29)."

What does it mean to sincerely believe?

Even the demons believe and shudder (James 2:19).

Guojing · Nov 26, 2020

Devin Hammond said:
Nope. That scripture doesn’t say that. It’s simply talking about the same judgement we see in Matthew 25:31-46 which is the one final judgement at the end of the age where both rewards and punishment were given.

You do recognize the distinction between 1 Cor 3:15 that states

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

vs Matthew 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

One is lack of rewards but you are still saved, the other, you are burning in hell with Satan.

You still want to argue its the same judgement?

Devin Hammond · Nov 26, 2020

Guojing said:
You do recognize the distinction between 1 Cor 3:15 that states

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

vs Matthew 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

One is lack of rewards but you are still saved, the other, you are burning in hell with Satan.

You still want to argue its the same judgement?

In Matthew 25:31-46 we see the sheep receiving the rewards not the goats.

You seem to be thoroughly confused.

That person who was saved in 1 Corinthians 3:15 was still a sheep.

It’s describing a Christian who had some of his works burned up.

Guojing · Nov 26, 2020

Devin Hammond said:
In Matthew 25:31-46 we see the sheep receiving the rewards not the goats.

You seem to be thoroughly confused.

That person who was saved in 1 Corinthians 3:15 was still a sheep.

It’s describing a Christian who had some of his works burned up.

You do agree then, that the judgement stated in 1 cor 3 is not to determine salvation correct?

Devin Hammond · Nov 26, 2020

Guojing said:
You do agree then, that the judgement stated in 1 cor 3 is not to determine salvation correct?

No, I don’t agree.

There is only one judgement day and that is the Great White Throne when Jesus Christ returns to judge the sheep and the goats.

All nations will be gathered before him (Matthew 25:32). This is a universal judgement to decide both salvation and rewards.

Guojing · Nov 26, 2020

Devin Hammond said:
No, I don’t agree.

There is only one judgement day and that is the Great White Throne when Jesus Christ returns to judge the sheep and the goats.

All nations will be gathered before him (Matthew 25:32). This is a universal judgement to decide both salvation and rewards.

You have that doctrine because you are not aware that the apostle Paul had new revelations revealed to him by the ascended Christ, for us in the body of Christ

And no, that is not an insult.

RickReads · Nov 26, 2020

Devin Hammond said:
Honestly I think that Paul”s writings can be hard to understand (2 Peter 3:16) also it’s possible that the early church under Paul’s guidance fell into apostasy somewhat and we can see this in the doctrine of the seven church ages and the church Ephesus who left it’s first love. Many people believe that Paul was the angel of that church age.

I take scripture as a whole and I don’t just pull out one or two passages that are to my liking. I’ve been giving many scriptures here to support my position and none of them have been addressed.

Well, you probably won`t get a whole lot of action today. I know I don`t have time to do it but maybe later tonight. Feel free to leave me some of your ideology and when I get time later I`ll come back and refute it.

Meantime, here`s my verse about works you asked about previously. You can get reward for works but you cannot get life for them.

"Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy: for thou renderest to every man according to his work."

Devin Hammond · Nov 26, 2020

Guojing said:
You have that doctrine because you are not aware that the apostle Paul had new revelations revealed to him by the ascended Christ, for us in the body of Christ

And no, that is not an insult.

What revelations are those? Paul the Apostle never mentioned more than one judgement. Please show me where Paul states that there is going to be more then one judgement.

Grace and Works broken down

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