Confused about the before and afterlife

Hrairoo

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So, I was born and raised in the LDS church and ever since very young, I have heard the same story of the premortal existence where the plan of salvation was presented by Jesus Christ and the alternative plan was presented by Christ and our brother, Lucifer. I was taught that the afterlife consists of three kingdoms which are basically heaven for Non-believers, Christians, and Elite Mormons and that we are essentially god in embryo here to be tested.

I no longer believe in the Book of Mormon or any LDS doctrine but I am very lost on how to fill in the picture once the Mormon stuff is taken out. What do real Christians believe about life before we were born on this earth? What do you believe about Lucifer and how he came to be Satan(do you believe Lucifer and Satan are the same person)? What is Christ's plan of salvation? Do you know the answers to why we are here? What is next? What is Heaven?

Anyone can answer. Bible scripture would be beloved. Anything that can be presented as a balm for my tumultuous spirit would be greatly appreciated.
 
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rnmomof7

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So, I was born and raised in the LDS church and ever since very young, I have heard the same story of the premortal existence where the plan of salvation was presented by Jesus Christ and the alternative plan was presented by Christ and our brother, Lucifer. I was taught that the afterlife consists of three kingdoms which are basically heaven for Non-believers, Christians, and Elite Mormons and that we are essentially god in embryo here to be tested.

I no longer believe in the Book of Mormon or any LDS doctrine but I am very lost on how to fill in the picture once the Mormon stuff is taken out. What do real Christians believe about life before we were born on this earth? What do you believe about Lucifer and how he came to be Satan(do you believe Lucifer and Satan are the same person)? What is Christ's plan of salvation? Do you know the answers to why we are here? What is next? What is Heaven?

Anyone can answer. Bible scripture would be beloved. Anything that can be presented as a balm for my tumultuous spirit would be greatly appreciated.

Gods knowledge, like God himself always existed ...We existed in the "mind" of God , in the plan of God for all eternity past.. but we did not physically exist until Gods time for us was fulfilled.. So I had no "time" before God ordered my birth .. My days are numbered by God and my physical life will end in His time.. but He created my soul for eternal existance .

I am Calvinist.. so I believe that Satan was a part of Gods plan..God was not "surprised " when Satan rebelled, because that was always Gods purpose ..God placed Satan in the garden .We are not given a clear picture of when Satan rebelled.. It actually might have been before Adam was created ... He is never referred to as an angel as such..but as party of the heavenly host

Without Satan we would not have a full picture of God.. we would not understand His holiness, His goodness and His mercy.. all of Gods attributes are visible to fallen man because of the fall and the salvation found in Christ....

Scripture does tell us that Christ was crucified before the foundation of the world ... God has always been and will always be sovereign over all things
 
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BobRyan

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So, I was born and raised in the LDS church and ever since very young, I have heard the same story of the premortal existence where the plan of salvation was presented by Jesus Christ and the alternative plan was presented by Christ and our brother, Lucifer. I was taught that the afterlife consists of three kingdoms which are basically heaven for Non-believers, Christians, and Elite Mormons and that we are essentially god in embryo here to be tested.

I no longer believe in the Book of Mormon or any LDS doctrine but I am very lost on how to fill in the picture once the Mormon stuff is taken out. What do real Christians believe about life before we were born on this earth? What do you believe about Lucifer and how he came to be Satan(do you believe Lucifer and Satan are the same person)? What is Christ's plan of salvation? Do you know the answers to why we are here? What is next? What is Heaven?

Anyone can answer. Bible scripture would be beloved. Anything that can be presented as a balm for my tumultuous spirit would be greatly appreciated.

1. Real Christians as you say - do not believe that people lived a "before life" and no Bible text says that such thing as a "before life" even exists.

2. Lucifer was a sinless Angel - one of the top angels - and he fell due to his pride read Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 to see Bible prophets switch contexts and start talking about Lucifer and his fall.

3. Lots of Bible topics and texts to go through - but a short summary -- can be found with tons of detail - Will send you a link

Bottom line is that God created this universe - and Heb 1 says he "created the worlds" - so also does Hebrews 11 say that. A perfect universe with sinless angels. But Lucifer fell and took 1/3 of the good angels with him (see Revelation 12) -- God then created this world with Adam and Eve on it... see Genesis 1-3. Lucifer appeared in the form of the serpent to Eve in the garden of Eden and tempted Adam and Eve to sin- which they did.

Then God banished them from the Garden of Eden - remove access from the tree of life and though pre-flood mankind lived for over 900 years in most cases - still they all died of old age eventually..

God's plan was to send Christ to die for the sins of mankind - to pay the debt that we owed for sin - and and then as Jesus said in John 14:1-3 to come again - and receive us to Himself - taking the saints to heaven and destroying the wicked.

Will send a link
 
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St_Worm2

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What do real Christians believe about life before we were born on this earth?
Hello brother, I'll do my best to answer these for you. First off though, I see that you are brand new around here, so WELCOME TO CF :wave:

As for life before we were born, there was none according to the Bible. That said, those of us who become God's children by adoption have been known and loved by Him from everlasting .. Jeremiah 31:3; Ephesians 1:4-6, but only God is actually from everlasting. Unlike the LDS, Christians believe that the Lord called the universe (all of space/time itself) into existence .. from nothing .. e.g. Hebrews 11:3, so He is truly our "Creator".

We believe that we are, as the Bible tells us, woven together in the womb of our mother under the supervision of God, both body and soul .. e.g. Psalm 139:13-16. So there are no "soul banks" like the LDS believe exist in Christianity. That said, we believe we have a beginning, but no ending. So we are not from everlasting (like God), but we will live to everlasting with Him (or apart from Him, if you do not know Him/are not "born again" and "in Christ")
What do you believe about Lucifer and how he came to be Satan (do you believe Lucifer and Satan are the same person)?
Satan is a fallen archangel, and he is now the leader of the fallen angels or demons. He is referred to as our "enemy", because that is exactly what he is. He is known as Lucifer, Satan, the devil, the serpent of old (we believe that he was the serpent that tempted our first parents in the Garden of Eden), and a number of other names .. see What are the names of Satan? | GotQuestions.org. And as the Lord Jesus tells us in the Bible, Satan is not only a liar, he is the father of lies, and a murderer from the beginning .. e.g. John 8:44.
What is Christ's plan of salvation?
I'll explain this in more detail in my next post to you (because I'm afraid that this post will become too long if I do so here), but here are some verses to consider in the meantime .. John 3:16, 5:24; Romans 6:23, 10:9-10; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Ephesians 2:1-5, 8-10.
Do you know the answers to why we are here?
This is another big subject, but the most concise/general answer I know of is this one from the Westminster Shorter Catechism, Q & A #1.

Q: What is the chief end of man?
A: Man's chief end in to glorify God(1), and to enjoy Him forever.(2)
  • 1 Corinthians 10:31. Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Romans 11:36. For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
  • Psalms 73:24-26. Thou shalt guide me with thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory. Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee. My flesh and my heart faileth: but God isthe strength of my heart, and my portion for ever.
    John 17:22-24. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one... Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
What is next? What is Heaven?
Christians believe that we go to be with Lord in Heaven upon our deaths (while our bodies lie interred in the ground). We further believe that our bodies will be resurrected at the end of this age, and that we will live with God on the new earth in our resurrected/imperishable/glorified bodies, bodies like the Lord Jesus Himself has now.

See 2 Corinthians 5:1-10; 1 Corinthians 15:35-57; Isaiah 65:17-18; 2 Peter 3:10-13; Revelation 21:1-4.

God bless you!

--David
p.s. - I hope to have time later tonight to address your question about salvation. If I cannot do so tonight, I will tomorrow (Dv).

2 Corinthians 5
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

.
 
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thecolorsblend

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So, I was born and raised in the LDS church and ever since very young, I have heard the same story of the premortal existence where the plan of salvation was presented by Jesus Christ and the alternative plan was presented by Christ and our brother, Lucifer. I was taught that the afterlife consists of three kingdoms which are basically heaven for Non-believers, Christians, and Elite Mormons and that we are essentially god in embryo here to be tested.

I no longer believe in the Book of Mormon or any LDS doctrine but I am very lost on how to fill in the picture once the Mormon stuff is taken out. What do real Christians believe about life before we were born on this earth? What do you believe about Lucifer and how he came to be Satan(do you believe Lucifer and Satan are the same person)? What is Christ's plan of salvation? Do you know the answers to why we are here? What is next? What is Heaven?

Anyone can answer. Bible scripture would be beloved. Anything that can be presented as a balm for my tumultuous spirit would be greatly appreciated.
There is a lot about events that happened before the creation of man that is not completely known or understood in mainstream Christianity. There are a lot of educated guesses people can make, some of which have a lot of history behind them, but not much is known for absolute certain.

The devil and his followers are understood to have rebelled against God in some way and subsequently been cast out of Heaven.

A crucial issue for ex-Mormons is a clearer understanding of Jesus and His identity. Christians regard Him as the Son of God, but that is an idiom intended to describe His place in the Holy Trinity. He is God in the flesh. Fully God and fully man. I do not believe that tallies with the Mormon understanding of Him and His identity, which is one reason a lot of mainstream Christians tend not to accept Mormon baptisms. Because their Christology is so flawed, according to our own point of view, that their baptism is considered suspect.

None of this is intended to bash on you or other Mormons/ex-Mormons.

Mainstream Christians also have a different understanding of the afterlife. It's a bit of a tricky subject but the basic rule is that only those who believe in and obey Christ will go to Heaven while those who do not will go to Hell. Invariably, someone will want to nuance that, which is fine. But in general, that's how it is.

My point is that, obviously, that paradigm differs significantly from the Mormon understanding of the afterlife.

You've asked quite a few big questions and we are happy to have you here with us. Good on you for making the right decision. My PM's are open if you have any questions, if that helps.
 
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St_Worm2

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Hello again @Hrairoo, we Christians believe that there is but ONE God, period, not a different God for every inhabited planet out there like Mormons believe. We also believe that the one Being who we refer to as God, exists both from and to everlasting as three individual Persons that make-up the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Three Persons of the Godhead, NOT three Gods.

The Trinity defines (safeguards and circumscribes) the Biblical "mystery" of the Godhead that we believe/teach is true because the Bible tells us that it is (even though we cannot fully comprehend it/fully comprehend God's Trinitarian nature) .. Genesis 1:26; John 1:1-4, 14; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; John 8:56-58.

Here is a graphic that may prove useful.

Trinity Triangle - larger.gif

--David
p.s. - just to be clear, God was always God. He has neither a beginning nor an end. He was not created/He was never a man!
 
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SkyWriting

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So, I was born and raised in the LDS church and ever since very young, I have heard the same story of the premortal existence where the plan of salvation was presented by Jesus Christ and the alternative plan was presented by Christ and our brother, Lucifer. I was taught that the afterlife consists of three kingdoms which are basically heaven for Non-believers, Christians, and Elite Mormons and that we are essentially god in embryo here to be tested.

I no longer believe in the Book of Mormon or any LDS doctrine but I am very lost on how to fill in the picture once the Mormon stuff is taken out. What do real Christians believe about life before we were born on this earth? What do you believe about Lucifer and how he came to be Satan(do you believe Lucifer and Satan are the same person)? What is Christ's plan of salvation? Do you know the answers to why we are here? What is next? What is Heaven?

Anyone can answer. Bible scripture would be beloved. Anything that can be presented as a balm for my tumultuous spirit would be greatly appreciated.

God gives man the "breath of life" so that begins your life.
Lucifer and Satan - no real details
Christ's plan of salvation - salvation through faith that Jesus is sufficient.
Do you know the answers to why we are here? -
Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Luke 6:31
And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

Matthew 7:1-29
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. ...

2 Timothy 3:17
That the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Philippians 2:3-8
Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests but also to the interests of others.
 
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Hrairoo

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Thank you everyone for the explanations and the scriptures. I had heard many years ago that the Mormon idea of life before and after was unique to Mormonism. So, as I have been going through this process of shedding the religion, it struck me with a bit of confusion on what to replace these odd doctrines with since it is all I've ever known. These scriptures will give me a great place to start in prayerful study in laying foundations for me being born again in Christ.

my next area of study is to be the nature of Christ himself and reasserting my focus to his ministry and teachings. But this idea of spirit children and multiple gods and planets is the most characteristic thing in Mormon theology(aside from priesthood authority but that was easy for me to reject at the beginning of this process) that I tackled it first.

Thank you again. If I have any more questions, I will definitely ask.
 
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Rescued One

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So, I was born and raised in the LDS church and ever since very young, I have heard the same story of the premortal existence where the plan of salvation was presented by Jesus Christ and the alternative plan was presented by Christ and our brother, Lucifer. I was taught that the afterlife consists of three kingdoms which are basically heaven for Non-believers, Christians, and Elite Mormons and that we are essentially god in embryo here to be tested.

I no longer believe in the Book of Mormon or any LDS doctrine but I am very lost on how to fill in the picture once the Mormon stuff is taken out. What do real Christians believe about life before we were born on this earth? What do you believe about Lucifer and how he came to be Satan(do you believe Lucifer and Satan are the same person)? What is Christ's plan of salvation? Do you know the answers to why we are here? What is next? What is Heaven?

Anyone can answer. Bible scripture would be beloved. Anything that can be presented as a balm for my tumultuous spirit would be greatly appreciated.

Hello and welcome! I haven't read this thread yet, and it wil take me awhlie because I think I have attention deficit!

I'm also a former Mormon. I joined when I was eighteen. The missionaries came one month and I was baptized about two weeks later. My father was an atheist and my mother a deist who did not attend church nor teach any of her children to pray. My parents divorced when I was nearly nine. Dad was in the military so we seldom saw him. My mom ended up with a total of two divorces
and three failed marriages. Her third marriage ended in a separation after a year, and the birth of her sixth child. The third husband died a few years later; he was an alcoholic(in his forties) who died of cirrhosis of the liver. My mother was addicted to moving (sometimes to other states). She didn't mind changing jobs, seldom made friends, and thought I was more sensitive to upheaval and changing schools than her other children. I liked the emphasis that LDS put on family and thought our family life might improve. Those missionaries hadn't told me that temple marriage and working towards godhood were requirements for eternal life! They didn't even tell me that we should become gods and goddesses! I was obedient and read the Book of Mormon (not inspired by it), kept the Word of Wisdom, and paid a full tithe, attended the meetings, etc. I stayed in that church for many years thinking that someday I could believe those strange teachings. After many years I decided to read the Bible and God opened my eyes to many truths.

I've been studying my Bible and Mormonism for over 50 years and will try to answer your questions. It might take me a while to begin.

(Edited because I accidently omitted a word.)
 
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Rescued One

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...So there are no "soul banks" like the LDS believe exist in Christianity. That said, we believe we have a beginning, but no ending.

Please allow me to make a small correction:

Mormons teach that a soul is body and spirit united. The pre-mortal spirit is not yet a soul. It is sent to earth to gain a body. At death body and spirit are separated. At the resurrection, they are united again and will never again be separated.

I truly love your post and all the Bible references!
 
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Rescued One

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So, I was born and raised in the LDS church and ever since very young, I have heard the same story of the premortal existence where the plan of salvation was presented by Jesus Christ and the alternative plan was presented by Christ and our brother, Lucifer. I was taught that the afterlife consists of three kingdoms which are basically heaven for Non-believers, Christians, and Elite Mormons and that we are essentially god in embryo here to be tested.

I no longer believe in the Book of Mormon or any LDS doctrine but I am very lost on how to fill in the picture once the Mormon stuff is taken out. What do real Christians believe about life before we were born on this earth? What do you believe about Lucifer and how he came to be Satan(do you believe Lucifer and Satan are the same person)? What is Christ's plan of salvation? Do you know the answers to why we are here? What is next? What is Heaven?

Anyone can answer. Bible scripture would be beloved. Anything that can be presented as a balm for my tumultuous spirit would be greatly appreciated.

When I left, there was no internet. The internet has been helpful. I was sad and lost, too. I hadn't made any friends that weren't Mormon. I wondered if there were any ex-Mormons where we lived. It was so strange that not long after we were invited to dinner to the home of one of my husband's acquaintances. While his wife was finishing dinner preparations the husband put on a record of the Mormon Taberbacle Choir and I told him that we used to be Mormons. He said, "So was my wife."
Eventually I met other ex-Mormons.

Looking over your questions, I'd say that St_Worm2 has done a marvelous job. He certainly knows his Bible.
 
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Bob Crowley

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What do real Christians believe about life before we were born on this earth? What do you believe about Lucifer and how he came to be Satan(do you believe Lucifer and Satan are the same person)? What is Christ's plan of salvation? Do you know the answers to why we are here? What is next? What is Heaven?

Please note that this will be from a Catholic perspective, and you may find some disagreement from other Christians.

1. Lucifer and Satan are just different names or terms for one and the same "fallen angel". He's certainly not Christ's brother. Hell is his kingdom. He's totally evil, even though at one stage he was an archangel.

In strict terms the last line of the Lord's Prayer (or the "Our Father" as we Catholics call it) would be better translated "... save us from the evil one".

2. Christ's plan of salvation is not just a "believe and be saved" once only decision. He expects us to imitate Him in so far as we can, and to continue in our Christian walk. However He opened the gate to salvation with His redeeming sacrifice on the cross.

He expects communal Christianity in that He would expect us to belong to a Christian community. There's no such thing as an autonomous Christian.

I could go on about the Eucharist, but I'll leave it at that for the moment.

3. As to why we're here, God has a plan for your life, but it's up to you to cooperate with Him in finding out what that will involve. Some of it at least will be judged on how you treat other people. Sometimes it takes quite a bit of time before God's plan for you becomes clear, and you most likely won't find out the full details until you've passed from this world.

4. What is next? Well, that depends on where you're at right now. I'd suggest you start looking around for a good Christian community to join, if you haven't already.

5. Heaven is a place of perfection, in what might be called living in a state of constantly perceiving the "beatific vision". I've posted a link below that might be of some interest.

What does it mean to see God? | U.S. Catholic magazine - Faith in Real Life

There will only be two ultimate fates - heaven or hell. One will be absolute eternal bliss, the other absolute eternal horror.

Catholics and some other denominations accept a third temporary state called Purgatory. It is a place of cleansing and anyone who goes to Purgatory eventually gets to heaven, even if it might take a long time in some cases. The fact is that most of us, including faithful Christians, take some un-heavenly baggage with us when we die, and we won't get into heaven until we are literally perfect. Hence the need for cleansing after death.

As to judgement, the Catholic teaching is that particular or personal judgement takes place immediately after death. The general or final judgement will come at the end of time, and that will be an overpowering spectacle.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I will attempt to answer these questions in two ways:

1) I will attempt to offer what I believe is a traditional, and historic Christian position on these subjects and
2) I will attempt to answer biblically based on what I believe is a faithful and critical analysis of relevant Scripture

Others may disagree, and that's fine. But I am trying to provide a fairly broad answer.

So, I was born and raised in the LDS church and ever since very young, I have heard the same story of the premortal existence where the plan of salvation was presented by Jesus Christ and the alternative plan was presented by Christ and our brother, Lucifer. I was taught that the afterlife consists of three kingdoms which are basically heaven for Non-believers, Christians, and Elite Mormons and that we are essentially god in embryo here to be tested.

I no longer believe in the Book of Mormon or any LDS doctrine but I am very lost on how to fill in the picture once the Mormon stuff is taken out. What do real Christians believe about life before we were born on this earth?

Nothing. Before we were conceived and born we just didn't exist.

The historic, orthodox Christian position is known as creationism. Now, that might be confusing, as this isn't about how to read the creation story in Genesis. Creationism, here, refers to God creating the individual human soul in the womb. So that when we are conceived bodily in the womb, God creates our soul and the body is ensouled.

So we aren't embodied souls, but rather ensouled bodies.

What do you believe about Lucifer and how he came to be Satan(do you believe Lucifer and Satan are the same person)?

In general usage, yes. Lucifer is simply another name for the devil. Satan was an angel that fell.

That said, I personally tend to argue, based on a critical analysis of the relevant passage of Scripture that where we get "Lucifer" as a name for the devil isn't talking about the devil, but a mere human being.

In Isaiah there is a rebuke against the king of Babylon, and part of this rebuke is that the king of Babylon sardonically called "day-star", or more literally is called by the ancient name given to the planet Venus, this word is translated as lucifer in Latin, meaning "light-bringer". Lucifer is simply the Latin translation here, and it's not the only place where this word gets used in the Latin translation of the Bible. In the New Testament St. Peter calls Christ the "morning star", which is again translated as "lucifer" in Latin.

In fact, "Lucifer" was a name given to a number of early Christians, including Christian saints. Such as St. Lucifer of Cagliari.

But over time the passage in Isaiah came to be read in an anagogical way which hinted at describing the fall of Satan. And so the prophecy against Nebuchadnezzar is seen as having another meaning, that of the fall of Satan. And given the importance the Latin Bible had in the Western Church for so long, the word lucifer came to be used as another name for Satan.

So it's really a question of how we read that particular passage in Isaiah. Is there a deeper meaning in the passage behind the more literal explicit meaning.

What is Christ's plan of salvation?

God's plan of salvation is what we read about in the Bible, the unfolding story of redemption that begins with Abraham and culminates in God, the Eternal Word and Son, becoming man, conceived of the Virgin Mary, and who by His life, death, and resurrection restores us to life and communion with God, so that we might have life not only in this life, but eternal life in the Age to Come when God makes all things new.

Do you know the answers to why we are here?

That's a tough existential question, I think big picture the reason why anything exists at all is because God created it, and because it is good. Our existence is intrinsically good, the problem is sin and death which has broken and wounded creation, and that is why we need to be reconciled to God in Christ, and which is why we hope and look forward to the resurrection of the dead, and the renewal of all creation--a new heavens and a new earth.

What is next?

In relation to what? After this life? Well what happens after death isn't something anyone can answer, because there's nobody to answer that question from personal experience, and God hasn't really revealed much. But Scripture does speak of our being absent from the body and present with the Lord, and describes God's saints and martyrs around His throne. Exactly what that all means exactly and all the details is anyone's guess--but there is enough to confess and belief that between the death of the body and the resurrection of the body, we go and rest in God's presence. This is usually described as "going to heaven".

At Christ's coming the dead will be raised, and God will restore and renew all of creation, we read in the Apocalypse of St. John (aka the book of the Revelation) that God will make His abode with man on earth, and so we shall always and forever be with God, even as God fills and illuminates all things forever and ever, ages unto ages of ages, to endless unfathomable glory.

What is Heaven?

Biblically speaking, it depends. In Hebrew the word is always plural, so it is always "the heavens", rather than singularly "heaven". And very often simply means "all that stuff up there". But Scripture also speaks of God as being "in the heavens", but also that He is way beyond and above the heavens. So God says, "The heavens are My throne and the earth is My footstool" and we read where Solomon after building the Temple says, "The heavens, not even the highest heavens, can contain You! How much less this house which I have built?"

But this association is a strong one, and so "heaven" is very often conceived as being "where God is", though this isn't really that literal, because God is everywhere. He is everywhere, and is beyond all things, and fills all things. So in that sense "heaven" here isn't about location, it's not "up there", it's not a place at all. It's really about God's Divine and Regal presence as the King of everything, He rules over all, and "heaven" is a way of describing His sovereign rule as king. Which is also why in the Gospel of Matthew we often see "kingdom of heaven", where in the Gospels of Mark and Luke we see "kingdom of God"--these are the same thing. It refers to God's rule, His kingly power, it describes God-as-King. And so in this case "heaven" is simply a euphemism for God.

So "Heaven" therefore is where God is, though "where" is a weird way to phrase it, since God is everywhere--there is no where God isn't.

But what really matters, at least in terms of what it means when this mortal life has expired, that we will be with God, we will enjoy Him in His rest until the resurrection--and we are with God forever and ever in the Age to Come.


-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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I really think that if one wants to start really grounding themselves in basic, orthodox Christian theology, the best place to start is by becoming familiar with the historic Creeds of the Church.

The most important of these is the Nicene Creed. It doesn't have too much to say about some of the questions you raise, but it is still really important to be grounded in the Creed and the language it uses to express Christian faith.

One thing that may also be important here is that in a lot of ways historic Christian teaching on a lot of eschatological issues is pretty vague. There are certain definitive teachings: We are with Christ in heaven after we die, Christ will return, the dead will be raised bodily, there will be the Last Judgment, God will renew all creation, etc. But there isn't necessarily the same level of precision here necessarily as there is in Mormonism--and that's because the historic Christian faith has avoided trying to get too technical or to engage in speculation in areas where we simply don't have an answer. If God has not revealed something then it is best to avoid trying to say more than what God Himself has already said.

So, for example, when we talk about the soul, it is going to be perhaps more nebulous and ambiguous--like, what even is the soul? In a lot of ways our language about the soul has been influenced by Greek philosophical ideas, and this can be both good and bad. It can be good where it provides us with some helpful terminology, but bad if we take certain ideas too seriously. So what will generally be said is that the human soul refers to the rational, moral, emotional, and volitional dimension of human existence--we have reason, we are morally responsible for our actions, we have feeling, and we have a will by which we make choices. The soul is therefore often connected with the idea of being conscious, aware. It's not this ethereal stuff, or thing that inhabits my body. Rather, it is both that animating principle, that animating breath of life, that distinguishes a living thing from a corpse; as well as being the rational, moral, willful aspects of my living-breathing humanity.

That's certainly a definition, but you'll notice that it's also kind of nebulous, hard to pin down exactly. But that's also a good thing in a way, it means we aren't saying more than we should. We aren't saying too much which leads us toward possibly erroneous and heretical views.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Bro.T--2

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So, I was born and raised in the LDS church and ever since very young, I have heard the same story of the premortal existence where the plan of salvation was presented by Jesus Christ and the alternative plan was presented by Christ and our brother, Lucifer. I was taught that the afterlife consists of three kingdoms which are basically heaven for Non-believers, Christians, and Elite Mormons and that we are essentially god in embryo here to be tested.

I no longer believe in the Book of Mormon or any LDS doctrine but I am very lost on how to fill in the picture once the Mormon stuff is taken out. What do real Christians believe about life before we were born on this earth? What do you believe about Lucifer and how he came to be Satan(do you believe Lucifer and Satan are the same person)? What is Christ's plan of salvation? Do you know the answers to why we are here? What is next? What is Heaven?

Anyone can answer. Bible scripture would be beloved. Anything that can be presented as a balm for my tumultuous spirit would be greatly appreciated.


What do real Christians believe about life before we were born on this earth?

Everything that is made comes with a set of instructions. Whether it is home appliances, toys, automobiles, pet accessories, clothing, food, etc. Man is no different. Man was created by God and given an instruction manual, that if read and followed carefully, he would be able to make the best of his life given him on earth. Man's instruction manual is called the Bible. The definition of Bible from World Scope Encyclopedia reads: "The book held by Christians and Jews to contain the word of God and to be of divine authority. The word Bible is derived from Medieval Latin,"biblia" in the singular number, and means a book. The Greek form of the word is a plural and means books. As commonly used it signifies the book, in comparison with which other books or writings are unworthy; or if they be called books, then the Bible becomes the book of books. The Latin word scriptura = writing, scripturae = writings, convey the idea that the scriptures are the only writings worthy of being called writings; therefore, they are of higher standing than all other books.”

With that established, let me say that any knowledge that man has of God he got it out of the Bible. All preachers preach, or teach their congregations from the Bible. If you really look close, you will see that all of man's laws have the Ten Commandments as their foundation. Now before we go any further, let's establish this very important point. "Knowing this first that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” (2Peter 1:20-21)

Also, let me show you that God's word is contained in a book. This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success". (Joshua 1:8) "Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read". (Isaiah 34:16) "The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book". (Jeremiah 30:1-2)
Let's look and see what the writings in the Bible are good for. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” (2Timothy 3:16-17)

Words are what man uses to communicate with, one to another. Words are powerful, and Jesus is called the Word of God. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men".(St. John 1:1-4) "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.” (Revelation 19:11-13)

The Bible contains the truth, and the truth is the Word of God, which is the real life of man. "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." (St. John 17:6, 8, &17) And Jesus answered him saying, "It is written, that man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God." (St. Luke4: 4) "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." (St. John 6:63)
 
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Bro.T--2

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So, I was born and raised in the LDS church and ever since very young, I have heard the same story of the premortal existence where the plan of salvation was presented by Jesus Christ and the alternative plan was presented by Christ and our brother, Lucifer. I was taught that the afterlife consists of three kingdoms which are basically heaven for Non-believers, Christians, and Elite Mormons and that we are essentially god in embryo here to be tested.

I no longer believe in the Book of Mormon or any LDS doctrine but I am very lost on how to fill in the picture once the Mormon stuff is taken out. What do real Christians believe about life before we were born on this earth? What do you believe about Lucifer and how he came to be Satan(do you believe Lucifer and Satan are the same person)? What is Christ's plan of salvation? Do you know the answers to why we are here? What is next? What is Heaven?

Anyone can answer. Bible scripture would be beloved. Anything that can be presented as a balm for my tumultuous spirit would be greatly appreciated.

What do you believe about Lucifer and how he came to be Satan(do you believe Lucifer and Satan are the same person)?

The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God: Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee: With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures: (Ezekiel 28:1-3) 



This is not an ordinary man, notice the clue. Thou are wiser than Daniel? The prince of Tyrus is a Gentile, how can he be wiser than Daniel when it comes to the word of God. Israel possesses the oracles/word of God.

Remember that Satan is the god of the Gentiles that have not came under the commonwealth of Israel. This man is Satan; Satan is wiser than Daniel take a look. 



Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.( Ezekiel 28: 12-13) 



Do you recall the king of Tyrus in the Garden of Eden? I do recall the serpent which is called the devil and also Satan.

Let's see who this really is. 

Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. (Ezekiel 28:14-15)



Now we see this is not a man, but a cherub angel. In some cases the Lord calls angels men. But notice something; this cherub which is Satan had some authority. He actually was on the mountain of God, until he sinned. We should pay close attention to that. What happened when Satan sinned against God? 

Take a look. 

By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty; thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground; I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. (Ezekiel 28:16) 



Lets take a look at Isaiah 14: 2 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. (Luke 10:18-20)

What happened when he got full of himself? He was thrown out. When the Lord blesses us with knowledge, wisdom and also understanding be careful not to get full of yourself and forget whose blessings it is and were it came from. It is the Lord's, not our own.















 
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ChristServant

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So, I was born and raised in the LDS church and ever since very young, I have heard the same story of the premortal existence where the plan of salvation was presented by Jesus Christ and the alternative plan was presented by Christ and our brother, Lucifer. I was taught that the afterlife consists of three kingdoms which are basically heaven for Non-believers, Christians, and Elite Mormons and that we are essentially god in embryo here to be tested.

I no longer believe in the Book of Mormon or any LDS doctrine but I am very lost on how to fill in the picture once the Mormon stuff is taken out. What do real Christians believe about life before we were born on this earth? What do you believe about Lucifer and how he came to be Satan(do you believe Lucifer and Satan are the same person)? What is Christ's plan of salvation? Do you know the answers to why we are here? What is next? What is Heaven?

Anyone can answer. Bible scripture would be beloved. Anything that can be presented as a balm for my tumultuous spirit would be greatly appreciated.



We are not meant to know all things, this is where I believe satan gains so much ground in the Christian churches, he uses our arrogance, pride, self righteousness and our nature, telling us we should know all things. These weaknesses we have for knowing all things, leads us away from more important matters in scripture and causes divisions amongst us.

This so called special knowledge churches believe they have is leading to denominations believing they are special to GOD and above other denominations and people, they all profess to have the Spirit of GOD working in them and giving them the true knowledge but are so far apart in their belief systems and from one another, it is unreal. GOD's Spirit does not divide the body of Christ, satan and his followers do.

We are told to be of one mind "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus" and "Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind."
We are told to "Test all things; hold fast what is good".

We are told to"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.

Seek GOD's truth only not doctrine truth's according to man, even if GOD's truth is more difficult to follow.

To answer your questions

What is Christ's plan of salvation?
We are all sinners guilty before GOD deserving of death and hell for eternity.
We must acknowledge our sins against GOD and truly repent of them which means a change and put our faith in the blood and sacrifice of Christ for our sins.
We are to be baptised and receive the Holy Spirit which will lead us into all truths and help guide us in our walk to bring us ever closer to GOD the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ in spirit and truth.

Do you know the answers to why we are here?
We are here with free will to chose between salvation, serving GOD or damnation, serving self, either you pay the price for your sins or Christ does.

What is next?
Death then Judgement. “Death and Judgement. "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,"

What is Heaven?
Again this is something no one really knows but we are told the riches we will receive will be much more than we can think of. “Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, [a]John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

Search all these things out, do not take another person’s word as gospel, no matter their status in any church or organisation. “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;”

Hope this helps some what with your journey.


Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him

We no longer look to be served. We look to serve and give our lives for others. No longer fight for privilege, influence and status. We esteem others better than ourselves and put their interests above our own.

Peace be with all those in the body of Christ
 
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Sketcher

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What do real Christians believe about life before we were born on this earth?
We didn't exist before we were conceived in the womb. God foresaw us, and had a will concerning us, but we did not exist.

What do you believe about Lucifer and how he came to be Satan(do you believe Lucifer and Satan are the same person)?
He was a ranking angel in Heaven who rebelled against God, getting a third of the angels in Heaven to follow him (Revelation 12). The rebellion failed. His complete motivations for doing so are unknown, as they are not recorded in Scripture.

What is Christ's plan of salvation?
Jesus died and rose again, paying our sin penalty, so that those who believe in him may be saved. The Gospel of John gets into this more, as does Peter's sermon in Acts 2. Paul expounds on this further in Romans and his other letters. Galatians, Colossians, and Ephesians all touch on aspects of this. Hebrews is good for looking at Jesus as a fulfillment of what God said was coming in the Old Testament.

Do you know the answers to why we are here? What is next? What is Heaven?
Christianity tells us very little about these. The first question's best answer is found in Ephesians 2:10, since our new life in Christ has a purpose. I don't know God's reasons for giving me physical life or for redeeming me so I could have spiritual life, but I do know that he wants me to take advantage of the opportunities to do good that he sets before me. After this life will come a judgment (Matthew 25:31-46, 1 Corinthians 3:11-15), and after the judgment, Heaven, and Heaven will have no more suffering or strife (Revelation 21). While we get hints such as marriage will no longer exist (Matthew 22:30), what life in Heaven looks like specifically is not told of in Scripture. I think of it as God's big surprise.
 
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