What About Progressive Sanctification?

RickReads said:

He knew me before He made me, He made it my destiny to become like Jesus, He called me when I was lost, He justified me with His blood, He glorified me with His Holy Spirit and I am sanctified, sealed till the time of the 1st resurrection.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Click to expand...

Again you avoided the questions.

Bible Highlighter said:

But what fear are you talking about? Loss of a comfortable life here? Or loss of salvation?

Click to expand...

Fear of losing salvation.

Jesus is YHWH said:

and there are none that say one can lose Eternal life. In fact its just the opposite we can KNOW we have Eternal Life. 1 John 5:11-13.It is a promise and Jesus gives Eternal Life to His sheep and nothing or no one can snatch or take one of them from His hands or the Fathers- John 10. Paul says the same thing in Romans 8 that NOTHING or NO ONE can separate us from Christ and names every possible scenario in this life. Paul says in Ephesians 1 that the Holy Spirit is given to us as a GUARENTEE of our inheritance, its a pledge, a down-payment for our future with Christ in eternity.

hope this helps !!!

Click to expand...

Amen no one can snatch His sheep from The Father’s hands. If I’m holding a rabbit and I say no one can snatch this rabbit from my hands does that mean that I said the rabbit cannot jump from my hands or that I cannot throw the rabbit from my hands? No it means no third person can remove the rabbit from my hands.

Jesus is YHWH said:

and there are none that say one can lose Eternal life. In fact its just the opposite we can KNOW we have Eternal Life. 1 John 5:11-13.It is a promise and Jesus gives Eternal Life to His sheep and nothing or no one can snatch or take one of them from His hands or the Fathers- John 10. Paul says the same thing in Romans 8 that NOTHING or NO ONE can separate us from Christ and names every possible scenario in this life. Paul says in Ephesians 1 that the Holy Spirit is given to us as a GUARENTEE of our inheritance, its a pledge, a down-payment for our future with Christ in eternity.

hope this helps !!!

Click to expand...

Did Paul include sin as one of the things not being able to separate us from the love of God? No he didn’t.

Jesus is YHWH said:

and there are none that say one can lose Eternal life. In fact its just the opposite we can KNOW we have Eternal Life. 1 John 5:11-13.It is a promise and Jesus gives Eternal Life to His sheep and nothing or no one can snatch or take one of them from His hands or the Fathers- John 10. Paul says the same thing in Romans 8 that NOTHING or NO ONE can separate us from Christ and names every possible scenario in this life. Paul says in Ephesians 1 that the Holy Spirit is given to us as a GUARENTEE of our inheritance, its a pledge, a down-payment for our future with Christ in eternity.

hope this helps !!!

Click to expand...

“In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:13-14‬ ‭NASB

Yes we have received the Holy Spirit as a promise to God’s pledge of His promise (the New Covenant) This doesn’t mean we don’t have to hold up to our side of the contract.

BNR32FAN said:

“In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:13-14‬ ‭NASB

Yes we have received the Holy Spirit as a promise to God’s pledge of His promise (the New Covenant) This doesn’t mean we don’t have to hold up to our side of the contract.

Click to expand...

do you believe a person can reach a state where they no longer sin ?

Jesus is YHWH said:

And there are numerous passages that declare Eternal Life is a completed action and a present one.

John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life;

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:47
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 6:54
54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 10:27-30
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed out of death into life,

Click to expand...

Ok so far no one will address my scriptures. I’d really like to hear how eternal security does not contradict these verses. So far every time I post them they just get ignored.

Paul writes to Timothy and tells him that if he or Timothy denies Christ then Christ will deny them.

It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭NASB

How can a person be severed from Christ and fall from grace and still be saved without repentance? These people must repent in order to be rejoined with Christ, they cannot stay in their current state of seeking to be justified by the law and be saved.

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:4‬ ‭NASB

Jesus tells His 11 faithful apostles that they must abide/remain in Him otherwise they will be cast away to wither and cast into the fire to be burned. Furthermore Jesus clearly indicates that they are capable of failing to remain in Him in verse 7 where He says “IF you abide in Me”. This is a clear indication that even Jesus’ 11 faithful apostles were capable of failing to remain in Him. If they were incapable of turning away from Christ then the word “IF” in that statement would’ve been replaced with since or because.

“"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-10‬ ‭NASB

Now how can these be possible if a person cannot lose their salvation?

Jesus is YHWH said:

do you believe a person can reach a state where they no longer sin ?

Click to expand...

Not in this life.

zoidar said:

I said we CAN die spiritually because of sin. I don't think it's a question of being "unborn", but rather we are still born again but have quenched the Holy Spirit. I don't think we can be born again twice. I haven't found any scripture that clearly states that. The only way to be "unborn" from my view, is by renouncing Christ, and that is blashemy against the Spirit, where there is no return.

Click to expand...

I gotcha now. I believe being born again is about receiving a new heart with new desires. In regards to being born again of the Spirit, I believe this is a result of the Holy Spirit changing our heart.

As for being born of water: I believe this is having an awakening by the Spirit to God's Holy Word (the Bible). Meaning, the seed of the Word of God was planted in our heart via by our belief in His Word. I believe that being born of water will eventually lead a believer to the truth in Sola Scriptura, and to the truth that the KJB is our final Word of authority, and that every word in our Bible is 100% true and trustworthy.

Today, there are people who reject parts of God's Word because either

(a) They don't like what it says, or
(b) They think the Bible has errors in it.

You said:

I do agree to what you say. I was just about to push the "agree button" when I saw you wrote: "These things would not exist in Scripture if things are as you say."

Click to expand...

Ah, okay. My bad. I misunderstood you.

Jesus is YHWH said:

And there are numerous passages that declare Eternal Life is a completed action and a present one.

John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life;

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:47
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 6:54
54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 10:27-30
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed out of death into life,

Click to expand...

None of these say that a person is saved regardless of what they do. These say that a person has been saved but not that they cannot lose their salvation.

Jesus is YHWH said:

do you believe a person can reach a state where they no longer sin ?

Click to expand...

Sinless Perfection (which I believe is more about putting away non-mortal sins) is not a topic that is allowed to be discussed at length in this secton of the forums. I believe that Christians must overcome mortal sin at some point in their life as a part of eternal life. If not, then one is just signing a letter to the effect that they will do evil yet again in the future as a matter of fact and that God is okay with that. I don't believe God can agree that we must commit mortal sin again. That would be like saying we cannot stop drinking, fornicating, swearing, etc. Even unbelievers can overcome alcoholism and sex addiction by the use of worldly programs. But God is so much more powerful than any worldly program.

2 Corinthians 7:1, Galatians 5:25, and 1 Peter 4:1-2 are verses you have to ignore or twist in order to make your belief true here.

Bible Highlighter said:

Sinless Perfection (which I believe is more about putting away non-mortal sins) is not a topic that is allowed to be discussed at length in this secton of the forums. I believe that Christians must overcome mortal sin at some point in their life as a part of eternal life. If not, then one is just signing a letter to the effect that they will do evil yet again in the future as a matter of fact and that God is okay with that. I don't believe God can agree that we must commit mortal sin again. That would be like saying we cannot stop drinking, fornicating, swearing, etc. Even unbelievers can overcome alcoholism and sex addiction by the use of worldly programs. But God is so much more powerful than any worldly program.

2 Corinthians 7:1, Galatians 5:25, and 1 Peter 4:1-2 are verses you have to ignore or twist in order to make your belief true here.

Click to expand...

I'm not promoting sin for the 100th time. Shall we continue is sin(practice sin) that grace may about? May it never be !

Galatians 5:19-22
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Jesus is YHWH said:

I'm not promoting sin for the 100th time. Shall we continue is sin(practice sin) that grace may about? May it never be !

Galatians 5:19-22
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Click to expand...

Then why did you agree in the other thread that king David was saved WHILE he committed his sins of adultery and murder? Is that not saying the same thing?

Jesus is YHWH said:

do you believe a person can reach a state where they no longer sin ?

Click to expand...

So then a believer can sin and still be saved, right?
For do you believe that a Christian loses salvation when they sin?
If not, then that is teaching that one can sin and still be saved.

Jesus is YHWH said:

I'm not promoting sin for the 100th time. Shall we continue is sin(practice sin) that grace may about? May it never be !

Galatians 5:19-22
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Click to expand...

Also, the word “practice” is not in the King James Bible in regards to this passage.

Bible Highlighter said:

Then why did you agree in the other thread that king David was saved WHILE he committed his sins of adultery and murder? Is that not saying the same thing?

Click to expand...

Where we disagree is that a one time sin causes a person to lose salvation. Your belief makes Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David and Peter lose their salvation for their various types of sin such as lying, fornication, murder, hypocrisy etc....

hope this helps !!!

Bible Highlighter said:

Also, the word “practice” is not in the King James Bible in regards to this passage.

Click to expand...

doesn't matter what the KJV translates the word in the Greek is what counts.

4238 prássō – properly, the active process in performing (accomplishing) a deed, and implying what is done as a regular practice – i.e. a routine or habit

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4238: πράσσω
πράσσω and (once viz. Acts 17:7 R G) πράττω; future πράξω; 1 aorist ἔπραξα; perfect πέπραχά; perfect passive participle πεπραγμενος; from Homer down; the Sept. several times for עָשָׂה and פָּעַל; to do, practise,

nuff said................

RickReads said:

Post #210. I don`t have time for games. Where the rubber hits the road we are really debating about how much power God has.

Click to expand...

Ok here’s the questions

BNR32FAN said:

I provided the verses all you have to do is click on them to see the verse. You don’t have to look up anything.

The people in these verses aren’t elect? We’re Paul and Timothy elect? I’ll post the verses again.

“It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭NASB


“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:4‬ ‭NASB


“"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-10‬ ‭NASB

Now how can these be possible if a person cannot lose their salvation? Will you say Paul and Timothy were not elected to salvation? Will you say that Jesus’ 11 faithful apostles were not elected to salvation? Will you say that those who have been joined to Christ by The Father who bestowed grace upon them were not given the opportunity for salvation?

Click to expand...

Here’s post 210

RickReads said:

I`ve already went through all this mumbo jumbo, you just don`t have the ability to comprehend the scriptures. My comments in ()

And you still won’t give any explanation on how election is the result of both God and the individual choosing because you know you’ve been caught in a contradiction.

(There is no contradiction. It`s in your Bible and I have expounded on it in a variety of my post. Salvation
by the election is made possible because God is Omniscient. He knows outcomes in advance. You do not know your own outcome, therefore you are able to make a choice.)

This has nothing to do with not being able to understand the question it’s a simple matter of not being able to back it up. 2 Timothy 2:12, John 15:6, Galatians 5:4 should all be impossible according to your theology if no one can lose their salvation.

( I`m not looking up these verses again but I already told you, people in these types of examples are not elect. Everything you are claiming I didn`t answer to are things I already addressed.)

Click to expand...

Post 210 doesn’t answer these questions. The only explanation you gave was that these people were not elected by God to which I replied was Paul and Timothy elected by God and you didn’t reply to that one. So no you didn’t actually explain anything you threw out a minimalist vague drive by post that didn’t fit the situation then bounced out of the discussion with this I’m not explaining it again garbage. Obviously Paul, Timothy and Jesus’ 11 faithful apostles were elected by God.

Jesus is YHWH said:

Where we disagree is that a one time sin causes a person to lose salvation.

Click to expand...

Yes because that is what the Bible teaches. Adam had caused the fall of all mankind by just one sin. Ananias and Sapphira were condemned for lying to the Spirit by their one sin.

Numbers 35:16-18 says it only takes one act of murder to be a murderer; And Leviticus 20:10 says it only takes one act of adultery to be an adulterer.

Jesus Himself regarded just looking at a woman once as an act of adultery (Matthew 5:28).

John says, "No murderer has eternal life abiding in them." (1 John 3:15).

Plus, how many sins do you have to keep doing or how many times do you have to sin repeatedly before you realize it is practing sin and or habitual sin? What is the gauge or marker?

You said:

Your belief makes Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David and Peter lose their salvation for their various types of sin such as lying, fornication, murder, hypocrisy etc....

Click to expand...

Yes, but they lost their salvation temporarily via by sin, and then they later repented and regained their salvation back.

You said:

hope this helps !!!

Click to expand...

No, what you said doesn't help. You are speaking against what the Bible is saying on this topic.