The nonsense of "faith produces works"
- Thread starter BibleBeliever1611
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Of course you receive it by believing it. And I believe that. But I don't think it makes sense to believe in Jesus if you don't even say anything to him. Take a look at this video to see what I mean:
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timothyu
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As Jesus said and is even modelled in His prayer... The Kingdom is not only a world to come to replace the evil oppressive one man has built in our own image, but it is also the Kingdom, being the governance of the Father, and a way of life taught by Jesus that puts others before self desires.
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While it is true we are saved by grace, through faith, it is equally true
that those who are saved (regenerated) PRODUCE good works as
a RESULT of their salvation. This is called "sanctification".
Mat 13:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Mat 13:9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
.
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(1) Jesus spoke of a the "Kingdom" of the Jews [Mat 22:2]
(2) and he spoke of a "Kingdom" of the Christians [Mat 13]
(3) He even spoke of this "Kingdom" being TAKEN from the JEWS
and GIVEN to the Christians:
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God
SHALL BE TAKEN FROM YOU AND GIVEN TO A NATION
bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
(4) And Jesus spoke of the Great Tribulation "Kingdom" [Mat 25:1]
(5) And He spoke of the Eternal "Kingdom" [Mat 8:11... and many
other verses]
You cannot offer an "informed opinion" when you do not
incorporate EACH of these "Kingdoms" into your "gospel".
Jim
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Then what about people who don't want to produce any works? You're saying that they can't get saved then.
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timothyu
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You break it down all you wish but as Jesus said...
Matthew 24: 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matthew 4: 23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom...
Matthew 9: 35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom
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(1) Jesus spoke of an EARTHLY "Kingdom" of the Jews [Mat 22:2]
(2) Jesus spoke of an EARTHLY "Kingdom" of the Christians [Mat 13]
In fact Jesus spoke of the TRANSFER of this "Kingdom" from the
Jews to the Christians (Jew and Gentile) in Mat 21:43
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be TAKEN from you, and GIVEN to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
.
Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
3) Jesus also spoke of a Great Tribulation "Kingdom" [Mat 25:1]
4) And He spoke of an ETERNAL "Kingdom" [Mat 8:11 and many
other verses]
BTW.... all the "Kingdoms" BEFORE the ETERNAL "Kingdom"
were both (a) temporal Kingdom and (b) included BOTH saved
and unsaved people.... obviously the last Kingdom is eternal
and ONLY contains the saved people from EACH of the previous
Kingdoms.
If your gospel does not include these Kingdoms then it does not
preach the "whole counsel of God"
Jim
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No... you are not reading what the Bible (and I) said.
The people are regenerated BEFORE then repent and produce
good "fruit".
No SAVED PERSON "does not want to produce any good works)
that is impossible because that is the NATURE of saved people...
and the Bible PROMISES they produce thirty-fold or sixty-fold
or one hundred-fold.
Jim
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timothyu
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The Kingdom/governance of God replaces the governance man holds over other man built upon self serving ideals and seeking gain at the expense of others. That is why the servants, slaves and women were Jesus' first and biggest fans. There was hope from the oppression of man. Al of mankind in a position of power including from personal to religions and churches, all stand to lose.
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Really... that is your "go to" response when you don't understand
what the Bible teaches? It is JESUS that names these different
"Kingdom" and it is JESUS that says the "Kingdom" will be
TAKEN from the Jews and given to the Christians [Mat 21:43]
Do you think that IGNORING Mat 21:43 somehow NEGATES
the Words of Christ?
Tell me...
Was Jesus preaching the Gospel of the Christian "Kingdom"
of the Gospel of the Jewish "Kingdom"... I hope you do realize
they were DIFFERENT "Kingdoms"... and DIFFERENT Gospels.
And what about Mat 25:1...
Was Jesus talking about the Jewish Kingdom or the Christian
Kingdom or the Great Tribulation Kingdom?
(1) You cannot hope to understand the meaning of a passage
or the Gospel... when you cannot discern the CONTEXT of that
passage (you have three (3) "Kingdoms" to deal with)
(2) You should NEVER make the mistake of thinking Biblical Truth
is LIMITED to what you understand... I assure you it is not.
Jim
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I don't "automatically assume anything.
(1) Tell me WHAT people received the "Kingdom of God"
after it was TAKEN from the Jews? [Mat 21:43]
Of course it was the Christian "Kingdom"... consisting of BOTH
Jews and Gentiles... preaching the Christian Gospel and NOT
the Jewish Gospel.
(2) The Christian Kingdom is A nation.
There is ONE "Body of Christ"
But I wonder.... why do you NOT want to accept what
JESUS said in Mat 21:43 and Mat 25:1?
Could it be that the Words of Christ contradict your gospel
and you are trying to protect your gospel rather than submit
to the Words of Christ.
Let me say it a different way....
WHO do you think the "Kingdom" was GIVEN to after
it was TAKEN from the Jews? [Mat 21:43]
Jim
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That is a separate issue. And I agree God governs.
So your statement is a strawman.
The ISSUE is simple:
How many "Kingdoms" did Jesus preach about?
Pre-Flood Kingdom
Jewish Kingdom
Christian Kingdom
Great Tribulation Kingdom
Eternal Kingdom.
Deal with SCRIPTURE instead of defending your "gospel"
Jim
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Why do you want to PLAY with the Words of Christ?
Again, the ISSUE is not that God rules each "Kingdom" Jesus names.
So you can stop building that strawman argument.
The ISSUE is did JESUS identify the Jewish "Kingdom" as DIFFERENT
from the Christian "Kingdom" (you know they have different Gospels)
The ISSUE is did JESUS identify the Great Tribulation "Kingdom"
as DIFFERENT from the Christian "Kingdom" (again, different Gospels)
The ISSUE is did JESUS identify the ETERNAL "Kingdom"
as DIFFERENT than the Jewish/Christian/Great Tribulation "Kingdoms"?
Try to focus on the ISSUE instead of building strawment
to DEFLECT from the issue.
BTW... you still have not explained Mat 21:43
How can you argue WITHOUT addressing that verse?
Of course, you cannot offer an "informed opinion" when
you intentionally ignore that verse... and others.
Jim
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