LOL... landing on an asteriod.....

JacksBratt said:

When I first heard of this whole thing.. The interviewee.... was stating that this was why it was so so so important that they get the sample from this asteroid.. "Because it is some of the oldest material in the universe and will help them figure out how it all started..."

Can't remember where I heard it.. probably talk radio interview.... don't know the guy's name.. some NASA employee or whatever that is Canadian but doing work in Canada for NASA.. or a company that is contracted by NASA....

Anyway... that's where I heard the claim..

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Ah. Asteroid rocks are understood in general solar system formation theory to have all formed about the same time as the planets did, about 4.5bn years ago.

But, the heavier than hydrogen level dust from which the asteroid rocks (and planets) formed will itself be made in previous generations of large short-lived stars. By stellar fusion and supernovae.

So, those atoms are close to the age of the Milky Way galaxy itself, which is getting up there closer to the age of the universe. But...that only makes the atoms of typical age, not older. They'd be just typically old atoms, from the early large stars, I'd expect. Not really older than other typical heavy atoms, unless there is some exceptional reason to think they are unusual instead of typical.

Shemjaza said:

Weight is the action of the force of gravity between the Earth and other objects.

It can be detected between other masses in experiments like Cavendish experiment.

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I actually did the Cavendish experiment some 60 years ago. Since the forces involved are so small we quickly found that traffic on a nearby street threw it off. We had to relocate it to an abandoned farmhouse far from any disturbance.

Shemjaza said:

Weight is the action of the force of gravity between the Earth and other objects.

It can be detected between other masses in experiments like Cavendish experiment.

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Now you know how a christian feels when speaking to an atheist about God. Just as you see the Bible just as a book, i see this experiment as a nice parlor trick, nothing more.

d taylor said:

Now you know how a christian feels when speaking to an atheist about God. Just as you see the Bible just as a book, i see this experiment as a nice parlor trick, nothing more.

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So you are familiar enough with the Cavendish Experiment that you can dismiss it so flippantly? Although I am a scientist, I am also a Christian who has been a Bible scholar for the past 40 years.

d taylor said:

So that is all that gravity is is weight. It is not a force as in a force that pulls or pushes.

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An object in motion stays in motion unless acted on by an equal or opposite force.

You throw a ball in the air. Your arm creates the force that sends it flying.

But the ball doesn't just keep flying up - it slows, and then reverses direction, falling back to the earth.

The only reason it would do that is because a force is acting on it.

We call that force 'gravity'.

JackRT said:

So you are familiar enough with the Cavendish Experiment that you can dismiss it so flippantly? Although I am a scientist, I am also a Christian who has been a Bible scholar for the past 40 years.

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I am familiar enough with what i am seeing (Gods creation) to know that science is not truthful with their descriptions of Gods creation.

So i really need to seek no other information from science. About explanations/demonstrations of ideas they have created that continue to serve, to prop up their false creation.

I am a gravity atheist.
A flat stationary earth does not need a force to hold a person to the earth, the sun, moon, stars, clouds even rain as it stays in a cloud until God releases it to fall to earth. So were is the force of gravity in its drawing objects to earth with these mentioned.
How are 100lb hailstones staying up in the heavens waiting to be used.

Astonishing!

d taylor said:

I am a gravity atheist.
A flat stationary earth does not need a force to hold a person to the earth, the sun, moon, stars, clouds even rain as it stays in a cloud until God releases it to fall to earth. So were is the force of gravity in its drawing objects to earth with these mentioned.
How are 100lb hailstones staying up in the heavens waiting to be used.

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d taylor said:

I am a gravity atheist.
A flat stationary earth does not need a force to hold a person to the earth, the sun, moon, stars, clouds even rain as it stays in a cloud until God releases it to fall to earth. So were is the force of gravity in its drawing objects to earth with these mentioned.
How are 100lb hailstones staying up in the heavens waiting to be used.

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Goodness gracious, where do I even start?

So when you throw a ball up and it comes down again, why do you think that happen? When you're holding a stapler, and you let go, why does it fall straight to the earth? Why not to the sides? Why not straight up? Why not just stay in place? It accelerates - what causes that acceleration? Are you saying it's just god, moving stuff all the time?

JacksBratt said:

Yes, I'm sure they did not say "solar system"

Basic physics is not the issue... Advanced pseudo physics is...
So is the drivel that they try to tell us... that most people accept just because... NASA....

“Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ”

― Nikola Tesla

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I'm sorry to say, but the theory of gravity is not advanced physics, pseudo or otherwise.

It was established and demonstrated long before Nikola Tesla was even born.

d taylor said:

Now you know how a christian feels when speaking to an atheist about God. Just as you see the Bible just as a book, i see this experiment as a nice parlor trick, nothing more.

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Can you explain why it works and is consistent with the evidence for the theory of gravity?

d taylor said:

I am a gravity atheist.
A flat stationary earth does not need a force to hold a person to the earth, the sun, moon, stars, clouds even rain as it stays in a cloud until God releases it to fall to earth. So were is the force of gravity in its drawing objects to earth with these mentioned.
How are 100lb hailstones staying up in the heavens waiting to be used.

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They aren't. When a hailstone is formed by the interaction of different temperatures of air currents and water vapor, they fall right away.

JacksBratt said:

Gravity is hardly "advanced" physics.. It's easily predicted and measured.. until, of course, you go outside of the earth... then.. it can change like the weather.

On the earth... it's pretty common and basic physics that we rely on.

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No I'm talking about the Theory of Gravity... the attraction of items with mass to other items with mass.

This theory has been around for centuries and was experimentally demonstrated in the 18th century.

That's the explanation for interaction between objects sharing an orbit, like pieces of an asteroid.

Can you give an example where you think it has been inconsistent "like the weather"? Because in this thread people seem to have been able to answer your questions.

JacksBratt said:

Other than the fact that they cannot understand it's cause or source or why it exists...

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True. There are hypotheses, but it's a mystery. Not knowing the origin of something doesn't mean we haven'e been able to measure it and predict its behavior.

JacksBratt said:

Like d taylor said.. on the FE it's not needed as a mystical force.. down is just down... You don't need some mystery to hold things on a globe...

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The opposite is true.

With gravity and a globe we have an explanation for why and how things should fall.

With the FE idea, and "down is just down", you have a literally inexplicable behavior. No explanation, it's exactly a mystical force.

JacksBratt said:

It can hold Pluto in orbit from extreme distance.. but two billiard balls or any other objects can sit with less than a mm between them... and never be drawn together by this finicky force of gravity.

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The two billiard balls are held to the table by the earth's gravity. This creates a friction at the point of contact that must be overcome for the balls to move. The force of gravity between the balls themselves is insufficient to overcome the friction.

Now, it can hold debris to the side of a rock barely half a kilometer in diameter.. while men on the moon can jump very high due to the fact that they weigh 1/6 as much as they do on earth.... and... a little explosion can launch the lunar module out of the gravitational pull of the moon.. while on earth.. they needed a Saturn 5 monster to escape gravity of merely 6 times the strength..

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It is not the "side" of the rock it is the "surface" of a roughly spheroidal asteroid. We don't talk about the sides of the earth, we speak of its surface. The lunar module was launched back into lunar orbit by a controlled rocket burn not a little explosion. It did look a bit like an explosion because of all the debris kicked up by the rockets.

JacksBratt said:

Like d taylor said.. on the FE it's not needed as a mystical force.. down is just down... You don't need some mystery to hold things on a globe...

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Let's center on this for a second, because I think Jack addressed the rest quite well.

Why does the Flat Earth not need a reason for things to go downward?

Again, objects move because forces act on them. That's it. If you throw a ball upwards on a flat earth, why does it come back down? Not only that, why does it always come back down at, roughly, the same speed?

JacksBratt said:

If there was no space, no orbit, no spinning and floating... there would be up... there would be down....

Things would not "float" if there was not, then, a force to keep them "up"...

Soon as you make things round and orbiting and floating through space and such.. then you have to explain how we don't fly off of a spinning ball.. and everything else as well.

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You seem to have this really flawed understanding of how force works, and what a force is.

Let's say, for a moment, that the Earth is how you think it is, and that it's a snow globe. Okay.

Even on this snow globe, things don't just...move. They move because a force is acted on them.

If you hold a ball in the air and let go, it moves towards the Earth. It accelerates towards the ground. Why? You say on a flat earth there is just up and down, but why does the ball move down and not up? Why should it move at all if there's no force acting on it? Right now, you're accelerating towards the ground. You'e not moving because there's nowhere for you to go, the ground is stopping you from going further down, but if a hole suddenly opened beneath you, you would accelerate again, until you hit whatever ground was beneath you.

Things don't just accelerate, they accelerate because a force is acting on them. If you say gravity isn't real, what is this force? What is making every object on this planet accelerate, and not only that, accelerate in the same direction?

I think that JacksBratt's problem is that he has self limited himself to what might be called "medieval magical thinking". He is convinced that God has created and orders the universe not realizing that God's ordering is based on cause and effect according to (scientific) laws that seem to be both universal and eternal. Scientists are simply trying to figure out these laws.

Maybe that will be what fuels the fire in the lake, all the burning of the science books, which went against Gods creation