LDS It seems to me if the gold plates ever existed...

Ironhold

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The Mormons forgot they lived in the USA with “Freedom of the press” written into the Constitution. You are not supposed to trespass, nor destroy other people’s property. Smith’s crimes became so great he was wanted for treason in two states. There is freedom of religion in the Constitution, contingent on obeying U.S. laws.

Again...

The City Council believed, rightly or wrongly, that a specific set of laws within the state of Illinois gave them a legal right that is still being debated over as to whether or not they actually had it.

There have been many, many instances where one set of laws was in active conflict with another set, and all too often it takes some sort of high court to sort them all out. That's how these things can work.
 
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dzheremi

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Again...

The City Council believed, rightly or wrongly, that a specific set of laws within the state of Illinois gave them a legal right that is still being debated over as to whether or not they actually had it.

:rolleyes:

 
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dqhall

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Again...

The City Council believed, rightly or wrongly, that a specific set of laws within the state of Illinois gave them a legal right that is still being debated over as to whether or not they actually had it.

There have been many, many instances where one set of laws was in active conflict with another set, and all too often it takes some sort of high court to sort them all out. That's how these things can work.
There is no right granted in either Federal or State law for rioters to destroy the newspaper office of a man opposed to Joseph Smith and his outlaws.
 
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BigDaddy4

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Bringing this one up separately because we've had an entire thread devoted to it.

The Nauvoo City Council believed that, under Illinois Common Law, they had the right to silence "nuisance" presses. They ordered Joseph Smith, who was the mayor, to silence the Expositor. Smith passed the buck onto the city bailiff, who wound up destroying the press.

It's been the subject of some debate as to whether or not the Nauvoo City Council had the legal right to silence the press, whether or not Joseph understood what they'd called on him to do, and whether or not the bailiff understood that he was only supposed to seize the press rather than destroy it.
There is no debate. They did not have the right to carry out an illegal order. Case closed.
 
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Ran77

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That, however, is not the case.

Why? Because you say so? I am highly suspicious of any argument that allows behavior from one side of an issue, but not the other. That is commonly known as hypocrisy. If merely changing the parties involved makes the statement false, then perhaps the premise is actually false just plain false.


In short, defenders of the authenticity of the BOM will have to do more than that in order to continue to alibi for the fact that the only people supporting JS's story are people who have a vested interest in having the world believe it.

Just as our critics have a vested interested in having the world not believe it. I reject the whole double standard offering.

James 1: 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

James 4: 8 Draw nigh to God, and He will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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You should NOT accuse Abraham of wrongdoing when God said this:

(Old Testament | Genesis 26:4 - 5)

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

God also set forth laws concerning plural marriage:

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 21:15 - 21)

15 ¶ If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:
16 Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn:
17 But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his.
18 ¶ If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Many men have had more than one wife and many women have had more than one husband. But that is NOT socially unacceptable. Polygamy may return:

(Old Testament | Isaiah 4:1)

1 AND in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

We know Abraham sins, that is what I found funny.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Let me stop you right there.

Mormon/LDS Answers: Questions about LDS Prophets and the Mormons

Critics of the church claim that Joseph was convicted of fraud in 1826, but repeated examinations of the surviving evidence have determined that the document used as evidence of his conviction was nothing more than the bill for the pre-trial hearing and that there is reason to believe elements of the historical account of the trial have been compromised.

Furthermore, anti-Mormon author Wesley Walters *stole* material from an archive building in order to publish them, something that further compromised the historical record.

The claim of Joseph's conviction is therefore a non-starter to anyone who knows what's going on.
http://www.utlm.org/other/changingworld.pdf
 
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Daniel Marsh

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II Samuel 11:26 When Bathsheba heard that her husband was dead, she mourned for him. 27 Then after the time for mourning was over, David sent someone to bring her to the palace. She became David’s wife, and they had a son.

The Lord’s Message for David
The Lord was angry at what David had done,

12 1 and he sent Nathan the prophet to tell this story to David:

A rich man and a poor man lived in the same town. 2 The rich man owned a lot of sheep and cattle, 3 but the poor man had only one little lamb that he had bought and raised. The lamb became a pet for him and his children. He even let it eat from his plate and drink from his cup and sleep on his lap. The lamb was like one of his own children.

4 One day someone came to visit the rich man, but the rich man didn’t want to kill any of his own sheep or cattle and serve it to the visitor. So he stole the poor man’s little lamb and served it instead.

5 David was furious with the rich man and said to Nathan, “I swear by the living Lord that the man who did this deserves to die! 6 And because he didn’t have any pity on the poor man, he will have to pay four times what the lamb was worth.”

7 Then Nathan told David:

You are that rich man! Now listen to what the Lord God of Israel says to you: “I chose you to be the king of Israel. I kept you safe from Saul 8 and even gave you his house and his wives. I let you rule Israel and Judah, and if that had not been enough, I would have given you much more. 9 Why did you disobey me and do such a horrible thing? You murdered Uriah the Hittite by having the Ammonites kill him, so you could take his wife.

10 “Because you wouldn’t obey me and took Uriah’s wife for yourself, your family will never live in peace. 11 Someone from your own family will cause you a lot of trouble, and I will take your wives and give them to another man before your very eyes. He will go to bed with them while everyone looks on. 12 What you did was in secret, but I will do this in the open for everyone in Israel to see.”

13-14 David said, “I have disobeyed the Lord.”

“Yes, you have!” Nathan answered. “You showed you didn’t care what the Lord wanted.[a] He has forgiven you, and you won’t die. But your newborn son will.” 15 Then Nathan went back home.

David’s Young Son Dies
The Lord made David’s young son very sick.

16 So David went without eating to show his sorrow, and he begged God to make the boy well. David would not sleep on his bed, but spent each night lying on the floor. 17 His officials stood beside him and tried to talk him into getting up. But he would not get up or eat with them.

18 After the child had been sick for seven days, he died, but the officials were afraid to tell David. They said to each other, “Even when the boy was alive, David wouldn’t listen to us. How can we tell him his son is dead? He might do something terrible!”

19 David noticed his servants whispering, and he knew the boy was dead. “Did my son die?” he asked his servants.

“Yes, he did,” they answered.

20 David got up off the floor; he took a bath, combed his hair, and dressed. He went into the Lord’s tent and worshiped, then he went back home. David asked for something to eat, and when his servants brought him some food, he ate it.

21 His officials said, “What are you doing? You went without eating and cried for your son while he was alive! But now that he’s dead, you’re up and eating.”

22 David answered:

While he was still alive, I went without food and cried because there was still hope. I said to myself, “Who knows? Maybe the Lord will have pity on me and let the child live.” 23 But now that he’s dead, why should I go without eating? I can’t bring him back! Someday I will join him in death, but he can’t return to me.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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And this link is what now? Why should I even think about clicking on it?

I was looking for the primary source for the court trail --- maybe you can find it.

I had to get back to work, thus I went with a likely source.

Sorry about that.
daniel
 
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He is the way

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II Samuel 11:26 When Bathsheba heard that her husband was dead, she mourned for him. 27 Then after the time for mourning was over, David sent someone to bring her to the palace. She became David’s wife, and they had a son.

The Lord’s Message for David
The Lord was angry at what David had done,

12 1 and he sent Nathan the prophet to tell this story to David:

A rich man and a poor man lived in the same town. 2 The rich man owned a lot of sheep and cattle, 3 but the poor man had only one little lamb that he had bought and raised. The lamb became a pet for him and his children. He even let it eat from his plate and drink from his cup and sleep on his lap. The lamb was like one of his own children.

4 One day someone came to visit the rich man, but the rich man didn’t want to kill any of his own sheep or cattle and serve it to the visitor. So he stole the poor man’s little lamb and served it instead.

5 David was furious with the rich man and said to Nathan, “I swear by the living Lord that the man who did this deserves to die! 6 And because he didn’t have any pity on the poor man, he will have to pay four times what the lamb was worth.”

7 Then Nathan told David:

You are that rich man! Now listen to what the Lord God of Israel says to you: “I chose you to be the king of Israel. I kept you safe from Saul 8 and even gave you his house and his wives. I let you rule Israel and Judah, and if that had not been enough, I would have given you much more. 9 Why did you disobey me and do such a horrible thing? You murdered Uriah the Hittite by having the Ammonites kill him, so you could take his wife.

10 “Because you wouldn’t obey me and took Uriah’s wife for yourself, your family will never live in peace. 11 Someone from your own family will cause you a lot of trouble, and I will take your wives and give them to another man before your very eyes. He will go to bed with them while everyone looks on. 12 What you did was in secret, but I will do this in the open for everyone in Israel to see.”

13-14 David said, “I have disobeyed the Lord.”

“Yes, you have!” Nathan answered. “You showed you didn’t care what the Lord wanted.[a] He has forgiven you, and you won’t die. But your newborn son will.” 15 Then Nathan went back home.

David’s Young Son Dies
The Lord made David’s young son very sick.

16 So David went without eating to show his sorrow, and he begged God to make the boy well. David would not sleep on his bed, but spent each night lying on the floor. 17 His officials stood beside him and tried to talk him into getting up. But he would not get up or eat with them.

18 After the child had been sick for seven days, he died, but the officials were afraid to tell David. They said to each other, “Even when the boy was alive, David wouldn’t listen to us. How can we tell him his son is dead? He might do something terrible!”

19 David noticed his servants whispering, and he knew the boy was dead. “Did my son die?” he asked his servants.

“Yes, he did,” they answered.

20 David got up off the floor; he took a bath, combed his hair, and dressed. He went into the Lord’s tent and worshiped, then he went back home. David asked for something to eat, and when his servants brought him some food, he ate it.

21 His officials said, “What are you doing? You went without eating and cried for your son while he was alive! But now that he’s dead, you’re up and eating.”

22 David answered:

While he was still alive, I went without food and cried because there was still hope. I said to myself, “Who knows? Maybe the Lord will have pity on me and let the child live.” 23 But now that he’s dead, why should I go without eating? I can’t bring him back! Someday I will join him in death, but he can’t return to me.
As I said: "We also know that David sinned with Bathsheba. He was not reprimanded before that even though he had many wives."
 
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Daniel Marsh

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As I said: "We also know that David sinned with Bathsheba. He was not reprimanded before that even though he had many wives."


God did reprimand David by the prophet, that is part of the text I posted.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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This is the part of that text:

"12 1 and he sent Nathan the prophet to tell this story to David:

A rich man and a poor man lived in the same town. 2 The rich man owned a lot of sheep and cattle, 3 but the poor man had only one little lamb that he had bought and raised. The lamb became a pet for him and his children. He even let it eat from his plate and drink from his cup and sleep on his lap. The lamb was like one of his own children.

4 One day someone came to visit the rich man, but the rich man didn’t want to kill any of his own sheep or cattle and serve it to the visitor. So he stole the poor man’s little lamb and served it instead.

5 David was furious with the rich man and said to Nathan, “I swear by the living Lord that the man who did this deserves to die! 6 And because he didn’t have any pity on the poor man, he will have to pay four times what the lamb was worth.”

7 Then Nathan told David:

You are that rich man! Now listen to what the Lord God of Israel says to you: “I chose you to be the king of Israel. I kept you safe from Saul 8 and even gave you his house and his wives. I let you rule Israel and Judah, and if that had not been enough, I would have given you much more. 9 Why did you disobey me and do such a horrible thing? You murdered Uriah the Hittite by having the Ammonites kill him, so you could take his wife.

10 “Because you wouldn’t obey me and took Uriah’s wife for yourself, your family will never live in peace. 11 Someone from your own family will cause you a lot of trouble, and I will take your wives and give them to another man before your very eyes. He will go to bed with them while everyone looks on. 12 What you did was in secret, but I will do this in the open for everyone in Israel to see.”

13-14 David said, “I have disobeyed the Lord.”

“Yes, you have!” Nathan answered. “You showed you didn’t care what the Lord wanted.[a] He has forgiven you, and you won’t die. But your newborn son will.” 15 Then Nathan went back home.

David’s Young Son Dies
The Lord made David’s young son very sick.

16 So David went without eating to show his sorrow, and he begged God to make the boy well. David would not sleep on his bed, but spent each night lying on the floor. 17 His officials stood beside him and tried to talk him into getting up. But he would not get up or eat with them.

18 After the child had been sick for seven days, he died, "

David got those wives, who were Political by the way before he sinned with Bathsheba.
 
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He is the way

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God did reprimand David by the prophet, that is part of the text I posted.
God gave the wives to David:

(Old Testament | 2 Samuel 12:7 - 8)

7 ¶ And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

And in all of these things David did not sin. But because he took Bathsheba from Uriah and made sure Uriah was killed, because his cover up did not work, he was condemned. Abraham and Jacob had more than one wife and they were not condemned.
 
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