2300 DAY PROPHECY OF DANIEL

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,620
744
78
Home in Tulsa
✟101,967.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
The 2300 days is tied to the vision in verse 13.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

The 2300 days take place at the time of the end.

Just like the time/times/half time will be at the time of the end in Daniel 12:7-9.

______________________________________________________________

There is the overall vision that Daniel had, beginning in verse 1, which included the ram and goat, and Gabriel explained that part and also the specific vision in verse 13-14 of the 2300 days.

The 2300 days part is time of the end.

The Ram and Goat, and the four breakup kingdoms is of course all history to us now.
If this is true, you should be able to point to the verse where Gabriel switched from the ram and goat vision to something in the future.

UNLESS: you also imagine the Ram and the Goat will be repeated in our future.

the specific vision in verse 13-14 of the 2300 days.


Don't pull those two verses out of their context!

11 Yea, he
[He WHO (if this is future)] magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.

12 And an host was given him
[Him WHO (if this is future)] against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. [Most commentators say these verses are speaking of Antiochus. The Amplified agrees.]

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be
the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? [This all points to Antiochus! In context, it can be none other than he.]

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.


["The vision" Gabriel inteerprets all goes back to the Ram and the Goat, then the four Generals, then in the latter time of THEIR Kingdom.

Unless this entire scenario is repeated, the 2300 days in context must tie back to Antiochus.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: klutedavid
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,782
3,421
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,794.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
If this is true, you should be able to point to the verse where Gabriel switched from the ram and goat vision to something in the future.
Daniel 8:23 is where the time of the end begins.

23 And in the latter time of their [the transgressors's] kingdom [the EU], when the transgressors are come to the full [the ten kings of Daniel 7] , a king of fierce countenance [the little horn], and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up [an idiom prepares to go to war].

The remaining verses are about the little horn person.

["The vision" Gabriel inteerprets all goes back to the Ram and the Goat, then the four Generals, then in the latter time of THEIR Kingdom.
That's where you made the mistake in interpretation. The four generals each had a kingdom, four kingdoms in verse 22. Verse 23 is about one kingdom of the transgressors who align with the little horn in the time of the end.

In Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Those are the ten kings, the ten horns, in Revelation.
 
Upvote 0

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,620
744
78
Home in Tulsa
✟101,967.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Daniel 8:23 is where the time of the end begins.

23 And in the latter time of their [the transgressors's] kingdom [the EU], when the transgressors are come to the full [the ten kings of Daniel 7] , a king of fierce countenance [the little horn], and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up [an idiom prepares to go to war].

The remaining verses are about the little horn person.


That's where you made the mistake in interpretation. The four generals each had a kingdom, four kingdoms in verse 22. Verse 23 is about one kingdom of the transgressors who align with the little horn in the time of the end.

In Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Those are the ten kings, the ten horns, in Revelation.
I disagree. TWO DIFFERENT "little horns, one comes from ten kings, the other from the kingdoms of the 4 kings.

8:1 In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.

2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.

3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
This sets the theme: It is going to be about nations or empires:; the first animal represents Medo-Persia. The next: Greece.

4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
Darius of Persia was powerful. He was pushing (expanding) in every direction except East.

5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. Now we enter another nation or Empire, with a king. The goat will represent Greece. This empire and a NOTABLE king.

6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power. Alexander had anger against Darius, for the Persians had previously attacked Macedonia. This was not just a war, this was backed by a personal vendetta.

7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand. Alexander and his troops put Darius on the run in the Battle of Isis, even though greatly outnumbered.

8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. Alexander had run out of places to conquer. He died, and four Generals took over the kingdom, dividing the Kingdom 4 ways. God was mostly concerned with one of them, The Seleucus empire, because that empire included the Holy Land.

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
Note carefully, out of the Seleucus horn came a "little horn." He was powerful towards the south, Egypt, and east, and the Holy Land. This now sets the theme for the entire rest of the chapter. It was Medo-Persia, then it was Greece (Macedonia) and now it is the Little Horn from the Seleucus branch of the Diadachi. It was Antiochus Epiphanes. This cannot possibly be the same "little horn" of chapter 7, that comes out out of ten horns.

10 And it [Antiochus Epiphanes and his host] waxed great, even to the host of heaven; [He won over some of the Priests of Israel, and murdered others.] and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground [murdered them], and stamped upon them [Treated those he did not murder with disdain: dirt under his feet].

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, [Probably the High Priest, but could have reference to the Redeemer] and by him [Antiochus Epiphanes] the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. [He slew a pig in the temple. He set up an image of Zeus in the Holy of Holies. The daily sacrifices were STOPPED.]

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. [God allowed Antiochus to attack Israel with an army due to the sins of the people: "transgressions." For some time Antiochus prospered. Notice, several verses now about Antiochus from The Seleucus general.]

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? [A question is asked: how long concerning the daily sacrifice and the desolation done by Antiochus and his host. PAY ATTENTION because the 2300 days is the answer to THIS question. It is not something in our future, it is about Antiochus. How long will the temple be trampled under foot by the Host army of Antiochus?]

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. [So here is the answer: 2300 days the temple would be trampled by the Host of Antiochus. This could not be any clearer: it is about THEN, not our future. THIS is the vision that Gabriel will interpret.]

15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man. [Daniel still does not understand. he is looking for help to understand. ]

16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision. [A saint asked Gabriel to help Daniel understand. understand what? Of course, what we just covered about Antiochus. So Gabriel is not going to bring up something new, he is going to help Daniel understand HOW LONG the sacrifices will be halted and the temple trodden: NOT concerning our future, but about Antiochus. About the vision just discussed.]

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision. [IN CONTEXT, WHAT "end?" He will tell us. It is NOT ABOUT the "end" in our future. We must leave things in their context. ]

18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.

19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be. [WHAT "indignation?" WHAT "end?" Of course, what we just covered, how Antiochus was prospering against God's people. Remember, Gabriel is only helping Daniel understand what was previously covered: about Antiochus. The "end" is explained as the "end" of the "indignation." And what is that? It is how Antiochus was given power over the Holy People due to their sins. For those that disagree, this is how one keeps verse IN their context.]

[Does Gabriel start here talking about something in our future, as some - in error - think? NO! He stays in context with the Ram and the Goat: where this vision began.]
20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. [PAY ATTENTION: This is proof. WHAT "indignation? WHAT "end?" It is about the ram and the goat and the four horns and then the little horn. Gabriel has NOT changed subjects.]

21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. [Note carefully, Gabriel is going over the SAME VISION, explaining it. It is not something new.]

22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power. [Four Generals; four Kingdoms. SAME vision; not someting new.]

23 And in the latter time of their [the four general's] kingdom, [The Diadochi: not about our future - when the transgressors are come to the full (when Israel's sins reach a certain level), a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up: Antiochus Epiphanes] Douggg, note carefully, here Gabriel has lumped the four into ONE as history did, calling all for the "Diadochi." Note the word "Their:" It is a pronoun and there must be an antecedent: we look back and find "Four" as in "FOUR STOOD UP FOR IT." Your theory that Gabriel switched to the future is BOGUS. Why would ANYONE imagine Gabriel switched subjects and nouns? He didn't.

24 And his [Antiochus Epiphanes] power shall be mighty, but not by his own power [He had demonic help] : and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. [Antiochus Epiphanes was given power over the Jews due to their transgressions. Still about Antiochus Epiphanes.]

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. [When he, Antiochus Epiphanes, stopped the daily sacrifices started by God Himself, he was then in God's face: the PRINCE of princes - the preincarnate Jesus Christ. Note, Gabriel is still talking about Antiochus Epiphanes. God brought Antiochus to his end. Note also this does not fit the Beast of Revelation. He will come to His end only when Jesus Christ apprehends him. Antiochus died along: he stunk so bad everyone left him.]

26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days. [2300 days is many days.]

27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

As any reader can see, Gabriel interprets Daniel's vision - He does not come up with something new about our future. If we just leave everything IN CONTEXT it is about the end of the four general's kingdoms,, the Diadochi; then in particular, the Seleucus Kingdom - but Gabriel lumped the four together as one [Greek] kingdom, as has people, calling it the Diadochi..

That's where you made the mistake in interpretation. The four generals each had a kingdom, four kingdoms in verse 22. Verse 23 is about one kingdom of the transgressors who align with the little horn in the time of the end. The mistake was you pulling verses from their context.

Readers, always remember, people can and will pull verses out of context to make them fit some theory; But any verses pulled from their context to fit a theory will cause that theory to be error. The truth is, there is nothing in chapter 8 about our future, except Antiochus Epiphanes being a TYPE of the Beast to come. Notice Daniel's last words: "none understood it." It is almost the same today; FEW understand it.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: klutedavid
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,782
3,421
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,794.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I disagree. TWO DIFFERENT "little horns, one comes from ten kings, the other from the kingdoms of the 4 kings.

8:1 In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.

2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.

3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
This sets the theme: It is going to be about nations or empires:; the first animal represents Medo-Persia. The next: Greece.

4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
Darius of Persia was powerful. He was pushing (expanding) in every direction except East.

5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. Now we enter another nation or Empire, with a king. The goat will represent Greece. This empire and a NOTABLE king.

6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power. Alexander had anger against Darius, for the Persians had previously attacked Macedonia. This was not just a war, this was backed by a personal vendetta.

7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand. Alexander and his troops put Darius on the run in the Battle of Isis, even though greatly outnumbered.

8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. Alexander had run out of places to conquer. He died, and four Generals took over the kingdom, dividing the Kingdom 4 ways. God was mostly concerned with one of them, The Seleucus empire, because that empire included the Holy Land.

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
Note carefully, out of the Seleucus horn came a "little horn." He was powerful towards the south, Egypt, and east, and the Holy Land. This now sets the theme for the entire rest of the chapter. It was Medo-Persia, then it was Greece (Macedonia) and now it is the Little Horn from the Seleucus branch of the Diadachi. It was Antiochus Epiphanes. This cannot possibly be the same "little horn" of chapter 7, that comes out out of ten horns.

10 And it [Antiochus Epiphanes and his host] waxed great, even to the host of heaven; [He won over some of the Priests of Israel, and murdered others.] and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground [murdered them], and stamped upon them [Treated those he did not murder with disdain: dirt under his feet].

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, [Probably the High Priest, but could have reference to the Redeemer] and by him [Antiochus Epiphanes] the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. [He slew a pig in the temple. He set up an image of Zeus in the Holy of Holies. The daily sacrifices were STOPPED.]

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. [God allowed Antiochus to attack Israel with an army due to the sins of the people: "transgressions." For some time Antiochus prospered. Notice, several verses now about Antiochus from The Seleucus general.]

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? [A question is asked: how long concerning the daily sacrifice and the desolation done by Antiochus and his host. PAY ATTENTION because the 2300 days is the answer to THIS question. It is not something in our future, it is about Antiochus. How long will the temple be trampled under foot by the Host army of Antiochus?]

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. [So here is the answer: 2300 days the temple would be trampled by the Host of Antiochus. This could not be any clearer: it is about THEN, not our future. THIS is the vision that Gabriel will interpret.]

15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man. [Daniel still does not understand. he is looking for help to understand. ]

16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision. [A saint asked Gabriel to help Daniel understand. understand what? Of course, what we just covered about Antiochus. So Gabriel is not going to bring up something new, he is going to help Daniel understand HOW LONG the sacrifices will be halted and the temple trodden: NOT concerning our future, but about Antiochus. About the vision just discussed.]

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision. [IN CONTEXT, WHAT "end?" He will tell us. It is NOT ABOUT the "end" in our future. We must leave things in their context. ]

18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.

19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be. [WHAT "indignation?" WHAT "end?" Of course, what we just covered, how Antiochus was prospering against God's people. Remember, Gabriel is only helping Daniel understand what was previously covered: about Antiochus. The "end" is explained as the "end" of the "indignation." And what is that? It is how Antiochus was given power over the Holy People due to their sins. For those that disagree, this is how one keeps verse IN their context.]

[Does Gabriel start here talking about something in our future, as some - in error - think? NO! He stays in context with the Ram and the Goat: where this vision began.]
20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. [PAY ATTENTION: This is proof. WHAT "indignation? WHAT "end?" It is about the ram and the goat and the four horns and then the little horn. Gabriel has NOT changed subjects.]

21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. [Note carefully, Gabriel is going over the SAME VISION, explaining it. It is not something new.]

22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power. [Four Generals; four Kingdoms. SAME vision; not someting new.]

23 And in the latter time of their [the four general's] kingdom, [The Diadochi: not about our future - when the transgressors are come to the full (when Israel's sins reach a certain level), a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up: Antiochus Epiphanes] Douggg, note carefully, here Gabriel has lumped the four into ONE as history did, calling all for the "Diadochi." Note the word "Their:" It is a pronoun and there must be an antecedent: we look back and find "Four" as in "FOUR STOOD UP FOR IT." Your theory that Gabriel switched to the future is BOGUS. Why would ANYONE imagine Gabriel switched subjects and nouns? He didn't.

24 And his [Antiochus Epiphanes] power shall be mighty, but not by his own power [He had demonic help] : and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. [Antiochus Epiphanes was given power over the Jews due to their transgressions. Still about Antiochus Epiphanes.]

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. [When he, Antiochus Epiphanes, stopped the daily sacrifices started by God Himself, he was then in God's face: the PRINCE of princes - the preincarnate Jesus Christ. Note, Gabriel is still talking about Antiochus Epiphanes. God brought Antiochus to his end. Note also this does not fit the Beast of Revelation. He will come to His end only when Jesus Christ apprehends him. Antiochus died along: he stunk so bad everyone left him.]

26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days. [2300 days is many days.]

27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

As any reader can see, Gabriel interprets Daniel's vision - He does not come up with something new about our future. If we just leave everything IN CONTEXT it is about the end of the four general's kingdoms,, the Diadochi; then in particular, the Seleucus Kingdom - but Gabriel lumped the four together as one [Greek] kingdom, as has people, calling it the Diadochi..

That's where you made the mistake in interpretation. The four generals each had a kingdom, four kingdoms in verse 22. Verse 23 is about one kingdom of the transgressors who align with the little horn in the time of the end. The mistake was you pulling verses from their context.

Readers, always remember, people can and will pull verses out of context to make them fit some theory; But any verses pulled from their context to fit a theory will cause that theory to be error. The truth is, there is nothing in chapter 8 about our future, except Antiochus Epiphanes being a TYPE of the Beast to come. Notice Daniel's last words: "none understood it." It is almost the same today; FEW understand it.
lamad, you are trying to make the time of the end verse to mean -

when the 2300 days are over the 2300 days are over.

That is not what Gabriel indicated. Gabriel indicated when the 2300 day vision of the transgression of desolation will take place at the time of the end. End times, last days, latter days, latter years.

That's where you made the mistake in interpretation. The four generals each had a kingdom, four kingdoms in verse 22. Verse 23 is about one kingdom of the transgressors who align with the little horn in the time of the end.
The mistake was you pulling verses from their context.

lamad, I did not pull anything out of context. Verse 22 is historic. Verse 23 is time of the end, trangressors - transgression of desolation, the 2300 days.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Marilyn C
Upvote 0

Oseas

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2017
1,963
179
87
Joinville
✟114,666.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Writing the same things over and over won't help! If you are wrong, then you are wrong. No amount of pasting will change that.

Did you notice some the first words Gabriel wrote - words you think were future, but in reality were about the past:

"I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be. The ram which thou sawest ...And the rough goat..."

Will history repeat itself? Will there be ANOTHER Ram and Goat? What do you really believe? Is Gabriel talking about the Ram and the Goat in the first part of chapter 8? Or are you saying there will be ANOTHER Ram and Goat in our future: a Goat with a big horn that breaks and the kingdom is divided into four divisions?

This is an EITHER / OR proposition: no 3rd choice:

Either the 2300 days was for Antiochus, or Daniel was telling us there will be ANOTHER Ram and ANother Goat.

So which is it?
I am not fighting against the Holy Spirit, I am fighting against the spirit of lie as my LORD Jesus did in John 8:v.43-45.

Revelation 16:v.13-16 is also aplied in your case as a follower.

Here goes what the Word of God says - the Word is God - it is He who refutes you by His own words, not me. I only work with the Word of God, He that is above is above of all. He that is of the earth, is earthly, and speaks of the earth.

~~~~~~~~~~~~THE VISION ~~~~~~~~~~~

verse 13 - Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the VISION to be fulfilled—the VISION concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?”

verse 14 - He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”

~~~~~~Here the true interpretation~~~~~~~
The Interpretation of the Vision by Gabriel


(Your interpretation is good for nothing, it is tares, it is chaff, your disguised spirit trys to replace the true interpretation of Gabriel by a devilish interpretation you have learned from demons).

15 While I, Daniel, was watching the vision and trying to understand it, there before me stood one who looked like a man. 16 And I heard a man’s voice from the Ulai calling, “Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the VISION.” (This is sufficy)

17 As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. “Son of man,” he said to me, “understand that the VISION concerns the time of the END."

18 While he was speaking to me, I was in a deep sleep, with my face to the ground. Then he touched me and raised me to my feet.

19 He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the VISION concerns the appointed time of the END.

The true Christians believe in the interpretation was given by Gabriel, they will never believe in lies like that you have posted.

Through your disguised spirit you try to deny Scriptures, and try to TAKE OUT THE TRUTH from the heart of my brothers who fight by the Truth. You are sowing tares, chaff, and deceiving the brothers in Christ here with your deceiver messages. Your sin is serious before the Most High God.
 
Upvote 0

Marilyn C

Pre-tribulation.
Site Supporter
Dec 26, 2013
4,818
598
Victoria
✟598,287.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No, I am not stuck in the past. It is the 2300 days that is stuck in the past, as you wrote.

`Understand, son of man, that the vision refers to the time of the end.` (Dan. 8: 17)

WHAT end? Don't try and form doctrine by pulling verses out of their context! The end it question is the end of the "indignation" caused by Antiochus.

God`s word says - time of the end, latter time of the indignation, appointed time, & so on right through to Dan. 11 & 12. So it is all about the future for Israel.
 
Upvote 0

Marilyn C

Pre-tribulation.
Site Supporter
Dec 26, 2013
4,818
598
Victoria
✟598,287.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If this is true, you should be able to point to the verse where Gabriel switched from the ram and goat vision to something in the future.

UNLESS: you also imagine the Ram and the Goat will be repeated in our future.

the specific vision in verse 13-14 of the 2300 days.


Don't pull those two verses out of their context!

11 Yea, he
[He WHO (if this is future)] magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.

12 And an host was given him
[Him WHO (if this is future)] against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. [Most commentators say these verses are speaking of Antiochus. The Amplified agrees.]

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be
the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? [This all points to Antiochus! In context, it can be none other than he.]

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.


["The vision" Gabriel inteerprets all goes back to the Ram and the Goat, then the four Generals, then in the latter time of THEIR Kingdom.

Unless this entire scenario is repeated, the 2300 days in context must tie back to Antiochus.

`the daily sacrifice and the transgression of desolation...` (Dan. 8: 13) 2,300 days till sanctuary cleansed. The whole time.

`And from the time of the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination is set up....` (Dan. 12: 11)
1,290 days from when sacrifice taken away till cleansed. Part of the time.

And the `time` in both is - `And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation, even at that time, and at that time your people (Daniel) shall be delivered...` (Dan. 12: 1)

 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,782
3,421
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,794.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
`the daily sacrifice and the transgression of desolation...` (Dan. 8: 13) 2,300 days till sanctuary cleansed. The whole time.

`And from the time of the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination is set up....` (Dan. 12: 11)
1,290 days from when sacrifice taken away till cleansed. Part of the time.

And the `time` in both is - `And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation, even at that time, and at that time your people (Daniel) shall be delivered...` (Dan. 12: 1)
Yes, the transgression of desolation is an act by the person called the little horn in Daniel 8. Of sitting in the temple, claiming to be God.

Followed up by an image made of him and placed on the temple mount, where the Jews and everyone else can see it. The abomination of desolation. Which people will be forced to worship or die. Where the bodies are the eagles will gather.

_____________________________________________________

Matthew 24:15-31 message to the Jews who will end up going through the great tribulation.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Marilyn C
Upvote 0

Oseas

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2017
1,963
179
87
Joinville
✟114,666.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God`s word says - time of the end, latter time of the indignation, appointed time, & so on right through to Dan. 11 & 12. So it is all about the future for Israel.

Greetings Marylin
What you said is true. Words which express the truth.

Dan.7:v.16 - ...“Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the VISION.” (This is sufficy)

17 - ...“Son of man, ... understand that the VISION concerns the time of the END."

19 He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath,
because the VISION concerns the appointed time of the END.

What Gabriel revealed for us is SUFFICY.

John 10:v.1-5

1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him:
for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
 
Upvote 0

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,620
744
78
Home in Tulsa
✟101,967.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
lamad, you are trying to make the time of the end verse to mean -

when the 2300 days are over the 2300 days are over.

That is not what Gabriel indicated. Gabriel indicated when the 2300 day vision of the transgression of desolation will take place at the time of the end. End times, last days, latter days, latter years.



lamad, I did not pull anything out of context. Verse 22 is historic. Verse 23 is time of the end, trangressors - transgression of desolation, the 2300 days.
when the 2300 days are over the 2300 days are over.
I would say it this way, when the time of "indignation" caused by Antiochus and his host - i.e. NO daily sacrifices, the temple trampled by the Host, all attempts to worship the God of creation punished severely - when all this ends, the sanctuary will be cleansed, and the Daily sacrifices will begin, and the 2300 days will be over, because that is what the 2300 days was tied to.

Gabriel indicated when the 2300 day vision of the transgression of desolation will take place at the time of the end. End times, last days, latter days, latter years.
You are still missing it! end of WHAT? Daniel TELLS US! You can't form doctrine by pulling verses out of context and then believe you are correct. Read it again:

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. [God allowed Antiochus to attack Israel with an army ("an host") due to the sins of the people: "transgressions." For some time Antiochus prospered. Notice, several verses now about Antiochus from The Seleucus general and in particular, he came against the "daily sacrifices" and STOPPED them.]

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? [Here we see "concerning the daily sacrifice"...from the previous verse: "against the daily sacrifice." After Antiochus entered the most Holy place, the temple was polluted. The daily sacrifices had to stop and the temple cleansed before they could continue again. Of course, when he slew a pig in the temple, it was ever so much more polluted.
If you wish the 2300 days to be future, then you are saying that verse 13 must also be future, when it is started by "then," tying it to verse 12. So you are then saying that verse 12 must be future. Verse 12 starts with "and," tying it to verse 11, so you are saying that verse 11 must be future. Verse 11 starts with "yes," tying it to verse 10. So you are saying that verse 10 must then be future. The truth is, NONE of these verses are future; they are about Antiochus, up to and including the 2300 days and then to the end of the chapter. ]

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. [So here is the answer: 2300 days the temple would be trampled by the Host of Antiochus and NO daily sacrifices. This could not be any clearer: it is about THEN, not our future. THIS is the vision that Gabriel will interpret.]

All this above is what Gabriel interpreted.

20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. [Ties to verses 3 & 4]

3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.

4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.


21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. [Ties to verses 5-7]

5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.

7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.


22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
[ties to verse 8]

8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. [Ties to verse 9] ["Their" has an antecedent: the four kingdoms: Gabriel is talking about the later time of THEIR kingdom: it must tie back to the four kingdoms. They were all GREECE so Gabriel lumped them together as one kingdom. He knew that there was only two kingdoms of the four left when Antiochus came into power and then Antiochus defeated and occupied most of Egypt. The Diadochi became pretty much one kingdom. Gabriel did not jump two thousand plus years into the future.

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
[ties to verse 10]

10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
[Ties to verse 11]

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.

I still maintain, Gabriel just explained the vision concerning the Ram, then the Goat, then the four Generals, then the Little Horn from one of the four. He was not talking about our future.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Oseas

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2017
1,963
179
87
Joinville
✟114,666.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yes, the transgression of desolation is an act by the person called the little horn in Daniel 8. Of sitting in the temple, claiming to be God.

Yes, you are right. In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions.
Dan.v.3- And
FOUR Great Beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

~~~~~~~~ FOUR GREAT BEASTS FROM THE SEA ~~~~~~~
In my vision. these great Beasts rises up from the sea
(from Gentile peoples) from different nations, and in different times.

The root of the four great Beasts from the sea(from Gentile peoples), from different nations, and in different times, yeah, the root is the four kingdoms revealed in Daniel 2, and these FOUR kingdoms,
as you know, are:

- Babylon whose symbol is a Lion - Dan.7:v.4. Check it out.
- After the kingdom of Babylon, rised up the kingdom of Medo/Persa(Bear); a third kingdom raised, the Greek Empire(Leopard), and the fourth Beast is the the Roman Empire
(DETAIL:unidentified animal), with its evolutions over the years as is written in the verses 7 to 8, as follow:

7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold
a fourth Beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the Beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

8 I considered the (10) horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn
(the Beast like a lamb, with two horns and speaks as a Dragon. This is the false messiah of the Jews, AN IMPOSTOR-John 5:v.43 -
in fact an ESOTERIC, AND KABBALISTIC, AND SPIRITIST messiah - the son of perdition) before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man(vision of Scripture-Old Testament only), and a mouth speaking great things (his abominations), as is written in the verse 11:

verse 11 - I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the
(little) horn spake(he speaks as a Dragon): I beheld even till the Beast was slain, and his body destroyed(7 heads, and 10 horns, and a TAIL), and given to the burning flame. - Revelation 19:v.19-21

FROM THIS POINT AHEAD IS ABOUT GOD'S KINGDOM

9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the Judgment was set, and the books were opened.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and A KINGDOM, that all people, nations, and languages should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.-Dan.2:v.44 and Revelation 11:v.15-18 and 3:v.21-22-
Revelation 3:v.21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
 
Upvote 0

Oseas

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2017
1,963
179
87
Joinville
✟114,666.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The abomination of desolation. Which people will be forced to worship or die.

~~~~~~~~ FOUR GREAT BEASTS FROM THE SEA ~~~~~~~
These great Beasts rises up from the sea (from Gentile peoples) from different nations, and in different times.
Three of them are symbolized: one as Lion, and another as Bear, and the third as Leopard, but the fourth Beast is not associated to any kind of specific animal; I'm astonished because of this. What is the mystery? Maybe it is because this Beast has 10 horns, of my knowledge there is not any kind of animal in the nature with ten horns, besides other details of the Beast.
(It is certainly very deep. The false lamb, the false messiah(John 5:v.43) , he is also a Jew, and he is from one of the 10 tribes of Israel, it may be from the tribe of Dan as prophesied Jacob -Genesis:49:v.16-17. The false messiah(John 5:v.43) will rise up from the earth-Israel-exactly from one of the ten tribes of Israel).

P.S.
The false lamb, the false messiah-John 5:v.43- has two horns. Two horns represent the two kingdoms of Israel, but he will rise up from one of the 10 tribes of Israel, as prophesied Jacob. Gen.49:v.16-17

 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,782
3,421
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,794.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
You are still missing it! end of WHAT?
end of the vision of 2300 days.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

"Their" has an antecedent: the four kingdoms:
No. No mention of four persons in Daniel 8:22. The mention is is four kingdoms. Plural. All historic to us.

Verse 23, differently, is about the kingdom of the transgressors. When the transgressors come to a full - who the little horn, will stand up when those transgressors have their kingdom.

The ten kings in Daniel 7 and the ten kings in Revelation rule with the beast during his time.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,782
3,421
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,794.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The false lamb, the false messiah-John 5:v.43- has two horns. Two horns represent the two kingdoms of Israel, but he will rise up from one of the 10 tribes of Israel, as prophesied Jacob. Gen.49:v.16-17
The second beast in Revelation 13 is not the false messiah, but the false prophet. The false prophet imitates the miracle of Elijah, but calling fire down from heaven.

Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
 
Upvote 0

Oseas

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2017
1,963
179
87
Joinville
✟114,666.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The second beast in Revelation 13 is not the false messiah, but the false prophet. The false prophet imitates the miracle of Elijah, but calling fire down from heaven.


You should study better what your are preaching. If you look well, you will see that does not exist in any place of Scriptures that say a prophet, true or false, is as being a lamb, but a Messiah, of course, as I can prove by / through Scriptures, as follow, but I do not believe Scriptures give you suport to what you are saying.

Here goes what says Scriptures - Lamb as a Messiah

Isaiah 53:v.7- He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a
lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

John 1:v.29 - The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the
Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 1:v.36 - And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith,
Behold the Lamb of God!

1Peter 1:v.19 -
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Revelation 13:v.8 - And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names
are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.


Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
[/QUOTE]

Who will do great wonders so he makes FIRE come down from heaven is the false messiah, he is the own Satan incarnate, in his world there is not any more powerful than him, whoever he is. What Satan will do, having two horns like a lamb, a false lamb, and speak as a Dragon, a false messiah of the Jews(John 5:v.43), of course, yeah, what he will do it is prophetic and will fulfil LITERALLY. Revelation 13:v.11-18 [/QUOTE]
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,620
744
78
Home in Tulsa
✟101,967.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
iamlamad said:
"Their" has an antecedent: the four kingdoms:

...

No. No mention of four persons in Daniel 8:22. The mention is is four kingdoms. Plural. All historic to us.

Verse 23, differently, is about the kingdom of the transgressors. When the transgressors come to a full - who the little horn, will stand up when those transgressors have their kingdom.

The ten kings in Daniel 7 and the ten kings in Revelation rule with the beast during his time.

No. No mention of four persons in Daniel 8:22.
Perhaps you need glasses! ;-)
Here are several different translations of part of verse 22 and 23:

ASV four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not with his power. And in the latter time of their kingdom,

AMP four kingdoms will rise from his (Alexander’s) nation, although not with his power and heritage.
At the latter period of their reign

CSB represent four kingdoms. They will rise from that nation, but without its power.
Near the end of their kingdoms

CEB four kingdoms will come from one nation, but these four won’t have the strength of the first one.
When their kingship nears its end

ERV Those four kingdoms will come from the nation of the first king, but they will not be as strong as the first king.
When the end is near for those kingdoms

EXB Those four kingdoms will come from ·the nation of the first king [L his nation], but ·they will not be as strong as the first king [L not with his power/strength].
When the end comes near for those kingdoms

GW Four kingdoms will come out of that nation, but they won’t be as strong as the first king was.
In the last days of those kingdoms

GNT the four kingdoms into which that nation will be divided and which will not be as strong as the first kingdom.
When the end of those kingdoms is near

ISV four kingdoms that will come from his nation, but they will not have his strength.
Toward the end of their rule

JUB means that four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his strength.
And at the end of their empire

TLB the Grecian Empire will break into four sections with four kings, none of them as great as the first.
Toward the end of their kingdoms

NOG Four kingdoms will come out of that nation, but they won’t be as strong as the first king was.
In the last days of those kingdoms,

NASB four kingdoms which will arise from his nation, although not with his power.
In the latter period of their rule,

NCV Those four kingdoms will come from the nation of the first king, but they will not be as strong as the first king.
When the end comes near for those kingdoms

Note, "their" or "those" is plural, so there must be a plural noun as the antecedent.
ASV four kingdoms - their
AMP four kingdoms - their
CSB represent four kingdoms - their
CEB four kingdoms - their
ERV Those four kingdoms - those
EXB Those four kingdoms - those
GW Four kingdoms - those
GNT the four kingdoms - Those

ISV four kingdoms - their
JUB means that four kingdoms - their
TLB four sections with four kings - their
NOG Four kingdoms - those
NASB four kingdoms - their
NCV Those four kingdoms - those

Every translation has either "their" or "those" as pronouns, and ever translation has an antecedent for the pronoun: Mostly "four kingdoms.

"their kingdom comes from the Greek malkuwth so could be translated:
Their kingdom (Used by far the most)
Their
reign
Their royal
Their realm
Their empire
Their estate

Which every one we chose, they tie back to the antecedent: "four kingdoms."

You are right, no mention of four "persons" but why look for a "person?" Kingdom's suffice. It fits "their" which is plural. Over time, the four Greek "kingdoms" turned into a Greek kingdom. Lysimachus died before Antiochus 4 became king. The Cassander empire lasted to 168 BC. (Antiochus ruled to 164 BC.) They were all a part of the Greek empire of Alexander the Great. I have no problem with Gabriel calling it "A Kingdom." To butcher a scripture simply because of a kingdom vs kingdoms does not make sense to me. it is ONE WORD.

You are trying to Ignore the pronoun - antecedent relationship to fit a theory. All because of a singular "kingdom." Your theory must destroy the pronoun / antecedent relationship. Your theory must ignore the word "their." Next, you pull verse 23 out of its context - all to fit a theory.

Finally, many translations destroy your theory: Here is one:
In the latter period of their rule,

Sorry, but I still don't buy it.
 
Upvote 0

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,620
744
78
Home in Tulsa
✟101,967.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
`the daily sacrifice and the transgression of desolation...` (Dan. 8: 13) 2,300 days till sanctuary cleansed. The whole time.

`And from the time of the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination is set up....` (Dan. 12: 11)
1,290 days from when sacrifice taken away till cleansed. Part of the time.

And the `time` in both is - `And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation, even at that time, and at that time your people (Daniel) shall be delivered...` (Dan. 12: 1)
Except the 2300 days was for Antiochus's time, not our future.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,782
3,421
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,794.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
ou are right, no mention of four "persons" but why look for a "person?" Kingdom's suffice. It fits "their" which is plural.
The antecedent of the "their" is the transgressors in the verse itself.

It won't make sense who the transgressor are, without knowledge of Daniel 7 and Revelation 13 and Revelation 17 and 2Thessalonians2:4.

The transgressors are the little horn person and the ten kings that hand their kingdom over to him. And they rule with him that last 42 months of the 7 years.

You are trying to Ignore the pronoun - antecedent relationship to fit a theory. All because of a singular "kingdom." Your theory must destroy the pronoun / antecedent relationship. Your theory must ignore the word "their." Next, you pull verse 23 out of its context - all to fit a theory.
No, it is not just that. The king of fierce countenance dares to face off against the Prince of Princes - which will happen at the end of the seven years.

And that the king of fierce announce destroys many by peace. Which following Gog/Magog, the little horn enters the middle east with a strong army. He will be perceived by the Jews as the messiah, anointed the king of Israel by the false prophet. And the world will be saying peace and safety, until he goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God - the transgression of desolation.

During the 2300 day vision, at the time of the end.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

klutedavid

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
9,346
4,381
Sydney, Australia.
✟244,844.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Yes, the transgression of desolation is an act by the person called the little horn in Daniel 8. Of sitting in the temple, claiming to be God.

Followed up by an image made of him and placed on the temple mount, where the Jews and everyone else can see it. The abomination of desolation. Which people will be forced to worship or die. Where the bodies are the eagles will gather.

_____________________________________________________

Matthew 24:15-31 message to the Jews who will end up going through the great tribulation.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Don't exclude Luke 21 and only quote from Matthew 24. Otherwise you will overlook that it was a warning for the people of Judea. The desolation of the temple and the sacking of Jerusalem.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,620
744
78
Home in Tulsa
✟101,967.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
God`s word says - time of the end, latter time of the indignation, appointed time, & so on right through to Dan. 11 & 12. So it is all about the future for Israel.
Sorry, but you are mistaken: Gabriel retelling the vision and explaining it:

22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
[The "four" was the four generals that divided the kingdom]
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
[Notice the "their." It must have an antecedent: and that antecedent is "four kingdoms." In other words, verse 23 is tied to verse 22, and verses 22 is tied to verse 21. Of course people pull verse 23 out of its context, but they end up with error. ]

THE END:

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
[We MUST watch the context: He will explain what "end." It is the end of the terrible things Antiiochus did.]
19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be. [Now we know what "end" Gabriel was talking about; the very end in the vision where Antiochus did terrible things to the Jews and their religion. Not what Gabriel starts with below: the SAME VISION]

20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
 
Upvote 0