Is The Eternal Sonship of Jesus Christ Biblical? Part 2

Bond-servant of Christ

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JOHN 1:14

"And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father..."

A text that is appealed to, which is thought to teach the doctrine of the Eternal Generation of the Son. Commenting on the Greek word μονογενοϛ, which is translated as only-begotten in the King James Version, Dr A Plummer says, that when it is "applied to our Lord... it refers to His eternal generation from the Father" (on John's Gospel, p.72). This is the same interpretation as given by Dr Gill, as quoted above. But, is understanding of this text is incorrect on two counts. Firstly, only-begotten is not the correct rendering of the Greek μονογενοϛ, which is a compound word, which is made up from μονοϛ (only), and γενοϛ (kind), literally, "of a single kind", or "unique" (W F Ardnt and F W Gingrich; A Greek-English Lexicon, p.529). Dr Joseph Thayer, who was a Unitarian, has an interesting definition on this Greek word.

"single of its kind, only...used of Christ, denotes the only Son of God or one who in the sense in which He Himself is the Son of God, has no brethren. He is so spoken of by John, not because the Logos which was in Him was eternally generated by God the Father (the orthodox interpretation), or came forth from the being of God just before the beginning of the world (Subordinationism), but because by the Incarnation of the Logos in Him, He is of nature or essentially Son of God" (Greek-English Lexicon, pp.417-418).

Here Dr Thayer shows that the word μονογενοϛ is not used to teach the Eternal Generation, but has to do with the Uniqueness of One Who is the Son of God, by nature. Had John wished to teach the begetting of Jesus here, then he would have used the Greek μονογεννητοϛ (J Moulton and G Milligan; The Vocabulary of the Greek Testament, pp.416-417). Our only-begotten is due to the mis-rendering of the Greek μονογενοϛ in the Latin, where, instead of the reading of the Old Latin unicus (one of its kind, unique), the Latin Vulgate wrongly uses the word unigenitus (only-begotten), which no doubt was due to this doctrine (see, T Herbert Bindley; The Oecumenical Documents of the faith, p.28).

The second reason, and no less important, is the fact that in the Greek text, John did not use the preposition εκ, which could be used to denote "out of", as from a source, in which case the proponents of the Eternal Generation would have had a very strong text in their faviour. John uses the preposition παρα, which literally denotes, "from besides", which cannot be used to teach the Eternal Generation, as it does not refer to the source! It is interesting to note, that this teaching of the Son as deriving His being from the Father, was also extended to the Holy Spirit. Here also the orthodox sought from Scripture to justify their teaching, and used John 15:26, "the Spirit of Truth Who comes forth from the Father". Here, like in John 1:14, it is the preposition παρα that is used, which clearly denotes that the Father and Holy Spirit are separate Persons! However, in at least two Church Creeds, Mopsuetia, and Constantinople (both 4th century), the preposition παρα has been substituted by εκ (J N D Kelly; Early Christian Creeds, pp.188, 298), which is then taken to teach that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the being of the Father (see, Bibdley, p.78). Unfortunately, Church fathers, such as Athanasius, when referring to this text, introduce the substitution (εκ for παρα) as if it were part of the text!

GALATIANS 4:4

"God sent forth His Son, born of a woman..."

This, and other texts, like John 3:16 (God so loved the world, that He sent His one and only Son...), are used by proponents of the Eternal Son-ship of Christ. It is argued, that since we read that "God sent His Son", then He must have been His "Son" before His Incarnation, and therefore the Eternal Son of God. I think that this line of argument is reading too much into these texts. Paul, like John, a merely stating a fact about someone Who is known to their readers as already "the Son". This language cannot be taken as an argument to prove that Jesus already the Son. John, in his opening chapter of his Gospel, is writing about John the Baptist, where he says in verse six: "there was a man sent from God, whose name was John". Now, here we read that John the Baptist was sent from God. Are we to conclude from this, that John existed as John, before this time? Surely not! Neither does it prove, that Just because we read that God sent His Son, that he needed to be the Son prior to this time. If this example is not good enough, then we shall take another. Keeping to this Gospel, we read of Jesus' Prayer in chapter 17, where in verse three we read: "And this is eternal life, that they might know thee, the only True God, and Jesus Christ Whom thou hast sent". In the last clause, we read the words, "Jesus Christ Whom thou hast sent". Are we to conclude from this, that our Lord, prior to His Incarnation, already was Jesus Christ, Whom the Father sent? This would be most absurd, as Matthew's Gospel clearly tells us, that at His birth, "His Name shall be called Jesus" (1:21), which He not have been Prior to his birth!

Likewise, we read in Luke 1:35, where the Angel tells Mary that, "the Holy one to be born of thee, shall be called the Son of God". If Jesus were already the Son, then we would have expected the Greek καλειται to have been used, which properly denotes "is called the Son of God". The text actually reads κληθησεται, which is in the future tense, where the above translation "shall be called", is correct. The grammar of the Greek text is very precise. As important is the text in Hebrews chapter one, where we read in verse five: "and again, I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son". Again, it the future εσομαι (will be) and εσται (shall be) are used. This is a prophecy that is found in 2 Samuel 7:14, which is speaking of the Messiah, Who shall be known as the Son of God. There can be no doubt that Scripture is clear to the fact, that the Son-ship of Jesus belongs to His Incarnation, and never used of Him prior to that!

ACTS 13:33

"Thou art My Son, this day have I begotten Thee"

This is one of the strongest texts of those who teach the Eternal Son-ship, and Eternal Generation doctrines, as this one text is supposed to teach both doctrines!

Here we have the English word "art" (are), which is a translation of the Greek συ, and which is in the present tense. Then, we also have the word "begotten", which is from the Greek γεγεννηκα, which literally means, "to bring forth". Two factors will prove that this text, which is quoted from Psalm 2:7, does not teach either of these two doctrines. Firstly, by saying "thou art", God the Father is making an affirmative statement about Jesus Christ, that He is His Son. Likewise at Jesus' Baptism, and Transfiguration, where we read the Father saying: "This is (εστιν, present tense) My Son...", words that are spoken to reassure the disciples. Since the text is a prophecy in the Psalm, we cannot build the doctrine of the Eternal Son-ship on it. Secondly, the key to the timing of these words, whether they refer to the eternal past, or to Jesus' Incarnation, will be found in the words, "this day have I begotten thee". Psalm 2:7 is quoted three times in the New Testament. The one time in Acts, as we have seen above, and twice in Hebrews (1:5; 5:5). As we shall see, the "this day", far from being a reference to some time in the past, which is seen by some as "eternal", is a clear reference to the Incarnation of Jesus Christ, the day when He was "conceived" in the womb of the virgin Mary, by the act of God the Holy Spirit. To be able to have a perfect understanding of these quotations, I feel that we ought to spent some time looking at each one.

ACTS 13:33

Here we have Paul addressing his audience in a synagogue, when he says: "God had fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that He hath raised up Jesus; as it is written in the second Psalm: 'Thou art My Son, this day I have begotten thee'" There are some who seen in these words, a reference to the resurrection of Jesus Christ, because of the use of the words "raised up". But, this is incorrect, as in verse 22 we read of God raising up David (same Greek word), which can only refer to his birth, as David has not yet been raised from the dead! In fact, in verses 30 and 34 of this same chapter in Acts, we read the words: "raised Him ("up". ver34)from the dead", where it clearly speaks of our Lords resurrection. Verse 34 begins with the words: "and as concerning that He raised Him up from the dead..."; which clearly shows that verse 33 cannot be a reference to Jesus' resurrection. (see, F F Bruce; The Acts of the Apostles; Greek Text, p.269; and, The Expositor's Greek Testament, vol. II, pp.295-296). I am aware of the reading of verse 33 in the King James Version, where it has it: "In that He raised up Jesus again"; where "again" has no corresponding word in the Greek!

HEBREWS 1:5

"For unto which of the Angels said He at any time: 'Thou art My Son, this day have I begotten Thee...and again when He brings forth the First-born..." (also verse 6a).

Here verse six holds the answer to the words in verse five (This day...). Here Paul says "again, when He brings forth the First-born". By using the Greek παλιν, Paul meant, "once more" (E Robinson; Greek-English Lexicon, p.586; J Parkhurst Greek-English Lexicon, p.453). Verse six clearly refers to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, a fact that no one one will dispute. With παλιν Paul wishes to connect verse six (the Second Coming), with verse five, which teaches the First Coming, or else the use of παλιν in verse six is superfluous. There can be no doubt that verse five refers to the Incarnation of Jesus Christ.

HEBREWS 5:5

"So also Christ glorified not Himself to be made a High Priest; but He that said unto Him, Thou art My Son, this day have I begotten Thee"

Here we read of Jesus as our High Priest, where His appointment was not of Himself, but it is the Father Who said to Him, "This day...", Who appointed Him. This text ties in with the references in Acts and Hebrews 1:5, which both refer to the Incarnation of Jesus. It is highly improbable that the reference in Acts, and the one in Hebrews 1 would refer to Christ's Incarnation, whereas the reference in Hebrews 5, speaks of another time.

It is further argued, that passages like John 3:13, and 6:62, which speak of "the Son of man" as coming from heaven, clearly indicate that Jesus must have been the Son in heaven before He came down. But, these Scriptures by no mean prove the Eternal Son-ship. The Title The Son of man is found in the book of Daniel in the Old Testament, chapter seven. This Title is used to describe the Messiah, something that Jesus was not prior to His birth. Now, had John 6:62, for example, read "What and if ye shall see the Son ascend up where He was before?"; then proponents of the Eternal Son-ship doctrine would have had a very strong text on their side. But nothing can be gained by them from the text reading Son of man. It is quite evident, that had Jesus wished to show that He was the Son prior to His Incarnation, then He would have said "Son of God", and not "Son of man". The former refers to His Deity (Divine Nature), whereas the latter to His Humanity (human nature), and which is a Title of the Messiah. It is like 1 Corinthians 15:47, where Paul's speaks of "the second man", Who is Jesus Christ, Whom he says "is the Lord from heaven". This reading which dates from the middle of the second century (textual evidence), has been corrupted to read: "the second man is from heaven", which has led to heresy, where it is claimed that Paul here teaches that Jesus was a heavenly man (that is, according to His human nature) before His birth from Mary. But Paul clearly says that "the second man is the Lord from heaven", like he says in 1 Timothy 3:16, "God was manifest in the flesh". It never says in Scripture that "the Son (or, Son of God) was made flesh", but it clearly does say as we have seen in 1 Timothy 3:16, and in John 1:14, that "God became flesh"

Scripture does say that "in the beginning was the Word". It also says that "God was manifest". And that Jesus is "the Lord (YHWH) from heaven". There is no doubt in my mind that the Son-ship of Jesus Christ, belongs to His Incarnation, prior to which He was not the Son. He assumed the Title Son, because at his Incarnation He took on a role where he became subject to God the Father, thus showing the perfect Father-Son relationship in the Godhead.
 
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Bond-servant of Christ

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do you believe that the son was with the Father before the creation ?

yes or no answer please

John 1:1-2, is exactly what I believe.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning"
 
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John 1:1-2, is exactly what I believe.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning"

i specifically asked "do you believe that the son was with the Father before the creation ?

so again yes or no
 
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as Father and Son. NO

Jesus believed he shared in the same glory with the Father before the world was

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
 
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Bond-servant of Christ

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Jesus believed he shared in the same glory with the Father before the world was

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

you are quoting a text from the New Testament, which is Post-Incarnational, and has no bearing on this. After His Birth, Jesus almost always used "Father", in addressing the First Person of the Holy Trinity.

There is not a single verse in the Old Testament, where God is called the "Father" in relation to the Second Person in the Trinity. In fact, in Isaiah 9:6, Jesus Christ is called, "The Father of eternity", though He is not God the Father! in the OT the Pre-Incarnational Son, is almost always called, "malakh YHWH "messenger of Yahweh". Also in Isaiah 9:6, we read that "For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given", used in Prophecy for the Coming Birth of the Lord Jesus Christ. As in Hebrews 1:5, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son". And Luke 1:35, "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that Holy Child which shall be born of thee shall be called (κληθησεται, future tense) the Son of God".
 
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you are quoting a text from the New Testament, which is Post-Incarnational, and has no bearing on this. After His Birth, Jesus almost always used "Father", in addressing the First Person of the Holy Trinity.

There is not a single verse in the Old Testament, where God is called the "Father" in relation to the Second Person in the Trinity. In fact, in Isaiah 9:6, Jesus Christ is called, "The Father of eternity", though He is not God the Father! in the OT the Pre-Incarnational Son, is almost always called, "malakh YHWH "messenger of Yahweh". Also in Isaiah 9:6, we read that "For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given", used in Prophecy for the Coming Birth of the Lord Jesus Christ. As in Hebrews 1:5, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son". And Luke 1:35, "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that Holy Child which shall be born of thee shall be called (κληθησεται, future tense) the Son of God".

we need not make this more than what it is, as i was addressing what you said in your first thread ...

and i quote

"Not too long ago I was charged with heresy, because I said that I did not believe in the Eternal Son-ship of Jesus Christ"

let me ask the same question a different way which has either a yes or no awnswer

do you believe the son of man was in heaven before he was borne of a women ?
 
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Bond-servant of Christ

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do you believe the son of man was in heaven before he was borne of a women ?

your question is vague, let me clarify what I belive to be the Biblical position.

The God of the Holy Bible has always, from all eternity, been a Trinity. The Three "Persons" in the Old Testament, Who are distinct from each other (but not separate), are called Yahweh (YHWH), which means that they are coequal, coeternal, and coessential, with neither Person being any "greater", or "less" than the other, concerning their eternal essential existence. Nor is there any "subordination" in the Godhead of the Persons, regardless of whether one Person is known as "First" and the other, "Second", and the other, "Third". This does NOT refer to their "ranking", or "position" in the Godhead, which is the error in most of the early "creeds" of the Church, and some "evangelicals", and "orthodox".
 
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your question is vague, let me clarify what I belive to be the Biblical position.

The God of the Holy Bible has always, from all eternity, been a Trinity. The Three "Persons" in the Old Testament, Who are distinct from each other (but not separate), are called Yahweh (YHWH), which means that they are coequal, coeternal, and coessential, with neither Person being any "greater", or "less" than the other, concerning their eternal essential existence. Nor is there any "subordination" in the Godhead of the Persons, regardless of whether one Person is known as "First" and the other, "Second", and the other, "Third". This does NOT refer to their "ranking", or "position" in the Godhead, which is the error in most of the early "creeds" of the Church, and some "evangelicals", and "orthodox".

using different verbiage , same question

can anyone returned to heaven unless they came out of heaven ?
 
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Bond-servant of Christ

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using different verbiage , same question

can anyone returned to heaven unless they came out of heaven ?

can you tell me exactly what you are trying to get from me? I am NOT denying that Jesus Christ is ETERNAL, as are the Father and Holy Spirit. What I do NOT believe to be Biblical, is that Jesus Christ has ALWAYS been "The Son" of God, a completely foreign idea in the OT, which now OT Jew would have believed in!

Better, tell me your own belief from Scripture, with supporting texts
 
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can you tell me exactly what you are trying to get from me? I am NOT denying that Jesus Christ is ETERNAL, as are the Father and Holy Spirit. What I do NOT believe to be Biblical, is that Jesus Christ has ALWAYS been "The Son" of God, a completely foreign idea in the OT, which now OT Jew would have believed in!

Better, tell me your own belief from Scripture, with supporting texts

"can you tell me exactly what you are trying to get from me?"

simple yes or no answers to questions ...

here i will answer them


1) do you believe that the son was with the Father before the creation ? YES
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

2) do you believe the son of man was in heaven before he was borne of a women ? YES
2b) can anyone return to heaven unless they came out of heaven ? NO
And no one has gone up into heaven except the One having come down out of heaven, the Son of Man.

so do you agree or not ?

 
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Bond-servant of Christ

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"can you tell me exactly what you are trying to get from me?"

simple yes or no answers to questions ...

here i will answer them


1) do you believe that the son was with the Father before the creation ? YES
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

2) do you believe the son of man was in heaven before he was borne of a women ? YES
2b) can anyone return to heaven unless they came out of heaven ? NO
And no one has gone up into heaven except the One having come down out of heaven, the Son of Man.

so do you agree or not ?

you are simply quoting from the NT, where Jesus Christ IS known as the SON, how about ONE from the OT?
 
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you are simply quoting from the NT, where Jesus Christ IS known as the SON, how about ONE from the OT?

interesting how you avoid answering simple yes or no questions by trying to deviate elsewhere ...

with regard to your question in relation to the first and the second testament Jesus said all those who came before him were thieves and robbers

"Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door. If anyone enters in by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and will go out and will find pasture.

it is the Father who reveals the son and the son who reveals the Father

All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.

anyway as you have no intention of addressing any of my simple questions i shall be on my way ...
 
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ViaCrucis

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Yes, the Son is eternally the Son. He has His eternal generation from the Father as God of God. Any other teaching is plainly heretical.

From the Nicene Creed
"We believe ... in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten not made, of the same Being as the Father, through whom all things were made,"

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Bond-servant of Christ

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No, this is basic Christian orthodoxy. See the Nicene Creed.

-CryptoLutheran

My Authority is the 66 Books in the Holy Bible, as the ONLY Inspired Word of Almighty God. ALL "creeds" are man-made and have errors!
 
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ViaCrucis

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My Authority is the 66 Books in the Holy Bible, as the ONLY Inspired Word of Almighty God. ALL "creeds" are man-made and have errors!

That doesn't change the fact that the eternal generation of the Son is orthodox Christian teaching. To deny this is to deny the doctrine of the Holy Trinity.

God the Father never became the Father. He has always been God the Father. That's Who He is. He is the Father, and if He is to be called the Father, then He is the Father of someone. That Someone is Jesus Christ, the Eternal Logos, the only-begotten Son of the Father. Jesus didn't become His Father's Son, He has always been the Son, just as His Father has always been the Father.

There has always been the Father, because the Father is eternal.
Thus there has always been the Son. The Son is eternal.

The Son is begotten of the Father, not in time, but in eternity. He is the eternal Son of the Father, and so His generation from the Father is likewise eternal.

If the Son is not eternal, then neither is the Father eternal.

We don't call the Father Father because that's just a title, that's Who He is. That's Who He is in relation to His Son.

This is basic Christian teaching.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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