Is The Eternal Sonship of Jesus Christ Biblical? Part 2

[Bond-servant of Christ]

o deny this is to deny the doctrine of the Holy Trinity.

most certainly NOT! you base your understaning on "creeds" which are NOT inspired by the Holy Spirit, and have many errors!

 

[ViaCrucis]

most certainly NOT! you base your understaning on "creeds" which are NOT inspired by the Holy Spirit, and have many errors!

The doctrine of the Trinity is this:

"We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in unity, neither confusing the Persons, nor dividing the Substance.
...
The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten of any. The Son neither made nor created, but begotten of the Father alone. The Holy Spirit neither made nor created nor begotten, but proceeding from the Father and the Son." - the Athanasian Creed

Your personal opinion about the Historic Creeds isn't relevant. This is Christian doctrine.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

he Son neither made nor created, but begotten of the Father alone

show just ONE text from the Holy Bible, NOT your "creeds" that says this?

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

The Constantinopolitan Creed of 381 A.D., is an amplified version of the Nicene Creed, with more on the Holy Spirit. We read in this Creed the words,"Καὶ εἰς τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον, τὸ κύριον, τὸ ζωοποιόν, τὸ ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς ἐκπορευόμενον". (And we believe in the Holy Spirit the Lord, and Giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father) John 15:26 is given as a "supporting" text for this. However, the actual words in John 15:26, do NOT have the Greek Preposition, "ἐκ" (out of), but, "παρά", which means, "from the side of", and has nothing to do with the "generation" of the Holy Spirit from the Father! This is a wilful corruption of the Word of God, for "theological" purposes!

 

[ViaCrucis]

show just ONE text from the Holy Bible, NOT your "creeds" that says this?

"For to which of the angels did God ever say, 'You are My Son, today I have begotten You'? Or again, 'I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son'? And again, when He brings the firstborn into the world, He says, "Let all God's angels worship Him.' Of the angels He says, 'He makes His angels winds, and His ministers a flame of fire.' But of the Son He says, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness beyond Your companions.' And, 'You, Lord, laid the foundations of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of Your hands; they will perish, but You remain; they will wear out like a garment, like a robe You will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed, But You are the same, and Your years will have no end.'" - Hebrews 1:5-12

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." - Hebrews 13:8

Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of the Father, begotten before all ages, He is God of God, the Word through Whom all things were made. Who for us and our salvation became man, incarnate by the power of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

The Constantinopolitan Creed of 381 A.D., is an amplified version of the Nicene Creed, with more on the Holy Spirit. We read in this Creed the words,"Καὶ εἰς τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον, τὸ κύριον, τὸ ζωοποιόν, τὸ ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς ἐκπορευόμενον". (And we believe in the Holy Spirit the Lord, and Giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father) John 15:26 is given as a "supporting" text for this. However, the actual words in John 15:26, do NOT have the Greek Preposition, "ἐκ" (out of), but, "παρά", which means, "from the side of", and has nothing to do with the "generation" of the Holy Spirit from the Father! This is a wilful corruption of the Word of God, for "theological" purposes!

Straw man. The Holy Spirit is not begotten, the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father [and the Son].

I am curious, have you even bothered to go sit down with your pastor so they could set you straight on these matters? These are things you should know, these are things your church should be teaching you.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

'You are My Son, today I have begotten You'? Or again, 'I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son'?

Speaking of "straw men", well here is one! There is NOTHING in this verse, or the passage that you quoted from in Hebrews, that says ANYTHING about Jesus Christ being "eternally begotten" from the "essence" of God the Father! The "creed" you quote from "begotten before the ages" and "God from God" are UNBIBLICAL statements! Any "begetting" that the Father did, was ONLY when Jesus Christ was "conceived" by God the Holy Spirit, in the womb of Mary. This is VERY CLEAR in the Gospels, if you would care to accept this.

"Now the birth of Jesus Christ happened this way: When his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit...But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto you Mary your wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit." (Matthew 1:18, 20)

"ευρεθη εν γαστρι εχουσα εκ πνευματος αγιου" = she became preganant out of the Holy Spirit. (literally)

"το γαρ εν αυτη γεννηθεν εκ πνευματος εστιν αγιου" = for that which in her is begotten out of the Spirit

"And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that Holy Child which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" (Luke 1:35)

"διο και το γεννωμενον εκ σου αγιον κληθησεται υιος θεου", therefore also the Holy Child begotten out of you, shall be called The Son of God"

The creeds that say, "Θεὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ, Φῶς ἐκ Φωτός, Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ", and very much UNBIBLICAL. They use the Greek preposition "ἐκ", so as to show that in His Deity in the Godhead, Jesus Christ is INFERIOR to the Father. The Father is alone seen as Fons Deitatis, whereas the Lord Jesus Christ, is no more than a "secondary god". This teaching is blasphemy! Jesus Christ, as is the Father and Holy Spirit, very clearly called in the Bible, YAHWEH, this Name means, "the eternal, uncreated God". How then can the Father be said to BEGET Jesus Christ, when He is NO GREATER in the Godhead, than Jesus? Your theology is very much wrong!

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

I am curious, have you even bothered to go sit down with your pastor so they could set you straight on these matters?

I have the Holy Bible, and God the Holy Spirit, what difference can a pastor make?

 

[ViaCrucis]

I have the Holy Bible, and God the Holy Spirit, what difference can a pastor make?

All Christians have the Holy Spirit and the Bible, that hasn't stopped people from teaching heresy in the past.

Talking with someone who is actually trained in theology and biblical hermeneutics sounds like something a wise servant might avail themselves too. St. Paul says pretty clearly that we should not be wise in our own eyes, and looking to ourselves for all the answers is seeking wisdom in ourselves.

You'll notice that no where in the New Testament did the Apostles go someplace and then say, "Here, read the Bible and go figure it all out on your own", what did they do? They put pastors and teachers in charge of safeguarding Christ's flock.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

All Christians have the Holy Spirit and the Bible, that hasn't stopped people from teaching heresy in the past.

Talking with someone who is actually trained in theology and biblical hermeneutics sounds like something a wise servant might avail themselves too. St. Paul says pretty clearly that we should not be wise in our own eyes, and looking to ourselves for all the answers is seeking wisdom in ourselves.

You'll notice that no where in the New Testament did the Apostles go someplace and then say, "Here, read the Bible and go figure it all out on your own", what did they do? They put pastors and teachers in charge of safeguarding Christ's flock.

-CryptoLutheran

interesting how you can "judge" me, without even knowing the first thing about me? I have been studying theology for almost 40 years now. I use both the Hebrew and Greek Testaments, I have numerous Hebrew and Greek and Latin and other language text books, also many very good Bible commentaries, etc, etc. Sadly many pastors today are ill equiped with the Bible and have little or no knowledge of the original languages. The sermons are lightweight and Bible studies are shallow. Check the internet and see the various churches that put stuff online, and you will see that the majority are a waste of time, as they are shallow and teach nothing!