Black/White/Blue/All Lives Matter

SummerMadness

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What makes you think they don't get the death penalty for killing black people; like everyone else?

That claim was never a part of the conversation. And the fact that 90% of black people killed are killed by other black people; the fact that Black lives matter conveniently forget about that fact personifies exactly why they shouldn't be a part of the solution.
Black Lives Matter is focused on police, most people that are murdered are killed by another citizen, most crime is intra-racial. Those facts do not mean that calls for government accountability should be ignored. Attempting to redefine the cause of BLM is a deliberate attempt to mischaracterize the movement, much like when people scream All Lives Matter to undermine calls for police accountability. There are many organizations that focus on crime in general, your lack of knowledge about those organizations and their work does not mean they do not exist.
 
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Pommer

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All the "live matter movements" are just political in nature they don't espouse their namesake. Worst are the "silent is consent" or the "if you're not with us you're against us".

  1. Where were you when the actual Africans were being killed by warlords and terrorist groups in many of the sub-Saharan countries?
  2. Where were you when the Uyghurs were being rounded up into concentration camps in China?
  3. Where were you when Myanmar was cleansing the Rohingya?
  4. Where were you when the Kurds were being bombed by Turkey?
  5. Where were you when the Hong Kongers protest against the CCP?
No where that's where. You're all region locked in your causes. But demand other nations like Japan & Korea to support your causes in "solidarity".

Truth is the lives never mattered. Only the political leverage did.
If your “argument” is that we can simply disregard BLM folk because they didn’t speak out about the things listed, then we can disregard your screed.
People will protest for things that affect themselves and their brethren, if they don’t “measure up” to your ethical standards, you’re free to ignore them, just as I will ignore your position.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Are you saying that when a WHITE man gets shot and killed by police, it's historically been a big deal? Really? Show me the last time a city was burned to the ground over a white person who got shot by police.

I'll wait.

No, white folks don't tend to get as upset about this. AFAIK, there are a few reasons for this:

1.) White folks tend to be more trusting of the police - probably because police abuse has historically not been directed at their communities with any regularity - this is especially true for those white folks who are middle class or above.

2.) (related to #1) Most conservative white folks aren't nearly as libertarian as they pretend to be. IME, they tend to be a lot more authoritarian when it comes to policing that they think doesn't target them. Oh, they'll pinch a fit if the EPA or BLM tries to fine them for improperly draining wetlands on their property and god forbid anybody from the gubmint even look at their guns, but if there are any sort of left-wing protests at all, then the storm troopers can do as they wish.
 
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Ken-1122

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Um...yes, it has always been a big deal, because that is...um...murder??? If you have a case where police got away with murdering a white guy, I bet even BLM will support your cause.
Last year twice as many unarmed white people were killed than unarmed blacks. When is the last time they burned a city down due to the killing of an unarmed white guy? (hint; never)
 
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SummerMadness

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Last year twice as many unarmed white people were killed than unarmed blacks. When is the last time they burned a city down due to the killing of an unarmed white guy? (hint; never)
Ah, the ever present appeal to total while ignoring that the issue is the disproportionate treatment.
 
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Ana the Ist

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White and Blue lives have never not mattered --- never --- NOT EVER. Black lives have seldom mattered. That is the issue right now. The best way I have ever heard it put is below.

If my wife comes to me in obvious pain and asks "Do you love me?" an answer of "I love everyone." would be truthful but hurtful and cruel in the moment.

A marriage is a very personal relationship.

If a co-worker comes to me iupset and says "My father just died." an answer of "Everyone's parents die." would be truthful but hurtful and cruel in the moment.

A co-worker is a working relationship....which can be important to maintain.

So when a friend speaks up in a time of obvious pain and hurt and says "Black lives matter." an answer of "All lives matter." would be truthful but hurtful and cruel in the moment.

~~~ Doug Williford

There is a whole lot of "hurt and cruelty" happening right now that just keeps making matters worse.

My friends wisely don't care about Black Lives Matter....so I only hear that from total strangers. I value the lives of all total strangers the same, regardless of race.

All lives matter.
 
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iluvatar5150

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But the stats do not actually work out to be more or less even. This year's are significantly more IF we take account of the fact that there's a lot more of 2020 to go.

Do you know what it means to annualize something? Yes, those stats work out. No, there aren't significantly more if we account for the fact that we're not finished with 2020. This is basic math.

Right now, the ODMP is showing 44 officer deaths by felonious assault in 2020. That's the sum of Assault, Gunfire (intentional), and Vehicular Assault (I would also include stabbings if there were any this year), and is almost 50% higher than the total from the FBI page that was the source for @renniks' ABC article. I'm not sure where that discrepancy comes from - maybe it's in reporting delays; maybe it's in who's considered law enforcement (e.g. ODMP includes correction officers and federal officers working for the military, like NCIS). Either way, that should work out not in my favor.

Anyways, today is the 259th day of the year. 44 deaths divided by 259 days equals 0.1699 deaths per day. Multiply that by 366 (this is a leap year after all) give you 62. Staying at our current rate, we should wind up with 62 officers killed by felonious assault by the end of this year. Granted, it looks like I rounded a bit too much in my earlier post when I came up with 57 (IIRC, I treated today as the end of September), but last year's total number was 58.
2018 was 65.
2017 was 57.
2016 was 82.
2015 was 54.
2014 was 62.
2013 was 42.
2012 was 65.
2011 was 88.
2010 was 80.

The mean of these years is 65.4
The median is 65.

Those mean and median figures hold true even if you strip out 2013 and 2011 (i.e. the highest and the lowest years)

The number fluctuates year-to-year and if we stay on our current trajectory, that projection of 62 is just a little below average.
 
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Ken-1122

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Black Lives Matter is focused on police,
Really? Then why is it that of all things mentioned in their guiding principles, nowhere are the police mentioned, and nowhere are black men mentioned; assuming it was initially supposed to be about police killing black men
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
most people that are murdered are killed by another citizen, most crime is intra-racial. Those facts do not mean that calls for government accountability should be ignored. Attempting to redefine the cause of BLM is a deliberate attempt to mischaracterize the movement, much like when people scream All Lives Matter to undermine calls for police accountability. There are many organizations that focus on crime in general, your lack of knowledge about those organizations and their work does not mean they do not exist.
Black lives matter has become about white police killing black people, the problem with this is they are focusing 99% of there outrage on 1% of the problem and 1% of their outrage on 99% of the problem. Last year there were 14 unarmed black people killed by the police (compared to 25 unarmed white people). Considering the population, this is a small number
Police shootings myth: Unarmed Black Americans don't face an epidemic
We get twice that amount killed nearly every weekend in Chicago alone! Yet everybody is focusing all of their attention on the Police, and none of their attention on the real problems. Obviously it is much easier to insist someone else change their behavior than for us to change our own; the problem is in this case changing police behavior will only fix 1% of the problem, and unfortunately BLM has succeeded in focusing the nations attention on 1% of the problem, and successfully drawn our attention away from 99% of the problem. IMO this is more harm than good
 
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Oompa Loompa

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White and Blue lives have never not mattered --- never --- NOT EVER. Black lives have seldom mattered. That is the issue right now. The best way I have ever heard it put is below.

If my wife comes to me in obvious pain and asks "Do you love me?" an answer of "I love everyone." would be truthful but hurtful and cruel in the moment.

If a co-worker comes to me iupset and says "My father just died." an answer of "Everyone's parents die." would be truthful but hurtful and cruel in the moment.

So when a friend speaks up in a time of obvious pain and hurt and says "Black lives matter." an answer of "All lives matter." would be truthful but hurtful and cruel in the moment.

~~~ Doug Williford

There is a whole lot of "hurt and cruelty" happening right now that just keeps making matters worse.
It is good to see the Black lives matter>Blue Lives Matter>All Lives Matter cycle make another complete turn. Just wait a few years and "All Lives Matter" is going to be a racist again.
 
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Ken-1122

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Ah, the ever present appeal to total while ignoring that the issue is the disproportionate treatment.
He made the absurd claim that if a white person was killed by the cops, BLM would protest that as well. I was pointing out the absurdity of his claim.
 
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Ken-1122

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, the people who coined the phrase would have hoped that those reading it apply some basic context in how the message was understood
I disagree! I have seen so many BLM supporters become outraged when people try to change it to make it more inclusive. Every time an organization separates themselves based on race, that organization always seem to be or become racist. White organizations that separated themselves on race (in the past) were racist, it shouldn’t be surprising black organizations that do it will be racist as well.
 
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KCfromNC

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Well, since way more cops are being killed now, are we allowed to say "blue lives Matter.' yet?

Not if you're into all lives matter as a response to BLM and want to be seen as constent in the use of that phrase.

All lives matter!

Oh...
 
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KCfromNC

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I disagree! I have seen so many BLM supporters become outraged when people try to change it to make it more inclusive.

Seems like you should be talking to them, then. You know, rather than posting to people who didn't do that here in this thread.
 
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MIDutch

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Outside of totalitarian dictatorships where extrajudicial police killings are a common thing (think Phillipines, North Korea, Russia, etc.), I'd be curious to know if any other countries seem to have the same problems with police killing unarmed civilians (black or otherwise).
 
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Ken-1122

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Seems like you should be talking to them, then. You know, rather than posting to people who didn't do that here in this thread.
The person I was responding to was not speaking on behalf of the people who didn't do that in this thread, he was speaking on behalf of the people who started BLM. So I directed my comments accordingly
 
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Ken-1122

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Outside of totalitarian dictatorships where extrajudicial police killings are a common thing (think Phillipines, North Korea, Russia, etc.), I'd be curious to know if any other countries seem to have the same problems with police killing unarmed civilians (black or otherwise).
I would imagine any country that has as much freedom as we have, and as many guns as we have will have similar results.
 
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Ana the Ist

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People will protest for things that affect themselves and their brethren, if they don’t “measure up” to your ethical standards, you’re free to ignore them, just as I will ignore your position.

Are we free to ignore them? There's a lot of them repeating the slogan "silence is violence"...claiming we're bad people for ignoring them.

Then there's the roving mobs of angry BLM threatening people into shows of support.
 
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