Black/White/Blue/All Lives Matter

[JackRT]

Because it's the inevitable consequence of their worldview. A godless universe doesn't care whether you live or die.

You might be right about the universe but I very much doubt that atheists as a group feel that way.

 

[usexpat97]

I will give this:. I don't hear American atheists saying (or saying with their actions) that black lives mean less than others.

Christians are supposed to hold to a higher standard. Not a lower one.

 

[Strathos]

No, our lives have meaning and value independent of the question of whether deities exist or not.

No but people care whether they live or die. Atheists aren't 'a godless universe.'

You might be right about the universe but I very much doubt that atheists as a group feel that way.

I seem to have dragged the thread off-topic, so I won't pursue this further right now.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Shouldn't the atheist slogan be "no lives matter"?

Because it's the inevitable consequence of their worldview. A godless universe doesn't care whether you live or die.

Like art and love, lives are things that matter to people. Thanks for the off-topic misguided slam though. Much appreciated.

(posted before seeing your last response. No need for a reply.)

 

[Bobber]

White and Blue lives have never not mattered --- never --- NOT EVER. Black lives have seldom mattered.

Nonsense. Black lives have ALWAYS mattered to I think the greatest number of people. Problem with claiming what you do is it doesn't matter how Utopian of a society you create...there will ALWAYS be some examples of injustice towards blacks or a certain individual black and so how perfect of a society do you have to get before you give up on saying black lives don't matter? If Black Lives didn't matter do you think you'd see Obama become President for TWO TERMS? So black lives have to matter to a great, massive amount of people not of their ethnicity.

If my wife comes to me in obvious pain and asks "Do you love me?" an answer of "I love everyone." would be truthful but hurtful and cruel in the moment.

Your analogy can't work for we're not talking about a relationship between spouses. We're talking about one segment of society which should graciously accept that it must be considered that ALL MEN are created equal as found in the Constitutions. All is all inclusive so what's so offensive about that. Your marriage comparison would by definition have to mean you're right to talk about only one party receiving that acknowledgement.

So when a friend speaks up in a time of obvious pain and hurt and says "Black lives matter."

You forget one thing....many, many, many,many, many, many and more besides that have lived out their lives being respectful of all people....of all ethnicities and to insinuate society generally hasn't demonstrated by their actions that all lives matter including blacks is also hurtful. It insinuates that good people haven't recognized and accepted this for years.

And again on your spouse type question...."Do you love me?" You know I've actually heard of marriages running into problems for a spouse continually questions this and they might reply "You ought to know by now." If the spouse continues one always questioning the other's integrity in how they've responded it leads to one getting exasperated and maybe even finally wanting a divorce.

 

[Ken-1122]

White and Blue lives have never not mattered --- never --- NOT EVER. Black lives have seldom mattered. That is the issue right now. The best way I have ever heard it put is below.

If my wife comes to me in obvious pain and asks "Do you love me?" an answer of "I love everyone." would be truthful but hurtful and cruel in the moment.

If a co-worker comes to me iupset and says "My father just died." an answer of "Everyone's parents die." would be truthful but hurtful and cruel in the moment.

So when a friend speaks up in a time of obvious pain and hurt and says "Black lives matter." an answer of "All lives matter." would be truthful but hurtful and cruel in the moment.

~~~ Doug Williford

There is a whole lot of "hurt and cruelty" happening right now that just keeps making matters worse.

Everybody knows black people's lives matter. To go around acting as if this is something people need to be told, is condescending and wrong. All lives matter include black lives as well.

 

[Ken-1122]

It's always been "Black lives matter, TOO" -- not "Black Lives Matter ONLY".

It's never been black lives matter TOO. It has always been black lives matter, and they hate it when you try to change it to make it less racist and more inclusive.

 

[usexpat97]

It's never been black lives matter TOO. It has always been black lives matter, and they hate it when you try to change it to make it less racist and more inclusive.

Then white people need to get the death penalty for murdering black people, the same as everyone else. And you conveniently forgetting that fact personifies exactly why a Black Lives Matter movement is even necessary.

 

[IceJad]

All the "live matter movements" are just political in nature they don't espouse their namesake. Worst are the "silent is consent" or the "if you're not with us you're against us".

1. Where were you when the actual Africans were being killed by warlords and terrorist groups in many of the sub-Saharan countries?
2. Where were you when the Uyghurs were being rounded up into concentration camps in China?
3. Where were you when Myanmar was cleansing the Rohingya?
4. Where were you when the Kurds were being bombed by Turkey?
5. Where were you when the Hong Kongers protest against the CCP?

No where that's where. You're all region locked in your causes. But demand other nations like Japan & Korea to support your causes in "solidarity".

Truth is the lives never mattered. Only the political leverage did.

 

[Nithavela]

I sincerely hope - no, I PRAY that this debate goes the same way as COVID does in 2021.

A huge third wave that kills millions?

 

[Kenny'sID]

White and Blue lives have never not mattered --- never --- NOT EVER. Black lives have seldom mattered. That is the issue right now. The best way I have ever heard it put is below.

If my wife comes to me in obvious pain and asks "Do you love me?" an answer of "I love everyone." would be truthful but hurtful and cruel in the moment.

If a co-worker comes to me iupset and says "My father just died." an answer of "Everyone's parents die." would be truthful but hurtful and cruel in the moment.

So when a friend speaks up in a time of obvious pain and hurt and says "Black lives matter." an answer of "All lives matter." would be truthful but hurtful and cruel in the moment.

~~~ Doug Williford

There is a whole lot of "hurt and cruelty" happening right now that just keeps making matters worse.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I defended just that years ago here, and still feel the same way to a point, however after engaging with and seeing how some here represent the cause, as well as how their reps have acted in the riots, I have become a bit more bitter towards it.

For instance, when BLM kill or injure, anyone but themselves, blue lives and such, other lives begin to matter and BLM, not so much.

IOW, it's no longer so cut and dried.

 

[KCfromNC]

Then why don’t the T-shirts say “too?”

I'll notice you only ask about T-shirts here, ignoring other forms of messaging which also use the slogan. Did you mean to ask this very specific question, or was there some understanding that people would be able to extrapolate from the literal meaning of what you wrote and understand the bigger context of your brief message?

If so, seems like you've answered your own question. That is, the people who coined the phrase would have hoped that those reading it apply some basic context in how the message was understood rather than having some go out of their way - for whatever reason - to read it in the most literal, least charitable way possible.

 

[KCfromNC]

Shouldn't the atheist slogan be "no lives matter"?

No, that's a really dumb slogan that I doubt anyone would actually believes represents the views of non-believers. Reads more like something someone would come up with to malign that group, or maybe just comes across as a lame attempt to distract the conversation.

Thanks for asking, though.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

There's no such thing as "Blue" lives unless you're talking about Smurfs or maybe this guy.

Being a police officer is a job, regardless of how those who go into that career may say they "eat, sleep, and breathe" being a cop. At the end of the day, after shooting a guy seven times in the back, or choking out a dude selling cigarettes, or an autistic guy innocently walking down the street and shooting him up with ketamine who later dies at the hospital while the cop is safely tucked into his bed at home, the cop gets to take off his uniform and badge and run up to the store and nobody knows he's a cop for a living. A black man can't take off his skin at the end of the day. I mean, unless he's thrown into a scalding hot, high pressure shower for several hours.

 

[Bobber]

That is, the people who coined the phrase would have hoped that those reading it apply some basic context in how the message was understood rather than having some go out of their way - for whatever reason - to read it in the most literal, least charitable way possible.

I agree to a point. There are those who have used the phrase with no other intent except to make a point. But if such ones would hope that people not read it in the least charitable way possible then they should offer the same grace to people who respond with All Lives Matter and not be offended. It goes without saying when one does a micro focus on the phrase and brings it down the one ethnicity it should have been known it moves people to the overriding principle that All Lives Matter. So in putting out the original term all should have known it was divisive to begin with and would cause a flare up of contention. Even with that I'm not against the term being used if at least when others responded with ALM that they say we totally agree and you're right to say that too....but we do want to make this point. That doesn't seem to be what we've seen at all at least not much.

 

[KCfromNC]

I agree to a point. There are those who have used the phrase with no other intent except to make a point. But if such ones would hope that people not read it in the least charitable way possible then they should offer the same grace to people who respond with All Lives Matter and not be offended.

When "All Lives Matter" is consistently brought up as a way to sidestep the intended meaning of Black Lives Matters, I don't see why the people using the first phrase deserve the benefit of the doubt.

So in putting out the original term all should have known it was divisive to begin with

Even if we accept that the idea that it is "divisive" to think it is a bad thing to have black citizens be disproportionately targeted by police violence, this still reads like blaming the victim. It isn't the fault of the people who chose the phrase that others seem intent to actively misunderstand it to further their political goals.

 

[ReesePiece23]

A huge third wave that kills millions?

So sardonic it lacks all logic - have you been at the gin and tonic?

 

[NerdGirl]

Black lives have seldom mattered.

To who? Who do you claim to speak for with this? You cannot tell another person what matters or doesn't matter to them. You can only speak for what matters and doesn't matter to yourself.

This quote above is absolute bull. It's perpetuating a victim mentality.

 

[NerdGirl]

White and Blue lives have never not mattered --- never --- NOT EVER.

Unless you're a police officer who pulls a gun on a black criminal in 2020. Or a white Trump supporter getting beaten or threatened or gunned down. Pretty sure those lives "don't matter" to the libs and the mainstream media, which is why there's no sympathy, no outrage, no cries for justice, for any of them.