Religious goals in vegetarianism

cloudyday2

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Many people practice vegetarianism as part of their religion, but two people practicing vegetarianism are not necessarily hoping to achieve the same goals. I thought it would be interesting to think about the variety of religious goals that might motivate the practice of vegetarianism.

(1) Depriving the brain of nutrients in animal meat might be a way to create an altered state and contact the spirit world. Vegetarianism requires a lot of nutritional knowledge to keep the brain healthy. My psychotherapists have always emphasized the importance of a good diet with lots of protein.

(2) There is the odd treatment of fish in Christianity and Judaism. During fasts it is sometimes o.k. to eat fish but not land animals. This might indicate some interesting beliefs about fish spirits versus land animal spirits, but what?

(3) There is the belief that humans are reincarnated into animals but never into plants as far as I know. This might be part of the motivation for vegetarianism in reincarnation religions and suggest some religious distinction between animals and plants.

(4) In Genesis there seems to be an acknowledgement that eating animals is a necessary evil rather than an ideal, because this was not allowed by God until after Noah's flood. Again this is evidence of a belief that killing an animal is somehow worse than killing a plant.

(5) In Judaism there is a special treatment of blood. The life is somehow connected to blood. Plants do not have blood, so this might explain the distinction between killing animals and killing plants. Fish often do not have very much blood compared to land animals, and that might be a factor in the allowance for eating fish while fasting from meat.

My hypothesis is that beings have both a collective spirit and an individual spirit. The individual spirit is more pronounced in animals than in plants, so killing an individual animal is more spiritually consequential than killing an individual plant. This is why vegetarianism is often desired in religions.
 
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FireDragon76

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Many people practice vegetarianism as part of their religion, but two people practicing vegetarianism are not necessarily hoping to achieve the same goals. I thought it would be interesting to think about the variety of religious goals that might motivate the practice of vegetarianism.

(1) Depriving the brain of nutrients in animal meat might be a way to create an altered state and contact the spirit world. Vegetarianism requires a lot of nutritional knowledge to keep the brain healthy. My psychotherapists have always emphasized the importance of a good diet with lots of protein.

There doesn't seem to be any real evidence for this perspective. Euro-American vegetarians are no more likely to be spiritual than anybody else. Aside from the Jain religion, there are no major world religions that actually require strict adherence to a vegetarian diet for all its adherents. And Jains aren't fasting from meat (and other foods) for the purposes of having altered states of consciousness, but because they believe they avoid karma by doing so.

The amount of protein that human beings actually need will vary with their circumstances, but generally it's lower than what many Americans assume. Most people eat too much rather than too little. And indeed, excess protein can contribute to serious health problems, such as gout, kidney stones, and so on.
 
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Sketcher

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(2) There is the odd treatment of fish in Christianity and Judaism. During fasts it is sometimes o.k. to eat fish but not land animals. This might indicate some interesting beliefs about fish spirits versus land animal spirits, but what?
Christianity and Judaism do not believe that either land animals or fish have spirits.

(5) In Judaism there is a special treatment of blood. The life is somehow connected to blood. Plants do not have blood, so this might explain the distinction between killing animals and killing plants. Fish often do not have very much blood compared to land animals, and that might be a factor in the allowance for eating fish while fasting from meat.
Actually, fish blood is not the same as the blood of birds and land animals according to Jewish law. Nor is insect blood, IIRC. The fish and the insect of course, must be kosher.

My hypothesis is that beings have both a collective spirit and an individual spirit. The individual spirit is more pronounced in animals than in plants, so killing an individual animal is more spiritually consequential than killing an individual plant. This is why vegetarianism is often desired in religions.
If you can find a religion that believes that, that would be the answer according to that religion only. People's motivations for a vegetarian diet will depend on the people themselves, best to ask people with those diets and motivations why they have them if that is what you are after.
 
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cloudyday2

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If you can find a religion that believes that, that would be the answer according to that religion only. People's motivations for a vegetarian diet will depend on the people themselves, best to ask people with those diets and motivations why they have them if that is what you are after.
Isn't that what I'm doing with this thread? LOL

That is very interesting information about insect blood and fish blood in Judaism. I was not aware of that.
 
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LightBearer

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Many people practice vegetarianism as part of their religion, but two people practicing vegetarianism are not necessarily hoping to achieve the same goals. I thought it would be interesting to think about the variety of religious goals that might motivate the practice of vegetarianism.

(1) Depriving the brain of nutrients in animal meat might be a way to create an altered state and contact the spirit world. Vegetarianism requires a lot of nutritional knowledge to keep the brain healthy. My psychotherapists have always emphasized the importance of a good diet with lots of protein.

(2) There is the odd treatment of fish in Christianity and Judaism. During fasts it is sometimes o.k. to eat fish but not land animals. This might indicate some interesting beliefs about fish spirits versus land animal spirits, but what?

(3) There is the belief that humans are reincarnated into animals but never into plants as far as I know. This might be part of the motivation for vegetarianism in reincarnation religions and suggest some religious distinction between animals and plants.

(4) In Genesis there seems to be an acknowledgement that eating animals is a necessary evil rather than an ideal, because this was not allowed by God until after Noah's flood. Again this is evidence of a belief that killing an animal is somehow worse than killing a plant.

(5) In Judaism there is a special treatment of blood. The life is somehow connected to blood. Plants do not have blood, so this might explain the distinction between killing animals and killing plants. Fish often do not have very much blood compared to land animals, and that might be a factor in the allowance for eating fish while fasting from meat.

My hypothesis is that beings have both a collective spirit and an individual spirit. The individual spirit is more pronounced in animals than in plants, so killing an individual animal is more spiritually consequential than killing an individual plant. This is why vegetarianism is often desired in religions.

Interestingly, Man was originally created to have a meat free diet.

Gen 1:29 "Then God said: “Here I have given to you every seed-bearing plant that is on the entire earth and every tree with seed-bearing fruit. Let them serve as food for you. (No meat in this diet)

Only after the flood did God give Man permission to eat meat as part as his diet.

Gen 9:2,3 "A fear of you and a terror of you will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that moves on the ground and upon all the fish of the sea. They are now given into your hand. Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for you. Just as I gave you the green vegetation, (Originally, as in Gen 1:29 above) I give them all to you.


Stay safe and well.

 
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Jonathan Walkerin

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Euro-American vegetarians are no more likely to be spiritual than anybody else.

Many start vegetarian or vegan diet for ethical or philosophical reasons so it probably would be fair to say there are probably more spiritual leanings among that group as well.
 
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cloudyday2

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While I appreciate everybody's responses, many people seem to be voicing a contemporary cultural opinion on vegeterianism rather than thinking about WHY religions past and present sometimes require vegetarianism. WHY do some religions think it is fine to kill and eat a carrot but not so good to kill and eat something else? There are religious ideas MOTIVATING the religious behaviors that might be interesting to explore.

My personal hypothesis is that plants are thought to have primarily a collective spirit whereas land animals are thought to have a personal spirit in addition to a collective spirit. So killing a carrot is not so bad, but outlawing the growing of carrots (as a crazy example) is a crime against the collective carrot spirit and very bad.

I have been growing some plants from seeds, and they have grown in my affection as they have also grown into bigger pots. Eventually I am going to need to do something to manage their growth - maybe even kill some of them - because I am limited in what I can provide them. That's why I have been thinking about plant spirit ideas tacitly assumed in many religions that might be clarified by exploring fasting and vegetarian practices in those religions.
 
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Rachel20

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My personal hypothesis is that plants are thought to have primarily a collective spirit whereas land animals are thought to have a personal spirit in addition to a collective spirit.

Interesting. I believe humans are body, soul, and spirit. Animals are body and soul. And plants are body only. I think plants were involved in totenism but I don't think that's considered an ancient "religion" since the totems weren't worshipped or seen as deities. I was fond of a plant once, but it was more a nostalgia because I had kept it for decades (through clippings). I was actually sad the day I disposed of it.
 
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cloudyday2

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Interesting. I believe humans are body, soul, and spirit. Animals are body and soul. And plants are body only. I think plants were involved in totenism but I don't think that's considered an ancient "religion" since the totems weren't worshipped or seen as deities. I was fond of a plant once, but it was more a nostalgia because I had kept it for decades (through clippings). I was actually sad the day I disposed of it.
How do you define body vs soul vs spirit? I assume the complexity of the brain is a big part of it?

There are creatures with simple brains like insects.

Also there is the gut biome which I have been trying to learn about recently. For example, scientists have found that transplanting the gut biome from a depressed human into a rat causes the rat to become depressed. We humans depend a lot on our gut biome.

I've also been thinking about plants that have evolved in harmony with humans. For example, humans evolve to be better able to digest certain plants, and plants evolve to be valued by humans or other life forms in various ways. There is a lot of symbiosis.

Can a person be the same person if he/she is abruptly resurrected into a perfected body to live in a perfected afterlife? People change all the time, but there is a continuity. If I go suddenly from my 5 year old self to my 50 year old self in a split second am I the same person?

Just random questions.
 
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Rachel20

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How do you define body vs soul vs spirit? I assume the complexity of the brain is a big part of it?

There are creatures with simple brains like insects.

I see the brain as merely part of the body. A cockpit instrument panel controlling everything physical, with soul as pilot. I asked the Lord once what I was, and got back John 3:6. So I view "being" and salvation in those terms - prior to born again, the soul is attached to the body and the spirit is dead. When born again, the spirit is quickened and the soul attaches to it. This isn't a ghost "in" the machine, but a ghost attached to it, the distinction being that the soul can't exist without being attached to something. The question of where the soul goes in Ecclesiastes 12:7 is then a question of to which part the soul is attached - body or spirit (for babes who haven't reached the age of accountability, the spirit hasn't died yet, and the soul is still attached to it Romans 7:9).

I've also been thinking about plants that have evolved in harmony with humans. For example, humans evolve to be better able to digest certain plants, and plants evolve to be valued by humans or other life forms in various ways. There is a lot of symbiosis.

Which requires order and consistency (laws), right? So I would think this would be a hallmark of a creation by the Biblical God.

Can a person be the same person if he/she is abruptly resurrected into a perfected body to live in a perfected afterlife? People change all the time, but there is a continuity. If I go suddenly from my 5 year old self to my 50 year old self in a split second am I the same person?

For me, "soul" isn't personality, memory, or material. My suspicion is there's an essence of soul that never changes - the you in "you". You could develop amnesia and still be this essence. Or change your appearance and still be recognizable by this essence (by those who really know you).
 
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FireDragon76

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Christianity and Judaism do not believe that either land animals or fish have spirits.

I don't think that's necessarily the case for all forms of Judaism or Christianity. Remember you are speaking for a very broad, diverse group of religions, and not something monolithic.

While I appreciate everybody's responses, many people seem to be voicing a contemporary cultural opinion on vegeterianism rather than thinking about WHY religions past and present sometimes require vegetarianism. WHY do some religions think it is fine to kill and eat a carrot but not so good to kill and eat something else? There are religious ideas MOTIVATING the religious behaviors that might be interesting to explore.

My personal hypothesis is that plants are thought to have primarily a collective spirit whereas land animals are thought to have a personal spirit in addition to a collective spirit. So killing a carrot is not so bad, but outlawing the growing of carrots (as a crazy example) is a crime against the collective carrot spirit and very bad.

I have been growing some plants from seeds, and they have grown in my affection as they have also grown into bigger pots. Eventually I am going to need to do something to manage their growth - maybe even kill some of them - because I am limited in what I can provide them. That's why I have been thinking about plant spirit ideas tacitly assumed in many religions that might be clarified by exploring fasting and vegetarian practices in those religions.

Religions like Shinto do believe plants have spirits. Even inanimate objects cane have spirits. The older something is, the more likely it is considered to be kami, or a spirit/god (there's no exact English equivalent).

That's why in some parts of Japan, before an old tree is chopped down or removed, they bring in a priest of some kind to propitiate its spirit.
 
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Sketcher

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I don't think that's necessarily the case for all forms of Judaism or Christianity. Remember you are speaking for a very broad, diverse group of religions, and not something monolithic.
Do you know of any form of orthodox Christianity or Judaism that does?
 
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Robban

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Do you know of any form of orthodox Christianity or Judaism that does?

Chassidum mean every created entity possesses a soul,
spirit is part of the soul's makeup.

Or the soul, she is called by five names,
Soul,
Spirit,
Breath,
Life,
Singularity.

The Chassidic masters explain that the soul's fives "names" actually describe five levels or dimensions of the soul.


Every blade of grass every grain of sand.
 
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Arthra

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My hypothesis is that beings have both a collective spirit and an individual spirit. The individual spirit is more pronounced in animals than in plants, so killing an individual animal is more spiritually consequential than killing an individual plant. This is why vegetarianism is often desired in religions.
In my belief there is statement that in the future humans will be more vegetarian... and part of the reason for this is that our human population will like be better able to survive on a vegetarian diet than a neat eating diet.

According to the Worldwatch Institute, “One ton of methane, the chief agricultural greenhouse gas, has the global warming potential of 23 tons of carbon dioxide. A dairy cow produces about 75 kilograms of methane a year, equivalent to over 1.5 [metric] tons of carbon dioxide.” Atmospheric concentrations of methane increased by 150% over the past 250 years due to the increase and expansion of the energy intensive agriculture of livestock production.

According to scientists at the Smithsonian Institution, “seven football fields’ worth of land is bulldozed every minute to create more room for farmed animals and the crops that feed them.” The intensification and expansion of livestock production results in deforestation, desertification, soil compaction, and erosion, and facilitates the spread of invasive animals and diseases. Deforestation itself accounts for 20% of global emission of greenhouse gases, whereas vegan diets produce the lowest GHG emissions.

4 Benefits of Going Vegan for the World—and You

Aside from my own views as a Baha'i I happen to live near Loma Linda Calif. and many of the inhabitants of Loma Linda happen to be vegetarian:

This city of 21,000 is one of the five original blue zones, regions in the world where people live longest and are the healthiest. In fact, the people in this community tend to live eight to 10 years longer than the average American.

With Longer Average Life Spans, Here’s What Loma Linda Residents Teach us About Longevity | KTLA
 
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