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Agallagher said:

Okay.

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I would like for you to carefully examine Matthew 13:41-42.

Matthew 13:41-42 says,


What is this passage saying? The Son of Man (JESUS) will send forth his angels and gather out of HIS KINGDOM all things that offend (i.e. those things that make others to sin), and them that do iniquity (those who commit sin) and they shall be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire).

So Christians who were once saved can be cast into the Lake of Fire because they later turn out to justify a sin and still be saved type gospel at a later point in their life. In other words, any believer who justifies sin is not going to make it. That is what Matthew 13:41-42 basically says. They can be in the Kingdom of our Lord and yet also not be saved because Jesus is going to send forth His angels and gather out all those in HIS Kingdom who offend and who do iniquity and they will be cast into the furnace of fire.

Most of course will not see this truth in Matthew 13:41-42. They will seek to ignore it, or change this passage to fit a belief that they know is more comforting. But I cannot change what God's Word says. It stands as it is written. Some may say that Matthew 13:41-42 is the letter that kills. But the words of Jesus (or all of Scripture) were not included in the context of 2 Corinthians 3:6. The context of 2 Corinthians 3:6 is the Old Law (Torah) (the 613 commands of the Old Testament) (Please see: 2 Corinthians 3:7).

Biltong65 said:

This goes into Law vs. Grace.

The Letter is Law (the Old Covenant), the Spirit is Grace (the New Covenant).

We are condemned according to the Law, We are saved by Grace.

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If we were to look at the context of every time Paul mentions the Law in a negative light, we would see that it is a reference to the Law of Moses (the 613 laws as a whole or package deal). Paul was not condemning the commands that come from Jesus and His followers given to us in the New Testament. Not sure if you are aware of this but it is a command or law to believe in Jesus (See: 1 John 3:23). Are we not saved by keeping this law or commandment?

But folks oversimplify the words of Paul because they want to serve two kingdoms.

Agallagher said:

I am okay, thank you.

Having access to God through faith is all one needs in their life, friend.

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So then you ignore your own Bible then?
What if you are wrong?

Agallagher said:

I am okay, thank you.

Having access to God through faith is all one needs in their life, friend.

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Can you explain to me using the Bible how Matthew 13:41-42 does not apply to believers?

Agallagher said:

Wrong about brother? @Bible Highlighter

Loving people is the goal.

Not condemning them, not hating them.

Put praying for them loving them, no matter what state of mental health, or psychical well being.

Loving even strangers, that you have no idea what they have done in their life.

Being a light to world, by the light of Jesus Christ and the spirit of Christ in you, and by the spirit of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John.

They are all really hard to understand without someone to help you with the text, we have help though, we have the spirit given by God.


I dont know what you desire from me.

To get on here and try to defend a position can only go one way, if someone is not open to accept the fact some think differently than others and have different subjective experiences when it comes to God.

You can read the bible all day, and still have no love for your fellow man.


So... I dont know what you want from me.

This is just a internet forum website that all people can release their thoughts, ideas, and opinions.

Nothing more.

We all have truth which is found in the Lord Jesus Christ. How could you be wrong?

John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

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I am for loving, praying, and doing good towards my enemies. But you confuse judgment with not being loving. John the Baptist, Jesus, Paul, and others judged. Jesus warned against how certain sins can destroy our souls with hell fire. You are basically saying they are all wrong, and you got it right. It is not unloving to judge. Again, do you think it is unloving to talk someone out of committing suicide? Is it wrong to tell them that it is wrong to commit suicide if it would save their life? Is it wrong to tell a person to not head towards a bridge that is out up ahead on a foggy morning (where they cannot see that the bridge is out)? Some may say in these cases, “Don't judge me.” But if you saved their life by warning them, how is that unloving? That's the problem with your “no judge attitude.” You equate judging with not being loving. So you must cut out many parts of the New Testament you don't like because it has a lot of judging going on. Yes, we can lead people to the Lord by our loving actions. But that does not mean that there are those who do not save others out of fear as Jude says.

Agallagher said:

Whatever you judge towards a person, someone will read what you said and judge you back.

My statement stands true.

Thank you for all your enduring responses and may you find Grace, love, peace, and mercy in your life by God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

IF you see nothing of help from me anymore, please do not respond to me anymore.

IF you feel like you need to correct me, you are not my Father, and there is no reason to correct me.

Be blessed.

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I am just trying to wrap my head around how you disregard or re-interpret all the places in the New Testament where Jesus, and His followers judge others many times. Your problem is not with me, but it is with what they are saying. I have put forth many verses forth to you explain, and you did not address them. Can you honestly say you have an answer in Scripture that explains this? Or are you just looking at only the parts of the Bible you want to see from your perspective?

I say this not to wound you, but I say this to lead you to the truth of what His Word says (in love).

Agallagher said:

I have no address any problems with any scriptures. Bible Subjectivity is a real thing. Please stop.

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Discussing the Bible is what Christians do on a Christian forum.

What do you make of Jesus saying this?

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.” (Matthew 23:23).

We are told to follow Christ as our example according to Peter:

“For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:” (1 Peter 2:21).

How do you not see the words of Jesus in Matthew 23:23 as not being judgmental?

Paul says we are to not have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but we are to reprove them in Ephesians 5:11. Paul also tells us to judge by telling us to reprove, rebuke, and exhort.

2 Timothy 4:2 says,
“Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.”

How do you not see the words of Paul here as not telling us to judge?

Side Note:

Granted, I am not saying we should just throw down judgement like Jesus did in Matthew 23:23 any time. Jesus obviously had an insight that we do not have, but I think it takes discernment by God's Spirit to know when to speak in such cases and when not speak as such. I am all for speaking in love and in being a loving example to lead others to the Lord. Love should be our focus, but there are times where we need to employ tough love in pleading for people's lives in order for them to wake up.

Agallagher said:

@Bible Highlighter Ill answer your question.

• Most of the times, when Jesus Christ is talking to the Pharisees it was because of their harden hearts.
• 
  
• They desired to do things their own ways, and by their own will.
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• Jesus Christ rebuked them 'while on earth' before dying, to let them know hey, the way you are doing things are wrong.
• 
  
• He is not rebuking anyone else but those who were against him, because they followed the way of TORAH, and Sacrifices of Animal, and DESIRED A WORLDLY KINGDOM

When it comes to Timothy.

Let me ask you this question, who is being written to at the start of 1 Timothy ?

Who is being written to who should rebuke, in 2 Timothy?

• Timothy is being wrote to. Paul is telling timothy to do those things. Not you @Bible Highlighter.

Once I started reading the bible in a contextual way, God set me up to have the ability of freedom and not to get caught up in the doctrines of men because they read and use scripture like a knife to slit throats, and cut hearts down to their own understanding level taking freedom away from them.

• Which was what PHARISEES,
• 
  
• Who Jesus christ rebuked,
• 
  
• were doing, they told them YOU MUST DO THINGS OUR WAY.

• I try not to get wrapped up into bondage of what 'Man'dates because my freedom is important to me, and so is the freedom of others.

Please understand that, I am not angry with you because of your understanding @Bible Highlighter.

Hope this helps you understand My own way of believing due to context, word sentencing, and based on the history of what you are reading when it comes to the bible.

• To me the way, that I view scripture is subjective because Not everything is written to YOU today. For YOU to do this and do THAT based off of 'MAN'dates.

Thank you for a better way of questioning me, and may you have a good day cause I need to really get off of here and get a little nap in before work.

You are my brother in Christ Jesus no matter how firmly of your ways you believe, though we may disagree with each other in our understanding.

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2 Timothy 4:2 is written to Timothy who was a Gentile believer. Paul did not make it clear that his audience for rebuking was only to the Jews only. But even if this was to the Jews only, this is still judging (Which refutes your idea that is not loving to judge).

As for your statements about Matthew 23:23. It was not wrong for the Jews at that time to follow the Torah. The New Covenant did not offiically go into effect until Christ's death. Christ had a problem with them because they were being hypocritical. They ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy (See also Luke 11:42). They did not obey. They sinned and pretended that they obeyed (When they did not obey). Many Christians today say they follow the Bible, and Jesus, but they are not really following Him in what He says. History has a way of repeating itself.

Agallagher said:

I have no address any problems with any scriptures. Bible Subjectivity is a real thing. Please stop.

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Can I ask how you understand this passage about Judging those in the Church ?

1 Corinthians 5:6-13
Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.

hope this helps !!!

Bible Highlighter said:

If we were to look at the context of every time Paul mentions the Law in a negative light, we would see that it is a reference to the Law of Moses (the 613 laws as a whole or package deal). Paul was not condemning the commands that come from Jesus and His followers given to us in the New Testament. Not sure if you are aware of this but it is a command or law to believe in Jesus (See: 1 John 3:23). Are we not saved by keeping this law or commandment?

But folks oversimplify the words of Paul because they want to serve two kingdoms.

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I have no quarrel with any of this.

Agallagher said:

Do you understand what I am saying though @Bible Highlighter ? That is the ultimate question.

But even if this was to the Jews only, this is still judging (Which refutes your idea that is not loving to judge).

What does Jesus Christ say to you about judging others?

If you judge someone they will judge you just the same back.

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Right, and if a believer is walking in the Lord righteously like they should, then there is no problem. Note: I am not referring to Sinless Perfection which is not a salvation issue. I am referring to how a believer needs to overcome grievous sin. Grievous sins are any sins that the Bible clearly condemns with hell fire or condemnation (like murder, hate, lying, adultery, theft, etc.).

So if you come up to someone who is not a believer and they say hey F*** God, what do you do about that situation?

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It depends on the believer.

Some believers do have the right to say, “The Lord rebuke you!”

For it is written:

Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” (Jude 1:9).

I would probably talk about the evidences that back up God's Word in how it is true, and talk about how God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son.

You said:

Do you respond? YOU ARE GOING TO HELL YOU SINNER !!!!!!!

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I do not agree with extremist hate messages like that of the Westboro Baptist church. But there is a proper time and place to say in love that sinners are going to hell if they do not repent and accept Jesus.

You said:

You can simply leave and go your own way, or you can change the subject and show love through actions without the need of even presueing after the subject of God until a later time.

Are you understanding yet?

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I am just not for the 1960's peace movement theology that has invaded the church these days. It is not unloving to rebuke, exhort, etc. because that is what 2 Timothy 4:2 tells us to do. Yes, we are to love as the major focus. Yes, we should follow after peace with all men, by which no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14); But Jesus also said that he came not to bring peace, but a sword. When we stand for the Bible (God's Word) we are going to make enemies. Our stance is one of silently judging them even if we do not speak a word. So one is judging regardless if they stand for what the Bible says.

Agallagher said:

2 Corinthians 3:6 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

What does the word of God, kill?

Why does the letter killeth?

What is the letter killing?

Why would the letter kill the spirit if that is the probably effect?

Have you ever noticed this verse in the text, now in Hebrews 4:12 it talks about how the bible (letter) word of God, is sharper than the sharpest two-edge sword.

Why?

Why is it that the word of God can be used, as though a an medieval solider equipped with a sword which is drawn to the neck of his enemy ready to slice the neck at any given moment?

Mishandled understanding?

Lost in translation, and teachings from others who believe they know but do not know truly what the word of God is saying?

Why does the spirit give life?

How come the spirit is the only way to gain life?

How do you live by the spirit?

Who gives the spirit?

Why do we even need the spirit?

Does the spirit transform us?

Does anyone have any answers to these questions!?

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The letter is the law, since none can keep the law they are killed by it.

The Word of God kills sin and the sinner

The letter kills because it convicts the sinner and executes the penalty

The letter kills/destroys both body and soul, (the bible context is never ending destruction in hell)

Jesus described Himself as a sword which divides families and friends into two groups, so He didn't come to bring peace but to cause the two groups to turn against each other.

God is the Spirit from whom all life comes from, so there is no other source of life in the universe. This is why we need the spirit as we are born spiritually dead in sins and trespasses.

To worship God is to live by the spirit since God Spirit indwells all true believers. God give His Holy Spirit to those who place their full trust in His Son.

We need the Spirit to protect us from Satan, without the Spirit Satan would destroy us. The Spirit does the work of transformation in the life of the believer.

Biltong65 said:

I have no quarrel with any of this.

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I am glad. Sorry I misread your post, my friend.