Why such division on this?

I think very few "protesters" care about the war or even know the issues.

I think its political. They don't like Bush because he is republican and he is Christian.

Notice the anit-Bush groups are the ones who protest almost everything (anyhow) and the pro-Bush group are the seldom heards except on election day...

I oppose the war because it is for our self-interest, many innocent people have been and will be killed or injured, and because I remember more than a few verses both in the Wisdom Books of the Old Testament and in the entire New Testament denouncing warmongers.

We are being warmongers: seeking to "preemptively" start wars with nations that are no major threat to us. (I mean, North Korea is a much bigger threat than Iraq, represses its people in the same way, but they already have nukes, so we leave them alone.)

The only people that will *profit* from this war (and all the others that are being planned out) are the people who sell weapons. Also, IIRC, I heard that there are some people in *cough*very high places*cough* investing in weapons manufacturers.

Today at 02:01 PM The Simple Plan said this in Post #1

In my travels across various forums (including this one) there seems to be a clear line of demarcation along several fronts as to who supports    or is against this war ?

Could there be a reason as to why the camps seem to be so clearly divided along country and racial groupings, and yet so many of us (no disrepect to the non-Christians here) all claim to be Christians worshipping the same God in spirit and in truth?

This almost makes the split of the reformation look tame!!!

 

 

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It is my contention that there are a multitude of factors that create the vast differences on how this war is viewed.

One is a generational factor. Some of us knew well the cost of war at a young age-having lost family members in WWII, Korea and Vietnam.

We were brought up in a time when serving your country (Christian or non-Christian) in the Armed Forces was a honorable patriotic duty.

Some of us have served in combat on foreign soil and have witnessed the utter brutality rendered to people by a dictatorship. We believed that our going to battle was just so as to free people that were being horribly oppressed. People that did not have the precious freedoms that were paid for by the blood of brave men and women commited to enabling people to be liberated from sadistic/brutal leaders.

Some of us learned at an early age that peace in this world with sociopath dictators could only be had through force. We learned that the cost of freedom in this world is not free and does not come about by engaging in endless dialogue with leaders of nations that terrorize it's own people so as to control them.

War is cruel and random death is an everyday occurence. War is the last resort to provide for a safer world and to save people that don't know the freedom people have in the United States of America.

One thing I think people forget is that Bush barely squeaked into office. About half of America didn't even vote for him.

Which is why I find it odd that some are equating "anti-Bush" with "anti-American".

Today at 01:55 PM Susan said this in Post #3

I oppose the war because it is for our self-interest, many innocent people have been and will be killed or injured, and because I remember more than a few verses both in the Wisdom Books of the Old Testament and in the entire New Testament denouncing warmongers.

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I guess that would include Sadam Hussein wouldn't it?

We are being warmongers: seeking to "preemptively" start wars with nations that are no major threat to us. (I mean, North Korea is a much bigger threat than Iraq, represses its people in the same way, but they already have nukes, so we leave them alone.)

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I'd bet North Korea is next. But seriously Susan, I don't understand how thinking that we should attack another nation who also poses a threat (and yes Iraq poses a threat) would cause one to believe that we shouldn't attack this one.

The way you jumped from a half comlete thought to a conclusion confuses me.

The only people that will *profit* from this war (and all the others that are being planned out) are the people who sell weapons. Also, IIRC, I heard that there are some people in *cough*very high places*cough* investing in weapons manufacturers.

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What does that have to do with anything?

What about the people of Iraq who will actually get the food that is being sent to them? What about the people of Iraq who have been living under an oppressive dictator who rules through fear and government controlled media as well as condones torture of political competition?

As for the rest, it's a Conspiracy theory, and whether or not you buy into that kind of tripe, it has no bearing on whether or not this war is just.

I like dealing with facts, not theories.

The reason Americans support this war so much is because we have no liberal media to present the other side of the story. Here in the United States, centerists are considered liberals and true liberals are not even considered or written off as the lunatic fringe. Right-wing neo-conservatives run the country, thier nihilism is a real threat to world stabilty and the hope for peace. Meanwhile most Americans are more worried about the price of gas than the deterioration of thier individual liberties or the long term reprecusions of such an ill concieved invasion.

Students of history who fail to understand how the Nazi party came into power should imagine America in a deep economic depresion and then look around.

I agree, Coastie, I think N. Korea is next. heh we may need not even start it.

Peace

A Cougar
I guess it's all in persepctives, except for Fox News I see the nedia as nothing but liberal, JMHO

Gunny
Well said, excellent. As I've posted here before the WW II vets had their kids grow up asking, "What did you do in the war, daddy?" and was only one generation plus before that turned into, "How did you dodge the draft, daddy?"

The Simple Plan

ah, 9-11-2001...
I'm really surprised it hadn't been mentioned yet.
Take 9-11 and couple it with some other factors, such as Clinton putting in more time and effort and money going after Bill Gates than he did Bin Laden.

Today's radio reports here in the US (and this was CNN radio) said 72% of the US is in favor og the war. That is hardly evident on the News and Current Events Board.

Umm...

The US Military is taking EXTREME caution not to hit ANY innocent people. Seriously. We could have had a lot easier time if we didn't care about the innocents.

The Iraqi resistence, however, don't even caer about their OWN people.... as far as I know.

little by little they are going to put our guys in a mindset that there are no innocent Iraqis...and truly inoocent people will be killed because of the low life stunts already pulled by them

Why? Because some people want to believe in what they want no matter what, despite historical evidence of God supporting war.

Today at 07:39 PM cenimo said this in Post #11

little by little they are going to put our guys in a mindset that there are no innocent Iraqis...and truly inoocent people will be killed because of the low life stunts already pulled by them

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It's already happened: http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/31/sprj.irq.van.shooting/index.html

Personally, I don't blame the soldiers for reacting the way they did. They are in an extremely hostile situation where death could come from anywhere. So, yes, the current Iraqi paramilitary tactics to blend into the civilian population are only going to get more civilians killed.

I'd like to see chapters and verse Susan to support your claim, along with understanding in context, before you assert that God doesn't support war.

ACougar, I find it hard to believe that you think that the entire media is a conservative-frenzy. The 3 major networks are anything but conservative, CNN is a liberals fantasy news channel, and where I live there's only 1 radio station that's conservative.

If you take a close look at the newspapers, you'll also find a majority of them are liberal.

Could it be that people are starting to catch on to the liberal diatribe and are getting tired of it? Could be...anything's possible.

God is a just God, but He is also a Righteous God. God hates evil, and I don't recall reading anything in scripture about God stating that it's okay to allow evil to stay in power, to reign, and to terrorize.

When Jesus comes back, he's not bringing a basket of flowers to give to His enemies. He's coming back to destroy His enemies. You can't do that with a daffodil.

who can judge what is right except Him? who knows the will of God entirely? who knows how He judge?

I myself do not support the war for a number of reasons...
those being.
Diplomacy has not been exausted.
I don't believe that Iraq poses any kind of threat to the U.S. Saddam has done nothing in the last 12yrs to warrant a full out invasion. (The US spends 300 billion dollars annually on defence spending, the combined defence budget of the 7 nations that pose the greatest threat to the US is only 17billion)
The U.S. is not in this war to help the Iraqi people... for one there are only vague if any plans to implement and maintain any sort of gov't after Iraq is liberated. (look what happened to Afghanistan)
The U.S. is going to war for it's own interests. Those interests namely being 3.4 trillion dollars worth of estimated Iraqi oil reserves.
War devastates (economic embargos have already resulted in the deaths of over 500 000 children under 5).
It dosen't matter what anyone says about how accurate bombs are. For one the U.S. has bombed bridges hospitals and roads water treatment areas and so on. Now without water hospitals and roads the Iraqi people in the end will not be benefitting (just think about what your town would be like without water, roads, hospitals)

To those who say the media is all Liberal, I reccomend reading up on Noam Chompsky's Manufacturing consent. If the media truly were more liberal I think we would be seeing much more balanced argument for the war. That being said does the news talk about the dead children in Iraq who died as a result of bombing, not really.  http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

The only thing that i support in this war is the fact that they may get rid of Saddam.

31st March 2003 at 04:55 PM Susan said this in Post #3
We are being warmongers: seeking to "preemptively" start wars with nations that are no major threat to us. (I mean, North Korea is a much bigger threat than Iraq, represses its people in the same way, but they already have nukes, so we leave them alone.)

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First of all, Susan, How can you say that we are starting wars with nations that are no major threat to us?  How do you know that?  Have you seen every piece of information that President Bush has seen?  Keep in mind, the US Government doesn't pass along every piece of intelligence they receive to the national public, and rightly so.  Iraq may be a bigger threat to us than we could ever imagine.  Don't jump to that conclusion so quickly, honey!!!!!!! 

North Korea may be a threat, but a bigger threat?  None of us are in any position to know that for sure.  I agree with Coastie, chances are, they are next.  And jokingly, I have to say, "Do you really wanna piece of us?" 

I stand behind my President.  I don't think there is any step in this war that he is taking that he is not sincerely seeking God's guidance first.  I trust Him to lead President Bush in the right direction, and I trust President Bush to follow His guidance. 

Am I happy that a war is taking place?  Absolutely not.  No person in this world WANTS to see a war take place.  I have several friends on the front lines who are putting their life on the line day in and day out to fight for US back home.  I'm terrified for them, but they love our country and will do whatever is necessary to protect our country.  Do I think the war is necessary?  Yeah, I do.  Do I think the war is justified?  Again, I'm in no position to make that decision, and I am glad that I am not.  Do I support my President and our troops?  ABSOLUTELY. 

I would also like to see the verses that you mentioned to back up your claims.

We don't all have to agree whether this war is "right" or not.  But one thing we can all do as American's (because it is our right - the same rights that our troops fight for continuously), as well as Christians, and that is to PRAY.  Pray for EVERYONE involved.  Lift our President up in prayer - this can't be an easy position for him.  Pray for the safety of the troops.  Pray for the safety of the innocent civilians.  Pray for Saddam Hussein.  Let's not forget - HE is dictating this war.  It never had to take place...all he had to do was walk away.

31st March 2003 at 05:51 PM Pete Harcoff said this in Post #5  Bush barely squeaked into office. About half of America didn't even vote for him. 

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Yeah, well, it's all Chad's fault. If your looking for someone to blame, then blame him. The bottom line is the election was pretty much a draw and the Supreme Court choose our president for us, and that was a close vote there. I think it was 5 to 4.

So it all came down to one supreme court justice decided who our next president was going to be. But not really, everytime they recounted the votes, Bush was always the winner by a very narrow margin. It just seemed to make Gore a little bit nuts that he lost by so close of a vote.

31st March 2003 at 04:45 PM DeputyDan said this in Post #2

I think very few "protesters" care about the war or even know the issues.

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War is a big waste, I would rather see them drop food and bibles than all of those expensive bombs. Also I am againt death. I think it is our enemy.

I personally find this "We should just go along with our leaders, because they know what's best for us," just mind boggling." And I get the sense that this is said because of the fact that Bush wears his Christianity on his sleeves and he's one of us, so he's got to be Ok. We have had plenty of Republican Presidents and I ask which of all the Presidents was not a Christian? I believe all of them were, and you probalby will have no chance if you're anything but a Christian. Trust me, when it comes to matter of politics he’s a politician first, getting the same advice from the same people as his father, he may pray for a positive outcome, but just as with any other politician, he has obligations to those who put him in the position to be the President, and 9 times out of 10 it's not the Christian thing to do. So this “they know what’s best for us ” ideal is just putting yourself right where they want you.