American Solidarity Party....

Akita Suggagaki

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2018
6,732
4,899
69
Midwest
✟279,098.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The American Solidarity Party is proud to support Brian Carroll of California and Amar Patel of Illinois as our 2020 U.S. Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidates in 2020. The Carroll/Patel ticket is committed to a [#WholeLife](Log into Facebook | Facebook) vision for America, caring for those born and [#unborn](Log into Facebook | Facebook), for [#workers](Log into Facebook | Facebook), [#widows](Log into Facebook | Facebook), [#orphans](Log into Facebook | Facebook), [#sojourners](Log into Facebook | Facebook), the [#poor](Log into Facebook | Facebook), and a better world for all of us.
 
Upvote 0

tampasteve

Pray for peace in Israel
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Angels Team
CF Senior Ambassador
Supporter
May 15, 2017
25,210
7,289
Tampa
✟768,102.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Too many liberal policies. Looks like they get some things right, but much of it is very unrealistic.
That is typical of Third parties....and political planks in general.
 
Upvote 0

Arcangl86

Newbie
Dec 29, 2013
11,076
7,405
✟343,217.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
Too many liberal policies. Looks like they get some things right, but much of it is very unrealistic.
I need to read their platform again, but I remember them being more or less the same as a Christian Democratic party like you find in many countries.
 
Upvote 0

HermanNeutics13

Regular Member
May 8, 2013
434
174
✟32,180.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Too many liberal policies. Looks like they get some things right, but much of it is very unrealistic.
That's kind of the point, if they were just like the Republicans than what would be the point in a different party?
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
That's kind of the point, if they were just like the Republicans than what would be the point in a different party?
That's true, I guess; but what do you think the party stands for if it's sorta conservative and sorta liberal?

That doesn't seem like a formula for success.
 
Upvote 0

Akita Suggagaki

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2018
6,732
4,899
69
Midwest
✟279,098.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
That's true, I guess; but what do you think the party stands for if it's sorta conservative and sorta liberal?

That doesn't seem like a formula for success.

The politics of Jesus don't fit either label.

Watch this little video of Jim Wallis.
Jim Wallis
 
Upvote 0

HermanNeutics13

Regular Member
May 8, 2013
434
174
✟32,180.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
That's true, I guess; but what do you think the party stands for if it's sorta conservative and sorta liberal?

That doesn't seem like a formula for success.
First I want to point out I don't entirely agree with everything in the party platform but we have to stop thinking of the false dichotomy we have in America. Most people actually fall outside what the Democrats and Republicans claim to represent. Which party is talking about putting an end to endless wars and actually trying to work toward achieving it (several third parties but neither of the main 2). As I understand it, the goal of the American Solidarity party is to protect life in all cases, to their philosophy is consistent. Like the libertarians are consistent in their opposition to big government whereas democrats and Republicans promote big government when it suits them and oppose ti when it doesn't.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
First I want to point out I don't entirely agree with everything in the party platform but we have to stop thinking of the false dichotomy we have in America.
That's fair.

Most people actually fall outside what the Democrats and Republicans claim to represent.
Probably so.

Which party is talking about putting an end to endless wars and actually trying to work toward achieving it (several third parties but neither of the main
Republican, but I can appreciate that they are suspect.

As I understand it, the goal of the American Solidarity party is to protect life in all cases, to their philosophy is consistent. Like the libertarians are consistent in their opposition to big government whereas democrats and Republicans promote big government when it suits them and oppose ti when it doesn't.
Yes, but I think it's not that simple. Of all the third parties, this one seems the most unfocused and looking like it's picking and choosing issues. That sounds admirable at first glance but may indicate that it has no consistent approach to national issues.

However, the point I was more interested in making was that the ASP barely exists and is on hardly any state ballots, so if we throw in the fact that it also has no natural constituency, getting behind it may a waste of time. Are there no alternatives for people thinking of the ASP?
 
Upvote 0

JSRG

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2019
1,400
786
Midwest
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
That's true, I guess; but what do you think the party stands for if it's sorta conservative and sorta liberal?

That doesn't seem like a formula for success.
Actually, it absolutely does.

If you're a fully conservative party there's little appeal to those other than Republican voters, and if you're a fully liberal party there's little appeal to those other than Democratic voters. That just creates the vote-splitting problem that plagues our plurality voting system (hopefully Ranked Choice Instant Runoff Voting gets implemented in more places to help solve that problem, though) and makes it hard to compete with the two major parties. You need something that can manage to get votes from people who vote for Republicans and people who vote for Democrats. I don't think it's a coincidence that the most successful third party in the US, the Libertarian Party, is one that is "sorta conservative and sorta liberal."

Beyond that, look at this very informative graph of the 2016 electorate and how they voted:

figure2_drutman_73d3873f90a694512aeeb56e0ab92cfa.png


Do you see how many fall into the socially conservative, fiscally liberal corner? Lots! (in case you're wondering, the image is from here) And that's exactly where the American Solidarity Party is. To say that it doesn't seem like a formula for success to have political positions that align well with such a large portion of the population seems to be in error to me.
However, the point I was more interested in making was that the ASP barely exists and is on hardly any state ballots, so if we throw in the fact that it also has no natural constituency, getting behind it may a waste of time. Are there no alternatives for people thinking of the ASP?
COVID really hurt the ballot access attempt, as most states require signatures to get on the ballot and COVID makes signature gathering a lot harder. Though it should be noted that there are a number of states where, while not on the ballot, Brian Carroll is a certified write-in (i.e. it's a write-on option that can actually be counted).

As for the claim of no natural constituency, see above.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Actually, it absolutely does.
There's no point in arguing the point to death, but it's only the voter who fits the 50-50 profile of such a political party perfectly who would be likely to join. Meanwhile, it leaves the party itself to have to explain what matters on the conservative end of things, and what matters on the liberal side of things, and also what is consistent about that. (?)

No matter how one praises this kind of a political party for being pragmatic or moderate, etc. it is a 'harder sell' than the other minor parties face.

If you're a fully conservative party there's little appeal for those other than Republican voters, and if you're a fully liberal party there's little appeal to those other than Democratic voters.
With minor parties, though (and that's what we are dealing with here), there is almost no inducement to switch away from one of the major parties, neither of which is unswerving liberal or conservative, in order to support a minor party that offers the same kind of inconsistency as the Rs and Ds.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the most successful third party in the US, the Libertarian Party, is one that is "sorta conservative and sorta liberal."
Well, the Libertarian Party IS sorta conservative and sorta liberal, if truth be told. And it's been around now for almost 50 years and usually gets 2 or 3% in national elections. So I wouldn't call that a smashing success.

We may also look at other third parties of the past--Dixiecrats, Progressives, Reform, etc.--and we see that they had a measure of success AND that they were essentially one-issue parties.
 
Upvote 0

JSRG

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2019
1,400
786
Midwest
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
There's no point in arguing the point to death, but it's only the voter who fits the 50-50 profile of such a political party perfectly who would be likely to join.
Except "only the voter who fits the 50-50 profile of such a political party" constitutes a large portion of the population, as was demonstrated. The problem the American Solidarity Party faces right now, and hopefully will be changed over time, is that it's not very well-known (which makes some sense given how new it is) so it isn't able to really tap into that portion of the population at present.

Meanwhile, it leaves the party itself to have to explain what matters on the conservative end of things, and what matters on the liberal side of things, and also what is consistent about that. (?)
"Socially conservative, fiscally liberal." Not exactly a difficult explanation. Granted, that is an oversimplification, but it does describe about 90-95% of its positions pretty well.

Well, the Libertarian Party IS sorta conservative and sorta liberal, if truth be told. And it's been around now for almost 50 years and usually gets 2 or 3% in national elections. So I wouldn't call that a smashing success.
Compared to every other third party since the Reform Party, the Libertarian Party is a smashing success. And even the Reform Party wasn't really a party so much as a vehicle for Ross Perot, and ceased relevance about as soon as he did. So the most successful third party, by a notable margin, is the one that is "sorta conservative and sorta liberal". The Green Party and Constitution Party, in contrast, are pretty thoroughly liberal and thoroughly conservative, and don't do anywhere near as well.

However, the Libertarian Party faces an issue that the American Solidarity Party doesn't: A relatively low ceiling of support. Look back at that chart I posted. The lower-right quadrant, which is where the Libertarian Party, is by far the least-occupied quadrant. So while the Libertarian Party serves that quadrant (which is not served by Democrats or Republicans), the low population of it is a major part of what keeps the Libertarian Party small.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Except "only the voter who fits the 50-50 profile of such a political party" constitutes a large portion of the population, as was demonstrated.
Sure, but most of them by far already have a political party and it's not this tiny new one. How to lure them away from either the Republicans or the Democrats is not as easy as saying "We're here and we stand for some of what you like, but not all of it."

How many voters are going to be fired up about that appeal to leave the party they currently support??

Compared to every other third party since the Reform Party, the Libertarian Party is a smashing success.
2 or 3% of the vote is not smashing success, no matter which other party is compared to it.

The most encouraging (if that's the right word) part of your analysis is that you are comparing what you think the American Solidarity Party could possibly develop into in the future against the real experiences of other third parties, both from the left and the right, who found out that it isn't that easy.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JSRG

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2019
1,400
786
Midwest
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Sure, but most of them by far already have a political party and it's not this tiny new one. How to lure them away from either the Republicans or the Democrats is not as easy as saying "We're here and we stand for some of what you like, but not all of it."
Well, duh. The message is "We're here and we stand for a lot more of what you like than the Democrats and Republicans do."

How many voters are going to be fired up about that appeal to leave the party they currently support??
Because the new party is in greater agreement with them? There's a lot of people who are socially conservative but fiscally liberal. Such people would be in much more agreement with the American Solidarity Party than either the Republican or Democratic Parties.

2 or 3% of the vote is not smashing success, no matter which other party is compared to it.

The most encouraging (if that's the right word) part of your analysis is that you are comparing what you think the American Solidarity Party could possibly develop into in the future against the real experiences of other third parties, both from the left and the right, who found out that it isn't that easy.
Let's look at the "major" third parties right now aside from the ASP.

Libertarian Party: Has the problem that libertarianism, at least of the fiscally conservative, socially liberal variety ultimately isn't all that popular.

Green Party: Their positions are, by and large, either that of the Democrats or more extreme versions of the positions of the Democrats. Thus it has the problem that it would appeal disproportionately to would-be Democratic voters, resulting in the problem of "vote splitting."

Constitution Party: Same problem as the Green Party, but with the Republicans.

The ASP has a platform that appeals to a large part of the population and does not seem to take voters substantially more from one party than the other. This is a fact I cannot think of another third party in recent history being true for--maybe the Reform Party, but that was just Ross Perot: The Party, so without Ross Perot it kind of shriveled up.
 
Upvote 0

HermanNeutics13

Regular Member
May 8, 2013
434
174
✟32,180.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
That's fair.


Probably so.


Republican, but I can appreciate that they are suspect.


Yes, but I think it's not that simple. Of all the third parties, this one seems the most unfocused and looking like it's picking and choosing issues. That sounds admirable at first glance but may indicate that it has no consistent approach to national issues.

However, the point I was more interested in making was that the ASP barely exists and is on hardly any state ballots, so if we throw in the fact that it also has no natural constituency, getting behind it may a waste of time. Are there no alternatives for people thinking of the ASP?


It does have a natural constituency. It is supposed to be based on Catholic social teaching and other countries have comparable parties to it that are competitive in elections. Our issues is that we have been conditioned by the 2 major parties. The lack of ballot access is a legitimate concern.
As for the appeal of third parties in general,recent polls by Gallup indicate that there are more independent voters than there are dedicated members of either major party. Now most of them will either compromise and vote for one of the big 2 or just not vote at all (which happens quite often). If we had a system like ranked choice voting or didn't have the 2 major parties being the one to control the rules as they are now, people would start to support 3rd parties mote.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Arcangl86

Newbie
Dec 29, 2013
11,076
7,405
✟343,217.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
"Third" parties are such a tragedy in our 2 party system.

I would love to change the system so they are viable and not effectively a spoiler vote that advances the exact opposite of what you prefer.
IDK about that. The UK and Canada both have first-past-the-post and have viable third parties, though they are smaller then the two "main" parties. Our presidential system won't work that way it's true, having a more diverse Congress might help reign in executive power.
 
Upvote 0