Prayers of the saints?

Unofficial Reverand Alex

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Could it be like in Like 16?

"“There was a rich man who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day. And lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man’s table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores. When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, and from the netherworld,where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames.’ Abraham replied, ‘My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here, whereas you are tormented. Moreover, between us and you a great chasm is established to prevent anyone from crossing who might wish to go from our side to yours or from your side to ours.’ He said, ‘Then I beg you, father, send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they too come to this place of torment.’ But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’ He said, ‘Oh no, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ Then Abraham said, ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.’”
Jesus used the prayers of a man in the next life as part of His story; after death, we can call out to God & other saints (such as the depicted St. Abraham) on behalf of ourselves & our family. To say anything less would be to doubt Jesus' own words in the story!

I'll let someone else handle the Revelation verse, but I recently heard that point on the rich man & Lazarus a few months ago, and I really like sharing that as a cool part of the story that gets overlooked.
 
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Unofficial Reverand Alex

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It's the prayers of believers on earth who are under persecution.
Interesting. How can you tell it's from the believers on Earth? Or could they be the prayers of those who have already gone, such as Jesus depicts the rich man as doing?
 
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Pavel Mosko

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It's the prayers of believers on earth who are under persecution.

If you look at the text, it actually speaks about them being martyred for their Faith.... That is why they are crying out for justice etc.

Revelation 6

9 And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld.

10 And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?”
 
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sawdust

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Interesting. How can you tell it's from the believers on Earth? Or could they be the prayers of those who have already gone, such as Jesus depicts the rich man as doing?

The rich man never prayed to God and Jesus stated what he did do would be ignored anyway as he should have listened to Moses and the Prophets while he was still alive. There are no appeal courts after death. Like many of the Pharisees we encounter in the N.T. he thought being a descendent of Abraham was sufficient.

Matt.3:9
And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.
 
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sawdust

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If you look at the text, it actually speaks about them being martyred for their Faith.... That is why they are crying out for justice etc.

Revelation 6

9 And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld.

10 And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?”

The reason I believe it is prayers of those on Earth is because incense is symbolic in two ways.
1. it is sweet smelling and acceptable
2. the smoke rises up to a higher level.

While it may well contain the prayers of those who have already died, the term is fairly generic in that it simply says "holy ones" which, is variously translated as saints or God's people. As those of us on Earth are in far greater need of prayer, it seems logical to me that the bowls contain those prayers that have risen to the Lord's ear and have found acceptance in His hearing.

I'm not sure if the passage on the fifth seal can be aligned with the Rev.5 passage as there is no mention of golden bowls.

We can be sure of one thing though and that it is the prayers of believers. :)
 
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Paul4JC

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Saints is used many times in the Bible to refer to the believers. the root word is sacred or holy.

Act 9:32
Act 9:41
Act 26:10
Rom 8:27
Rom 12:13
Rom 15:25
Rom 15:26
Rom 15:31
Rom 16:2
Rom 16:15
1Co 6:1
1Co 6:2
1Co 14:33
1Co 16:1
1Co 16:15
2Co 1:1
2Co 8:4
2Co 9:1
2Co 9:12
2Co 13:13
Eph 1:1
Eph 1:15
Eph 1:18
Eph 2:19
Eph 3:18
Eph 4:12
Eph 6:18
Phl 1:1
Phl 4:22
Col 1:2
Col 1:4
Col 1:12
1Ti 5:10
Phm 1:5
Phm 1:7
Heb 6:10
Heb 13:24

Also we are the royal priesthood.

[1Pe 2:9 NASB] 9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR [God's] OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
 
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Aussie Pete

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What saints?

Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
All who are born again are saints. Our prayers are heard in heaven and are precious to God. If we realised just how much God appreciates them, we would pray more.
 
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Paul4JC

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how do you become “born again”?
[Jhn 1:12-13 NIV] 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

[Jhn 3:3 NIV] 3 Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

[1Pe 1:23 NIV] 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

[1Jo 5:1 ESV] 1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
 
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sawdust

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You did not answer?

You did not read.

[Jhn 1:12-13 NIV] 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
 
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b4jesustoday

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How yo be born again!

Baptism!


Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


Matt 28:19 ( Disciples by baptism not faith alone)


Mk 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.


Mark 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)


John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)


John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)


John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)


John 4:4 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.(Baptism)


Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?


37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.


Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


Romans 6:3

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?


1 Corinthians 12:13

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


Galatians 3:27

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.


Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptism)


1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)

(Outside the ark and the church there is no salvation!)
 
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sawdust

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Salvation is the entry into the Church, that is the Body of Christ. You cannot become a part of Christ's body and then get saved. You have things back to front.

Baptism is necessary but it is Christ's baptism that saves, not John's.

Matt.3:11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

The "one baptism" referred to in Ephesians 4:5 is the baptism of the Spirit.

The problem is most people see the word "baptism" and immediately think water. If people read those verses translating baptize/baptism with the word submerged (as that is the essential meaning of the word), then it takes on a whole new understanding.
 
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JulieB67

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Pete how do you become “born again”?

I'm not answering for Pete, but being "born again" means to be born from above.

John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

The Greek word for "again" is -anothen which means "from above, from the beginning. It has nothing to do with the water baptism you're talking about.

Sometimes you have to take it back because many words get lost in translation. This being one of the more important ones to take back to get the deeper meaning and understanding.
 
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