Credit Trump?

JohnDB said:

Considering Trump's length of service in the world of politics...(3½ years)
He apparently is to be blamed for all the ills in the world.

But not Pelosi, Biden, Harris, or Schumer....who all have spent decades as politicians.

I'm not really sure of the logic in this.

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I’m not really sure of the logic of starting a thread built on nothing but a vague strawman fallacy.

JohnDB said:

Strawman argument?

It's fairly well accurate that Trump has only held office for 3½ years verses the career Politicians who are denigrating him with foam coming out of their mouths...

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And yet he is not blamed for all the ills of the world -- your attempt to paint him as a martyr/victim isn't particularly convincing.

JohnDB said:

Not a victim or a martyr.
LOL
Just really effective at getting the left foaming at the mouth.

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And why would you blame him for that?

JohnDB said:

Not a victim or a martyr.
LOL
Just really effective at getting the left foaming at the mouth.

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You’ve gored your own bull!
Well done!

JohnDB said:

He has kept most of his campaign promises (except for the golf) during his tenure as if he considered them as mandates from a board of directors.

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Really? How much has Mexico paid for his wall? Which was supposed to be 500 miles of impenetrable protection. But so far, is just over 100 miles. And much of that is revision of existing physical barrier. And is being funded by diverting money from our military. (Not to mention that a support column was cut through by a commonly available cordless reciprocating saw.)

And what about his promised health insurance program? Which would replace ACA and be far better? Now 3 1/2 years in, and neither he, nor his Republican lackeys have offered the faintest hint of a coherent plan. His other accomplishments? The personal tax cut will expire in 2025. His SCOTUS justices have so far been not nearly as conservative as was anticipated. Everything else he's done is largely by executive order. Most, if not all of which will probably all be rescinded when Joe Biden takes office next Jan.

It must also be noted that if ever there was a pathological liar, Trump is in 1st place. Over 20,000 false or misleading tweets and statements so far.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...e-more-than-20000-false-or-misleading-claims/

By virtue of his malignant narcissism, regressive politics, and gargantuan ineptness, Pres. Trump has made himself the most most hated man in the country. Abe Lincoln said we cannot escape history. It's as sure as the day follows the night that history will place Donald Trump along with James Buchanan, and Millard Fillmore in the race to the very bottom of Presidential failures.

jayem said:

It's as sure as the day follows the night that history will place Donald Trump along with James Buchanan, and Millard Fillmore in the race to the very bottom of Presidential failures.

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My money is on Trump!

JohnDB said:

Oh come on...you are a totally entrenched party line Democrat.
LOL
I was a fan of that little old lady who refused to sell her retirement beach house to Donald and that was what resulted in his bankruptcy. (Amongst a lot of other things)

I knew that he would bounce back...he isn't a propped up guy.
I'm definitely not a fan of his personal morals.
And when he got busted for all the illegal aliens working in his hotel... again I was applauding the agents who busted him for it.

The man is far from perfect...has a lot of moral failings. Not exactly a hero type. He has been described as a woman hater...lol...I think he likes too many of them IMHO.

And in the OP I listed career politicians who have been in office for decades... people who should know how to get things done in Government...they have certainly been there long enough to know how.

The comparison is valid.

You obviously have an agenda.

I'm just saying that for a non-political person he sure has stirred things up and caused everyone to foam at the mouth to become unintelligible.

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Well, try to appreciate that I'm looking at this from an outsiders perspective.

It would appear from your reply that the breaking of accords, long-established and evolved by both political parties. was a positive thing.
All the trade agreements reversed and tariffs slapped on your allies
The geopolitical alliances cancelled.

Even the more humanity based accords such as WHO and Human Rights Council disbanded.

I don't understand the USA for wanting to trash alliances and break away from humanity based accords.

I shall give you the Australian perspective (recent one because I'm a teen). When Bush came to Australia and promoted an attack on the people of Iran, he did so by telling our parliament the US had irrefutable evidence that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. We accepted his word and went to war because (like the Vietnam War) the US invoked our ANZUS treaty. Then we found that not only was WMD untrue, it was concocted - you'll appreciate that having lost Australian lives there, US credibility plummeted - we were not happy.

Obama (regardless of your domestic view of him) did restore some confidence.

Since Trump came to power, one of his first steps was to threaten all allies with tariffs - including Australia. He pulled out of the Paris agreement and disappeared from the Trans-Pacific agreements - all within the first year. China filled that void very quickly, both in terms as a trading partner, and geopolitically.

So, put on your independent thinking hat. If you were in Australia, how would you regard the US right now.

He has succeeded in bringing the Democratic Party together in absolute determination to save our democracy.
He has succeeded in exposing the hypocrisy of the evangelical movement and the complete lack if character of his legislative accomplices.

JohnDB said:

And I would tend to agree with a lot of this...but not exactly with the same motivations... similar but not the same. He does what he thinks that he can legitimately and legally get away with to further his goals regardless of the fallout of those who speak ill of him. And usually has an "in your face monkey_____" comment to go with it to further infuriate his opponents. (Not statesman like in any fashion)

But for some reason he has taken this job seriously and with some respect.
Which has been a pleasant surprise in his conduct during the presidencey. He has kept most of his campaign promises (except for the golf) during his tenure as if he considered them as mandates from a board of directors. No other president has done that...oh they may get one or two accomplished but the laundry list of the first term becomes the promised goal of the second term... usually with more platitudes about "if Congress...." But no real results.
And that summary can legitimately characterize the last four Presidents we've had except for Trump.

I guess that my personal feelings about someone are separate from judging the job they have done. Which is what we need more of. I don't want a beer buddy in the WH...I need someone to do what's best for us. (Even if I would count the silverware after he was gone...Bill and Hillary coming to mind)

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On what planet has he kept most of his campaign promises?

He promised to "repeal and replace Obamacare". On day 1 (no one was expecting it "on day 1" but he did explicitly claim that he had a plan that he was going to reveal it after installing his cabinet). We're 3.5 years in, and he hasn't even put forth a draft of his plan.

He promised to "build a wall" and that "Mexico would pay for it". His wall hasn't been built, and what fragment of it has been built was paid for by US tax dollars.

He promised to "drain the swamp". There's more corruption in this administration than there has been previously. The swamp is deeper and murkier than ever before.

At least you already admitted that his claim "i wouldn't leave the White House. I wouldn't have time to play golf" was blatantly false.

whatbogsends said:

On what planet has he kept most of his campaign promises?

He promised to "repeal and replace Obamacare". On day 1 (no one was expecting it "on day 1" but he did explicitly claim that he had a plan that he was going to reveal it after installing his cabinet). We're 3.5 years in, and he hasn't even put forth a draft of his plan.

He promised to "build a wall" and that "Mexico would pay for it". His wall hasn't been built, and what fragment of it has been built was paid for by US tax dollars.

He promised to "drain the swamp". There's more corruption in this administration than there has been previously. The swamp is deeper and murkier than ever before.

At least you already admitted that his claim "i wouldn't leave the White House. I wouldn't have time to play golf" was blatantly false.

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I'm going to go ahead and remind everyone that it was not even a few weeks ago he promised this in the Chris Wallace interview. Said within 2 weeks. 4 at most given a generous interpretation. Big healthcare plan. What have we got? NOTHING. Congress is in recess so we know dang sure nothing is passing anytime soon either.

So on this promise alone Trumpers, you tell me... is he so mind boggling naive at how healthcare bills work or did he just blatantly lie with ease about a massive, important subject critical to so many Americans? Don't you dare blame the Democrats either because. You can't say "They wouldn't pass our plan!" because there isn't even a plan or draft! Years to work on it, NOTHING. Despicable and deplorable.

whatbogsends said:

He promised to "repeal and replace Obamacare". On day 1 (no one was expecting it "on day 1" but he did explicitly claim that he had a plan that he was going to reveal it after installing his cabinet). We're 3.5 years in, and he hasn't even put forth a draft of his plan.

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And he lost the Congressional majority that would have made that an easy fix, well, if he actually had a plan.

“Credit Trump” sounds like a shady European bank that launders the money of Drug lords.

Skewpoint said:

I'm going to go ahead and remind everyone that it was not even a few weeks ago he promised this in the Chris Wallace interview. Said within 2 weeks. 4 at most given a generous interpretation. Big healthcare plan. What have we got? NOTHING. Congress is in recess so we know dang sure nothing is passing anytime soon either.

So on this promise alone Trumpers, you tell me... is he so mind boggling naive at how healthcare bills work or did he just blatantly lie with ease about a massive, important subject critical to so many Americans? Don't you dare blame the Democrats either because. You can't say "They wouldn't pass our plan!" because there isn't even a plan or draft! Years to work on it, NOTHING. Despicable and deplorable.

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I'm going to remind people that not only has he lied about it recently, that he made concrete lies about this promise starting before he was elected. This series of concrete lies was from Jan 11, 2017:

Trump starts off with the usual "We need to repeal and replace Obamacare", but 26 seconds in, he starts talking about "submitting a plan - repeal and replace"," essentially simultaneously." "Maybe same day, same week, same hour." at 1:00 "we're gonna get a health bill passed, we're gonna get health care taken care of in this country." at 1:46 he again talks about getting a plan submitted once his secretary is approved - "and the plan will be repeal and replace".

whatbogsends said:

I'm going to remind people that not only has he lied about it recently, that he made concrete lies about this promise starting before he was elected. This series of concrete lies was from Jan 11, 2017:

Trump starts off with the usual "We need to repeal and replace Obamacare", but 26 seconds in, he starts talking about "submitting a plan - repeal and replace"," essentially simultaneously." "Maybe same day, same week, same hour." at 1:00 "we're gonna get a health bill passed, we're gonna get health care taken care of in this country." at 1:46 he again talks about getting a plan submitted once his secretary is approved - "and the plan will be repeal and replace".

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And it was a good plan, the best plan, a better plan by far that the flawed Romneycare ummmmm, Obamacare that Obama forced on us. People are still talking about how great the plan is and how it has helped them through the hard times. Nothing but good things about that plan, for sure.

Aryeh Jay said:

And it was a good plan, the best plan, a better plan by far that the flawed Romneycare ummmmm, Obamacare that Obama forced on us. People are still talking about how great the plan is and how it has helped them through the hard times. Nothing but good things about that plan, for sure.

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