The [future] events of Revelation: sequential or in parallel?

Not sure if parallel says it rightly the book of Revelation discusses what happens to the Sheep and the goats, many chapters runs concurrently with each other i believe.

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Mostly in sequence with chapters that describe what has happened/will happen, as the action moves forward.

#1. 7 Seals have to be opened to unroll the scroll-where the trumpets and bowls are, and they are numbered. No one would of tried to open a seven sealed scroll back in the day until every seal was cracked.

#2. Things go from bad to worse. This is true in the seals, trumpets, and bowls. The progressive nature of things happening confirm they are in sequence.

#3. Failure to understand the above points, and not believing in interpreting the Bible in a normal literal way- while leaving room for figures of speech and so forth, believing the book of Revelation has no predictive prophecy as well as not believing the book of Daniel and Olivet Discource of Jesus is the key to understanding Revelation, has produced many different view points, some denying the Lord will come back at all.

It's up to us to rightly divide the word of truth and all boils down to do we believe what Jesus said and taught, or what our particular denomination teaches about the subject?

23“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. 24“For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25“Behold, I have told you in advance. 26“So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. 27“For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28“Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

3Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.

16“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

17The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.

18I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ given to John. John first tells the churches,

Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, A-men.

So Christ right there in his testimony is telling us when he does return "every eye" shall see him.

3 verses later,

Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"

He was taken to the spirit on the Lord's Day. So right there we know we're in the future. He just heard that last trump.

He is told to write in 19,


Revelation 1:19 "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;"

So we will be dealing with all what he saw ( the Candlesticks, etc) the things that are/ present (he's presently in the Lord's Day) and the future -after the Lord's Day. (New Heaven and Earth, etc

It's not completely in chronological order. The seals themselves cover everything that is going to happen up to God's wrath. First seal dealing with a rider on a white horse that is not Christ. His bow is made of the simplest fabric (toxon in the Greek) and one crown and is setting out to conquer. When the true Christ returns he will have many crowns and be bringing the saints that have passed on with him. (Rev 19)

Chapter 12 includes past and future (Satan and his have not been kicked out yet to deceive the nations, etc)

And in the later chapters we are dealing with after Christ's return.

But in dealing with end time prophecy, Christ lays out everything in the gospels in a simplicity that is easy to understand and Paul is a second witness in his teachings about the "day of the Lord."

Olmhinlu said:

For those of you who believe that the book of Revelation describes future events: do you believe that it can be read mostly in order, or do you believe that there are different parallel visions that describe events that would overlap on a timeline?

Why do you think the way you do and, in the parallel case, how do you break it up, and what does your timeline look like?

Click to expand...

Here is my timeline chart of the 7 year 70th week. But I know that is not really what you are asking for. For Revelation only , I will have to try and make another chart in block and outline form (I may be forced to change my approach once I get into it). Could take a while.

JulieB67 said:

This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ given to John. John first tells the churches,

Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of [mourn over] Him. Even so, A-men.

So Christ right there in his testimony is telling us when he does return "every eye" shall see him.

3 verses later,

Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"

He was taken to the spirit on the Lord's Day. So right there we know we're in the future. He just heard that last trump.

He is told to write in 19,


Revelation 1:19 "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;"

So we will be dealing with all what he saw ( the Candlesticks, etc) the things that are/ present (he's presently in the Lord's Day) and the the future -after the Lord's Day. (New Heaven and Earth, etc)

Revelation is not completely in chronological order. The seals themselves cover everything that is going to happen up to God's wrath.

Revelation 12 includes past and future (Satan and his have not been kicked out yet to deceive the nations, etc)

And in the later chapters we are dealing with after Christ's return.

But in dealing with end time prophecy, Christ lays out everything in the gospels in a simplicity that is easy to understand and Paul is a second witness in his teachings about the "day of the Lord."

Click to expand...

Nice post! That Jesus says the book is "prophecy" shows that the majority is future. Jesus is simply adding more information that has all ready been revealed in the Olivet Discourse. A lot about the 3.5 year period of time before He returns, the beast empire and man-that Daniel and Paul speaks of.

A lot about the day of the Lord judgments (trumpets and bowls)-which happens in between Mat 24 & 25. Both phases ( a start and an end) of the coming (parousia) are there too-if you read it carefully, and both words are used. If we do not see a two phase parousia, we will never reconcile the seemingly contradictory statements in the Bible.

Not two different comings, but one unified whole with a rescue event at the start, judgment while God is active and present in the earth-that everyone knows is from God (at the signs of the sixth seal Rev 6), and then Jesus taking possession of the earth as the ending event-never to leave. (Rev 19-20)

The same example could be used of Jesus' first parousia, He was born, He grew, He started His ministry, He died on the cross, was burried, and rose agian the third day, according to the Scriptures, and then He ascended up to Heaven and we await His return. All part of one unified whole where He accomplished everything He set out to do.

Running2win said:

Nice post! That Jesus says the book is "prophecy" shows that the majority is future. Jesus is simply adding more information that has all ready been revealed in the Olivet Discourse

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Thanks and yes, I agree with this.

Douggg said:

Here is my timeline chart of the 7 year 70th week. But I know that is not really what you are asking for. For Revelation only , I will have to try and make another chart in block and outline form (I may forced to change my approach once I get into it). Could take a while.





View attachment 282225

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You sure have some neat charts Douggg! Of course I don't agree with all of it-cause we will all never agree this side of eternity, but I believe your heart is in the right place and agree with your literal interpretation of the Scriptures.

Olmhinlu said:

For those of you who believe that the book of Revelation describes future events: do you believe that it can be read mostly in order, or do you believe that there are different parallel visions that describe events that would overlap on a timeline?

Why do you think the way you do and, in the parallel case, how do you break it up, and what does your timeline look like?

Click to expand...

The book of Revelation gives a "recap" (review) of significant events that have already happened .... and then moves into what will happen in the future. It's like a very highly condensed version of the story of mankind .... culminating until the very end.

In the book of Daniel ... the prophecy revealed in Nebuchadnezzars dream .... depicts the rise and fall of many great nations .... with the last being that of papal Rome (mixture of iron and clay) - (wounded but not completely eliminated) all these nations have come and gone just as prophesied. (also verifiable according to documented history) (see attached)

Because in the dream .... when the feet of the image is completely destroyed .... this represents the final end .... which of course hasn't happened yet.

All prophecies related to time (nations rising & falling) have been fulfilled .... We are now looking for signs and events to happen (not on a timeline) ... and can happen at any time (ie they (events) are not related to any biblical timeframe)

eleos1954 said:

The book of Revelation gives a "recap" (review) of significant events that have already happened .... and then moves into what will happen in the future. It's like a very highly condensed version of the story of mankind .... culminating until the very end.

In the book of Daniel ... the prophecy revealed in Nebuchadnezzars dream .... depicts the rise and fall of many great nations .... with the last being that of papal Rome (mixture of iron and clay) - (wounded but not completely eliminated) all these nations have come and gone just as prophesied. (also verifiable according to documented history) (see attached)

Because in the dream .... when the feet of the image is completely destroyed .... this represents the final end .... which of course hasn't happened yet.

All prophecies related to time (nations rising & falling) have been fulfilled .... We are now looking for signs and events to happen (not on a timeline) ... and can happen at any time (ie they (events) are not related to any biblical timeframe)

View attachment 282230

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The last 10 nation kingdom is Arab. God tells us if we dig a little deeper. Arabs are the "mixed" people. The Arabs are Muslim and Islam is the religion of Ishmael, the wild man.

43“And in that you saw the iron mixed with common clay, they will combine with one another in the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, even as iron does not combine with pottery.

Bible > Strong's > Hebrew > 6151
◄ 6151. arab ►
Strong's Concordance
arab: to mix
Original Word: עֲרַב
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: arab
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-ab')
Definition: to mix
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
(Aramaic) corresponding to the root of ereb
Definition
to mix
NASB Translation
combine (2), mixed (2).


Brown-Driver-Briggs
[עֲרַב] verb mix (ᵑ7 (often); Syriac (rare); see Biblical Hebrew I. ערב); —
Pa`el Passive participle מְעָרַב mixed with (ב) Daniel 2:41,43.

Hithpa. Participle id.: מִתְעָרַב Daniel 2:43 (עִם), plural רֲבִין- Daniel 2:43 (ב).


Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
mingle self, mix
(Aramaic) corresponding to arab; to commingle -- mingle (self), mix.

see HEBREW arab

Running2win said:

The last 10 nation kingdom is Arab. God tells us if we dig a little deeper. Arabs are the "mixed" people. The Arabs are Muslim and Islam is the religion of Ishmael, the wild man.

43“And in that you saw the iron mixed with common clay, they will combine with one another in the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, even as iron does not combine with pottery.

Bible > Strong's > Hebrew > 6151
◄ 6151. arab ►
Strong's Concordance
arab: to mix
Original Word: עֲרַב
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: arab
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-ab')
Definition: to mix
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
(Aramaic) corresponding to the root of ereb
Definition
to mix
NASB Translation
combine (2), mixed (2).


Brown-Driver-Briggs
[עֲרַב] verb mix (ᵑ7 (often); Syriac (rare); see Biblical Hebrew I. ערב); —
Pa`el Passive participle מְעָרַב mixed with (ב) Daniel 2:41,43.

Hithpa. Participle id.: מִתְעָרַב Daniel 2:43 (עִם), plural רֲבִין- Daniel 2:43 (ב).


Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
mingle self, mix
(Aramaic) corresponding to arab; to commingle -- mingle (self), mix.

see HEBREW arab

Click to expand...

I would disagree .... the golden image predicts the rise and fall of kingdoms .... with the last of the dream being destruction of the feet (mixture of iron & clay) (destroyed) .... therefore the last ruling kingdom is still in place .... not ruling the entire world (yet) .... but is not totally destroyed as of yet either (it's wound is healed).

IF ... as you say .... Arabs .... what is the wound that is/was healed? What does the iron and clay represent?

43“And in that you saw the iron mixed with common clay, they will combine with one another in the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, even as iron does not combine with pottery.

Click to expand...

Many times throughout history Europe has attempted to unite .... the 10 nations (Daniel 10 horns) that were formed that are now the European ... outside of this there will be no more uniting of the nations (will not cleve to one another)

The 10 nations are members of both NATO and the European Union. What bound them together was a mutual defense obligation under Article Five of the modified Brussels Treaty, which meant that an attack against one would be an attack against all.

On March 31, 2010, the 10 nations announced that they had agreed to terminate their alliance and transfer the Western European Union’s powers to the European Union — which, under the Lisbon Treaty, has developed a mutual defense obligation that includes all the EU member states.

The 10 nations that made up the alliance were: Belgium, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, United Kingdom

Unlike the first three kingdoms, whose metals cease with their demise, the iron of the fourth kingdom remains until the end of the world, even if in the feet and toes the iron is mixed with “miry clay” (Dan. 2:43). The fourth kingdom, arising after Greece (and though changing form), extends its influence to the end of the world (Dan. 2:33, 34, 40-44). This fact helps identify it, for only one world power arising after Greece extends its influence to the end of time—Rome.

What then ... IF Arab (as a kingdom) .... is represented in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream?

eleos1954 said:

I would disagree .... the golden image predicts the rise and fall of kingdoms .... with the last of the dream being destruction of the feet (mixture of iron & clay) (destroyed) .... therefore the last ruling kingdom is still in place .... not ruling the entire world (yet) .... but is not totally destroyed as of yet either (it's wound is healed).

IF ... as you say .... Arabs .... what is the wound that is/was healed? What does the iron and clay represent?



Many times throughout history Europe has attempted to unite .... the 10 nations (Daniel 10 horns) that were formed that are now the European ... outside of this there will be no more uniting of the nations (will not cleve to one another)

The 10 nations are members of both NATO and the European Union. What bound them together was a mutual defense obligation under Article Five of the modified Brussels Treaty, which meant that an attack against one would be an attack against all.

On March 31, 2010, the 10 nations announced that they had agreed to terminate their alliance and transfer the Western European Union’s powers to the European Union — which, under the Lisbon Treaty, has developed a mutual defense obligation that includes all the EU member states.

The 10 nations that made up the alliance were: Belgium, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, United Kingdom

Unlike the first three kingdoms, whose metals cease with their demise, the iron of the fourth kingdom remains until the end of the world, even if in the feet and toes the iron is mixed with “miry clay” (Dan. 2:43). The fourth kingdom, arising after Greece (and though changing form), extends its influence to the end of the world (Dan. 2:33, 34, 40-44). This fact helps identify it, for only one world power arising after Greece extends its influence to the end of time—Rome.

What then ... IF Arab (as a kingdom) .... is represented in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream?

Click to expand...

It's the Islamic/ Ottoman Turk Empire. Came out the of the same area as the other beasts, it was suddenly dissolved in 1923 (head wound), and now the president of Turkey is pushing for another Caliphate. We are looking in the wrong place when we see Rome.

Rome was the 6th empire at the time of John (one is), the 7th was the Islamic, then 8th will be the revived Caliphate. The 8th must come out of the 7th, the 10 nation kingdom only get power for 3.5 years just before Jesus returns and crushes them all at the same time.

The man and beast empire cannot be separated. The man will come out of this empire that was suddenly dissolved (mortal head wound), and he will suffer a mortal head wound and will be healed (resurrected) and then the whole world will be required to worship him. The Arab world will for the most part, and he will have many converts all over the world who will rise up and engage in Jihad against those who will not. We have seen this on a small scale with ISIS.

10and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. 11“The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction. 12“The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. 13“These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast

Olmhinlu said:

Why do you think the way you do and, in the parallel case, how do you break it up, and what does your timeline look like?

Click to expand...

I started my own thread on charting Revelation 6-12.

.

AppleCider said:

.

Click to expand...

I am working on it....okay? big changes, updates coming. This is turning out to
be a big project.

Olmhinlu said:

For those of you who believe that the book of Revelation describes future events: do you believe that it can be read mostly in order, or do you believe that there are different parallel visions that describe events that would overlap on a timeline?

Why do you think the way you do and, in the parallel case, how do you break it up, and what does your timeline look like?

Click to expand...

Rev.6 with the Seals follows the order of the Signs our Lord Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse. The last Sign He gave was that of His coming to end this world and gather His Church. He gave only 7 Signs of the end in His Olivet discourse. His Revelation simply expands the explanation of those same 7 Signs into 21. The order of those events in His Olivet discourse is not changed by Revelation.

The devil is booted out of the heavenly with his angels, to this earth, at the height of the flood waters of great tribulation on the 6th Seal (1st part), the 6th Trumpet, and the 6th Vial. That is the real meaning of 666.

6th Seal -- (1st part)--
Rev 6:12-13
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
KJV

The idea of untimely figs is about the winter fig that grows in the winter and falls off in the spring. That is given as a metaphor for the coming of the pseudo-Messiah who comes first, prior to our Lord Jesus' return. The stars of heaven falling to earth of course is about Satan and his angels being kicked out of the heavenly for the end (Rev.12:7-9).


6th Trumpet --
Rev 9:13-19
13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
KJV

The river Euphrates represents the border between God's people and Satan's host. That was the northern most border God gave to Israel. It is being opened up there. Those four angels being loosed and then that great army working deception (their power is in their mouths) on earth represents the height of the tribulation strong delusion. God's two witnesses will prophesy in Jerusalem for 1260 days during this 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period. Jesus comes on the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe.

6th Vial --
Rev 16:12-17
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
KJV

On that 6th Vial, the opening up of the symbolic Euphrates river border is shown again. We are shown Satan's host in prep with his army to fight at the battle of Armageddon. Especially note that is the time of the working of those miracles by the beast of Rev.13. Within that same 6th vial timing, our Lord Jesus warns His Church still on earth that He comes "as a thief", pointing to the "day of the Lord" that will come "as a thief in the night" that Apostles Paul and Peter taught. Then Armageddon happens with the 7th vial being poured out, and it's all over, the end of this present world with Jesus' coming with His army to fight.

The second portion of the 6th Seal is about the day of Christ's coming. It parallels the 7th trumpet and that 7th vial event.

Follow the 'events', get into the heart of them. Don't be deceived by the order John was given to write down the 3 sets of seals, trumpets, and vials. They are all only about 7 Signs Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse.

1st Seal - Mark 13:5-6
2nd Seal - Mark 13:7
3rd & 4th Seals - Mark 13:8
5th Seal - Mark 13:9-13
6th Seal - Mark 13:14-27 (1st part is Satan coming; 2nd part is Jesus coming)

Olmhinlu said:

Thank you, everybody, for your interesting replies and perspectives.
That was my first/intuitive reading. In the 6th seal "the stars of the sky fell to earth" (Rev 6:13). In the 4th trumpet "a third of the stars" were "struck" (along with a third of the sun and moon; 8:12) that "their light might be darkened" - is there a contradiction there? I understand some stars in Revelation are symbolic/not celestial lights e.g. the star falling from heaven, the star Wormwood etc.
I didn't see it, but searching through your posts brings up a lot of interesting stuff I would like to look into. Regarding the chart that you used to have in this thread: what is the basic, core framework you start from that you then fit Revelation into?
I think using the Olivet discourse as the main interpretive foundation seems correct. Regarding the post quoted: does that mean that, roughly, seal #4 = trumpet #4 = bowl #4, for example?
Thank you for that!

Forgive me if this is a silly question - what are the first 5 empires?

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It should be:

1, Babylon
2, Medes and Persian
3, Greece
4, Romans