Saved by faith alone

Bible Highlighter · Jul 25, 2020

While we are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace through faith in Christ, the Bible also teaches that works of faith also play a part in the salvation process. For both Jesus and Paul taught and or implied that works play a part in eternal life.

#1. Both Jesus and Paul essentially say you can deny God by one's works.

For Jesus said,
"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matthew 7:23).

Jesus said,
"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 25:30).

Paul said,
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

#2. Both Jesus and Paul essentially say you need to drink of (walk in) the Spirit as a part of everlasting life.

Jesus said,
"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." (John 4:14).

Jesus said,
"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." (John 7:38).

John said this of Jesus's words,
"(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)" (John 7:39).

Paul said,
“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Paul said,
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

Paul said,
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).

#3. Both Jesus and Paul say that the judgment involves those being condemned or punished in the afterlife for doing evil vs. doing good leading to glory or life as a part of God's kingdom.

Jesus said,
"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Paul said,
"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

Paul said,
19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21).

#4. Both Jesus and Paul taught that we have to continue to abide in the good works of the Lord or we will be cut off and or burned in the fire.

Jesus said,
4 "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned" (John 15:4-6).

Paul said,
“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

#5. Both Jesus and Peter essentially say that the fear of the Lord is a part of salvation.

Jesus said,
"Fear not them who can kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him (The Lord, i.e. Jesus) who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna (i.e. the Lake of Fire) (‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:28‬).

Paul said,
"...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12).

#6. Both Jesus and Paul taught that laboring for the right kind of food relates to everlasting life.

Jesus says,
"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you..." (John 6:29).

Jesus says,
"My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work." (John 4:34).

Paul said,
“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

#7. Both Jesus and Paul spoke of a time in the last days of where false prophets shall arise who are faithless and who do not love (i.e. they will have a form of godliness).

Jesus said,
"Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8).

Jesus said,
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold." (Matthew 24:12).

Jesus said,
"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many" (Matthew 24:11).

Paul said,
1 "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was."
(2 Timothy 3:1-9).

Side Note:

Please take note that James says he will show you his faith by his works (James 2:18). So the faithless that Jesus talks about are those who are fruitless or those who do not have any truly good works. 2 Timothy 3:1-9 is also a revealing passage, as well. Basically it is saying what you are not supposed to be like. For this passage describes those who have a form of godliness and they are lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God. This means that a Belief Alone Type Gospel (that leads to one not being concerned about sin or not treating it as seriously) is simply not true. For the moment I tell someone that all they need to do to be saved is to believe in Jesus and nothing else, they are going to not be concerned with living holy (because they do not think it is necessary to enter God's Kingdom).

GDL · Jul 25, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
This means that a Belief Alone Type Gospel (that leads to one not being concerned about sin or not treating it as seriously) is simply not true. For the moment I tell someone that all they need to do to be saved is to believe in Jesus and nothing else, they are going to not be concerned with living holy (because they do not think it is necessary to enter God's Kingdom).

Agree with this.

I think we've come to the point where the Gospel being presented by most is this "Belief Alone Type" stated here. I also think the 1Cor15 "Gospel" is really not the foundational point of the Gospel, but a portion of the Gospel Paul was proclaiming as can be seen in Acts18 > Acts13.

The foundational point of the Gospel is that Jesus is The Christ. Paul explains this in 1Cor1. He was teaching exactly this when traveling after He was initially saved. In Acts 18 he specifically makes this point. In Acts13 he makes this point among many about Christ & he specifically references Psalm2 as his detail about who the Christ – this Jesus – is.

Point being: Follow Paul’s evangelism. Teach about YHWH’s Christ – Jesus, the authority he has over all, and the warnings against angering Him (Ps2). When it comes to explaining Belief in Him, explain that Biblical Faith is Obedience to Him and Obedience to Him is Biblical Faith (as well as Biblical Love for Him).

Biblical Faith in Jesus Christ is a submission to His absolute authority. The process of discipleship in Christ is continually learning more and more of God’s will – God’s standards – growing to Perfection, which is defined in one part as having our faculties well-exercised to judge both good & bad (Heb5). And Paul in Phil says that once there, the process continues as the Perfect/Mature press on to the high call of God in Christ Jesus, in essence seeking higher & higher Perfection that Paul calls arriving at the Resurrection.

This is the Biblical Salvation Process that Jesus died to put in place for us. It is an advance and growing up in Righteousness & Holiness and thus it is overcoming sin to ever greater degrees while we draw breath here.

When the angel of the Lord told Joseph what he was to name the Son Mary would bear, the explanation of the name (Yah Saves) was that He would Save His People from their sins. To limit what Jesus accomplished on the cross and instituted thereafter to initial Salvation is a great misunderstanding of what is contained the phrases, Save from their sins & His People. His People when studied applies to those who are obedient to Him. Saving them from their sins carries the same truth of obedience.

If we want to discuss losing Salvation, what are we discussing?

Firstly, I don’t see this discussed enough, but in John6 Jesus explains that those “disciples” who were following Him around until He gave the eating His flesh & drinking His blood teaching, at which time they left Him & followed Him no more, very simply per Him were never granted to Him by our Father. You reject what I say, then I'm not Lord to you, thus you were never granted to me in the first place. Repentance now come to mind for you???

So, just who has been granted? Obviously not everyone who thinks they’re a Christian, or goes to church, or….

Then, as has been pointed out in this thread, there are just too many warnings and teachings about the requirement to endure and not fall back, to consider eternal security too glibly.

In Heb6 we’re told that this growth & advance takes place of God allows it. Elsewhere we’re told that we repent if He allows it. To not take His teachings & warnings & commands to grow up in Faith-Obedience seriously, in my view is just not taking our Text seriously.

So, what is loss of Salvation, specifically? I know most are simply considering it in the concept of not going to Heaven when they die. But what about loss of Salvation being loss of the privilege of being raised to adulthood in Christ as discussed above? Is there such a thing as a perpetual infant in Christ, who, as Paul teaches, simply functions like an unbeliever – a fleshly person?

All discussion points, I guess. But at some point, I simply came to consider such questions as being almost pointless. A Child of God is being raised in Christ to look more & more like his or her First-Born Brother and Lord, and to carry the Name of our God in a worthy manner. If you remain too concerned about losing, you probably were not taught in the first place to understand who Jesus is and therefore what our orientation to Him has to be and how we have to grow in this as commanded.

As He said, the time is coming and now is where those who bow in obeisance to God must bow in obeisance in Spirit & Truth (J4). This is what God’s Plan was & is. This is what Yah Saves died to set up – Law being written on hearts in Christ by His Spirit. Faithfully Obedient Children of God – His People Saved from their sins… (No need to discuss sinless perfection - John covers that quite well).

zoidar · Jul 25, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
I already gave you the verses on how we can have an assurance in knowing the Lord after we are saved by His grace. Are you ignoring 1 John 2:3, 1 John 2:5, John 15:9-10, and 1 John 3:10?

If not, then at least explain 1 John 2:3, and 1 John 3:10 for me.

What do you make of “walking in the light” so that the blood of Jesus cleanses us of all sin in 1 John 1:7?

It sure doesn't sound like the same thing that you are talking about.

Do you not know that “walking in the light” is loving your brother according to the use of indirect words in 1 John 2:9-11?

Thanks for the verses! I will take a closer look at each. God bless you!

GDL · Jul 25, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
What power are they denying? The power of godliness. The power that God can help them to live a holy life

I did some fairly extensive studies on this "godliness" word and as with so many important Biblical Words, it took several words to explain it. I ended up with a summary statement something to the effect of, "living a willingly obedient, righteous & holy life towards God as did Jesus Christ."

Obviously an extremely important word for us to consider in regards to our life in Christ. Titus2 speaks of how Grace teaches us to live in this manner & couples it with righteousness & living sensibly (self control).

GenemZ · Jul 25, 2020

Hammster said:
That’s a difference without a distinction.

You have to have enough knowledge before you can make the distinction. That is why we need to be taught sound doctrine very frequently. Jesus and the apostles taught daily.

GenemZ · Jul 25, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
I already gave you the verses on how we can have an assurance in knowing the Lord after we are saved by His grace. Are you ignoring 1 John 2:3, 1 John 2:5, John 15:9-10, and 1 John 3:10?

If not, then at least explain 1 John 2:3, and 1 John 3:10 for me.

3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands."

That means we will find ourselves doing his commands if we know Him.

For example, finding ourselves loving our brethren makes us know we know Him! Not by memorizing some commands and then following them like a boy scout who wants to earn merit badges. From our new nature we will find ourselves keeping His commands without even consciously thinking about it. New nature!

What do you make of “walking in the light” so that the blood of Jesus cleanses us of all sin in 1 John 1:7?

It sure doesn't sound like the same thing that you are talking about.

Do you not know that “walking in the light” is loving your brother according to the use of indirect words in 1 John 2:9-11?

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Hammster · Jul 25, 2020

genez said:
You have top have enough knowledge before you can make the distinction. That is why we need to be taught sound doctrine very frequently. Jesus and the apostles taught daily.

Show me the scripture. Don’t hold back.

GenemZ · Jul 25, 2020

Hammster said:
Show me the scripture. Don’t hold back.

"Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house,
they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news
that Jesus is the Messiah." Act 5:42

How long would it take for us to graduate first grade if we went to school only on Sundays?

Each day Jesus was teaching at the temple, and each evening
he went out to spend the night on the hill called the Mount of
Olives." Lk 21:37

We have been dumbed down by too many churches that leave us failing to understand the plan and will of God.

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound
doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather
around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Tim 4:3

That has come to pass! Many today will only accept and understand "image enforcing" and "church programs." Few pulpits have pastors capable of genuine solid teaching. Most churches do not want them, as stated in 1 Timothy 4:3.

If interested:

This pastor taught every evening of the week (and, some mornings as well). Every day, except Saturdays.. so he could rest up and watch sports on TV. He loved football and boxing. He loved the Word of God more than anything else in his life. He taught daily just like Jesus and the apostles did. Just like many of the prophets also did.

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If you want the teachings to try? No money will be asked for!

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grace and peace.........

Hammster · Jul 25, 2020

genez said:
"Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house,
they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news
that Jesus is the Messiah." Act 5:42

How long would it take for us to graduate first grade if we went to school only on Sundays?

Each day Jesus was teaching at the temple, and each evening
he went out to spend the night on the hill called the Mount of
Olives." Lk 21:37

We have been dumbed down by too many churches that leave us failing to understand the plan and will of God.

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound
doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather
around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Tim 4:3

That has come to pass! Many today will only accept and understand "image enforcing" and "church programs." Few pulpits have pastors capable of genuine solid teaching. Most churches do not want them, as stated in 1 Timothy 4:3.

If interested:

This pastor taught every evening of the week (and, some mornings as well). Every day, except Saturdays.. so he could rest up and watch sports on TV. He loved football and boxing. He loved the Word of God more than anything else in his life. He taught daily just like Jesus and the apostles did. Just like many of the prophets also did.

R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

If you want the teachings to try? No money will be asked for!

R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

grace and peace.........

That’s a big nothingburger.

zoidar · Jul 25, 2020

zoidar said:
I have gone back to "saved by faith alone". Why? One reason was I could find no peace when I had to look at my own life to see if I was saved. Do works matter? Surely so! By obedience we keep our faith, but it's by faith through the Holy Spirit we are connected to Christ, the cross, the forgiveness of sins. Through the Holy Spirit we are children of God.

Tim 4
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; 8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

A side note to this would be, that we need to repent and believe the Gospel. Believing without repenting doesn't give the new birth - the living faith.

I think some Christians get stuck in believing without repenting.

Hammster · Jul 25, 2020

zoidar said:
A side note to this would be, that we need to repent and believe the Gospel. Believing without repenting doesn't give the new birth - the living faith.

I think some Christians get stuck in believing without repenting.

Those wouldn’t be Christians.

zoidar · Jul 25, 2020

Hammster said:
Those wouldn’t be Christians.

No, not in the sense of being saved, but could still be regular "church goers".

GenemZ · Jul 25, 2020

Hammster said:
That’s a big nothingburger.

Starve then...

Hammster · Jul 25, 2020

zoidar said:
No, not in the sense of being saved, but could still be regular "church goers".

Repentance is a sign of being in Christ. And so is obedience.

Hammster · Jul 25, 2020

genez said:
Starve then...

I won’t eat poisonous food. So if starvation is the option, then I’ll starve.

GenemZ · Jul 25, 2020

Hammster said:
I won’t eat poisonous food. So if starvation is the option, then I’ll starve.

"To the one we are an aroma that brings death; to the other,
an aroma that brings life. And who is equal to such a task? " 2 Cor 2:16

Hammster · Jul 25, 2020

genez said:
"To the one we are an aroma that brings death; to the other,
an aroma that brings life. And who is equal to such a task? " 2 Cor 2:16

Well, I’m saved. I’m hoping that you are indicating otherwise by posting this.

zoidar · Jul 25, 2020

Hammster said:
Repentance is a sign of being in Christ. And so is obedience.

Repentance is the doorway to be born again. Obedience is the sign of having repented, and been reborn.

Edit: But I believe we've gone through this before ^_^

Hammster · Jul 25, 2020

zoidar said:
Repentance is the doorway to be born again. Obedience is the sign of having repented, and been reborn.

Edit: But I believe we've gone through this before

Actually, repentance is the sign of being born again. And yes, we’ve been through it.

GenemZ · Jul 25, 2020

Hammster said:
Well, I’m saved. I’m hoping that you are indicating otherwise by posting this.

I must have you confused with someone else who believes we must keep all his commandments to be saved. If that were the case?
What if you fail to keep His commandments?
Maybe that's not you. Its hard to sometimes keep track of who's who in this obstacle course with the tracers only inches above.

Saved by faith alone

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

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The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

Well-Known Member

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

Well-Known Member

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

Well-Known Member

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

Well-Known Member

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