LDS when and how did God become the father of our spirits

Daniel Marsh

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Reading context beats that because I would not consider that too basic because it does not deal with the grammar. It is simply a list of words.

But, here is a text analysis if one wants to call it that.

Verse 14
Toward the goal (κατα σκοπον — kata skopon). “Down upon the goal,” who is Jesus himself to whom we must continually look as we run (Hebrews 12:2). The word means a watchman, then the goal or mark. Only here in N.T.

Unto the prize (εις το βραβειον — eis to brabeion). Late word (Menander and inscriptions) from βραβευς — brabeus (umpire who awards the prize). In N.T. only here and 1 Corinthians 9:24.
Of the high calling (της ανω κλησεως — tēs anō klēseōs). Literally, “of the upward calling.” The goal continually moves forward as we press on, but yet never out of sight.

This text has nothing to do with becoming a god.
 
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Greek: kata skopon dioko (1SPAI) eis to brabeion tes ano kleseos tou theou en Christo Iesou.

Amplified: I press on toward the goal to win the [supreme and heavenly] prize to which God in Christ Jesus is calling us upward. (Amplified Bible - Lockman)

Barclay: I press on towards the goal, in order that I may win the prize which God’s upward calling in Christ Jesus is offering to me. (Westminster Press)

Eadie: Toward the mark I press on, for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Lightfoot: I press forward ever towards the goal, that I may win the prize of my heavenly rest whereunto God has called me in Christ Jesus.

NLT: I strain to reach the end of the race and receive the prize for which God, through Christ Jesus, is calling us up to heaven. (NLT - Tyndale House)

Phillips: I go straight for the goal - my reward the honour of being called by God in Christ. (Phillips: Touchstone)

Wuest: I am pursuing on for the prize of the call from above of God which is in Christ Jesus.

Young's Literal: to the mark I pursue for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
 
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Peter1000

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In fairness this is what I found that Justin wrote:


Chapter 10. How God is to be served
But we have received by tradition that God does not need the material offerings which men can give, seeing, indeed, that He Himself is the provider of all things. And we have been taught, and are convinced, and do believe, that He accepts those only who imitate the excellences which reside in Him, temperance, and justice, and philanthropy, and as many virtues as are peculiar to a God who is called by no proper name. And we have been taught that He in the beginning did of His goodness, for man's sake, create all things out of unformed matter; and if men by their works show themselves worthy of this His design, they are deemed worthy, and so we have received — of reigning in company with Him, being delivered from corruption and suffering. For as in the beginning He created us when we were not, so do we consider that, in like manner, those who choose what is pleasing to Him are, on account of their choice, deemed worthy of incorruption and of fellowship with Him

Chapter 59. Plato's obligation to Moses
And that you may learn that it was from our teachers — we mean the account given through the prophets— that Plato borrowed his statement that God, having altered matter which was shapeless, made the world, hear the very words spoken through Moses, who, as above shown, was the first prophet, and of greater antiquity than the Greek writers; and through whom the Spirit of prophecy, signifying how and from what materials God at first formed the world, spoke thus: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was invisible and unfurnished, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God moved over the waters. And God said, Let there be light; and it was so. So that both Plato and they who agree with him, and we ourselves, have learned, and you also can be convinced, that by the word of God the whole world was made out of the substance spoken of before by Moses. And that which the poets call Erebus, we know was spoken of formerly by Moses. Deuteronomy 32:22
CHURCH FATHERS: The First Apology (St. Justin Martyr)

2 Maccabees 7:28 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
28 I beseech thee, my son, look upon heaven and earth, and all that is in them: and consider that God made them out of nothing, and mankind also:

"2
That the material of which the universe is composed was created out of nothing is the implicit, rather than specifically explicit, statement of the Bible. The Scriptural teaching on God and the relation of the universe to Him unmistakably affirms creation. God alone is declared to be underived, self-existent (Exodus 3:14), and in comparison with Him all things else are as nothing (Wisdom 11:23; Isaiah 40:17). God is said to be the beginning and end of all things (Isaiah 48:12; Revelation 1:8); all things else are from Him, and by Him, and in Him (Romans 11:36; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Colossians 1:16). God is the absolute and independent sovereign (Psalm 49:12 and Isaiah 44:24; Hebrews 1:10). That these texts equivalently assert that God is the Creator of all things finite is too obvious to call for further comment. The most explicit Scriptural statement respecting the created origin of the universe is found in the first verse of Genesis: "In the beginning God created heaven and earth". The objects here designated evidently comprise the material universe; whether the originative act is to be understood as specifically creative, depends upon the meaning of the Hebrew verb bara. On this point the following interpretations by unimpeachable authority may be adduced. Gesenius says: "The use of this verb [bara] in Kal, the conjugation here employed, is entirely different from its primary signification (to cut, shape, fashion); it signifies rather the new production of a thing than the shaping or elaborating of the pre-existing material. That the first verse of Genesis teaches that the original creation of the world in its rude and chaotic state was from nothing while the remaining part of the chapter teaches the elaboration and distribution of the matter thus created, the connection of the whole section shows sufficiently clearly" (Thesaurus, p. 357 b). Mühlan and Volck in the new edition of Gesenius' "Handwörterbuch" say: "Bara is used only of Divine creation and never with an accusative of the material". Dillmann (Genesis 1) notes: "The Hebrews use only the conjugation Piel (intensative) in speaking of human 'forming' or 'shaping', while on the other hand they use only Kal in speaking of creation of God". Delitzsch says: (Gen., p. 91) "The word bara in its etymology does not exclude a previous material. lilt has, as the use of Kal shows, the fundamental idea of cutting or hewing. But as In other languages words which define creation by God have the same etymological idea at their root, so bara has acquired the idiomatic meaning of a divine creating, which, whether in the kingdom of nature, or of history, or of the spirit, calls into being that which hitherto had no existence. Bara never appears as the word for human creation, differing in this from the synonyms asah, yatzar, yalad, which are used both of men and of God; it is never used with an accusative of the material, and even from this it follows that it defines the divine creative act as one without any limitations, and its result, as to its proper material, as entirely new; and, as to its first cause, entirely the creation of divine power." Again Kalisch observes (Gen., p. 1): "God called the universe into being out of nothing; not out of formless matter coeval with Himself" (Geikie, Hours with the Bible, I, 16)."
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Creation

2 Maccabees 7:28 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
28 I beseech you, my child, to look at the heaven and the earth and see everything that is in them, and recognize that God did not make them out of things that existed. Thus also mankind comes into being.

Thus says the Lord, the God that created the heavens, and made them fast, that established the earth, and that which is in it; and gave breath to the people upon it, and spirit to them who walk therein: I the Lord God have called You in righteousness, and will hold Your hand, and will strengthen You; and I have given You for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles, to open the eyes of the blind, to bring out them that are bound from the chains, and those who sit in darkness from the prison-house. I am the Lord God; this is my name: my glory will I not give to another, nor my virtues to graven images. "
CHURCH FATHERS: Dialogue with Trypho, Chapters 55-68 (Justin Martyr)

"Justin: Is what you say, then, of a like nature with that which Plato in Timæus hints about the world, when he says that it is indeed subject to decay, inasmuch as it has been created, but that it will neither be dissolved nor meet with the fate of death on account of the will of God? Does it seem to you the very same can be said of the soul, and generally of all things? For those things which exist after God, or shall at any time exist, these have the nature of decay, and are such as may be blotted out and cease to exist; for God alone is unbegotten and incorruptible, and therefore He is God, but all other things after Him are created and corruptible."
CHURCH FATHERS: Dialogue with Trypho, Chapters 1-9 (Justin Martyr)

Justin: But that you may not have a pretext for saying that Christ must have been crucified, and that those who transgressed must have been among your nation, and that the matter could not have been otherwise, I said briefly by anticipation, that God, wishing men and angels to follow His will, resolved to create them free to do righteousness; possessing reason, that they may know by whom they are created, and through whom they, not existing formerly, do now exist; and with a law that they should be judged by Him, if they do anything contrary to right reason: and of ourselves we, men and angels, shall be convicted of having acted sinfully, unless we repent beforehand. But if the word of God foretells that some angels and men shall be certainly punished, it did so because it foreknew that they would be unchangeably [wicked], but not because God had created them so. So that if they repent, all who wish for it can obtain mercy from God: and the Scripture foretells that they shall be blessed, saying, 'Blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputes not sin;' that is, having repented of his sins, that he may receive remission of them from God; and not as you deceive yourselves, and some others who resemble you in this, who say, that even though they be sinners, but know God, the Lord will not impute sin to them. We have as proof of this the one fall of David, which happened through his boasting, which was forgiven then when he so mourned and wept, as it is written. But if even to such a man no remission was granted before repentance, and only when this great king, and anointed one, and prophet, mourned and conducted himself so, how can the impure and utterly abandoned, if they weep not, and mourn not, and repent not, entertain the hope that the Lord will not impute to them sin?
CHURCH FATHERS: Dialogue with Trypho, Chapters 125-142 (Justin Martyr)

I could pull all kinds of quotes like you have done to show you that there was people like Martyr that believe God made this out of existing matter.

The bible is silent. When it says God created..... the word in Hebrew for created is neutral as to "from nothing" vs "from existing". So the bible is not helpful. Therefore we must believe what we believe and let others believe what they believe. It is an interesting discussion though.
 
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Jamesone5

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So again, who is "the Father of spirits"? We are not talking about which sons are legitimate and which are not. Who is "the Father of spirits"?

You can say, since there are NO sons, there is NO "Father of spirits". Just say that instead of focusing on a scripture that was not the topic scripture in the first place, and refusing to answer what the topic scripture said clearly.

Obviously you have been conditioned to argue, even if you are not right.

So again, who is "the Father of spirits"? We are not talking about which sons are legitimate and which are not. Who is "the Father of spirits"?----Peter1000

So now you have 1: men have spirits,+ 1: God is the Father of those spirits in all of us---Peter1000

You are now admitting that God is NOT the Father of all spirits as your weird addition problem suggests.

Figure it out from there.
 
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Jamesone5

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OK, I understand that, but what you have done because you are afraid to answer the question is to focus on the 2 scriptures before the topic scripture with some context nonsense in mind, without any discussion about the topic scripture. That is called deflecting for obvious reasons.

So now, because we are well informed about Hebrews 12: 7-8, lets talk about Hebrews 12:9.
Please explain who "the fathers of our flesh" are? and who is "the Father of spirits"?
Thank, you. You may explain how Hebrews 12:7-8 relates to Hebrews 12:9, but focus on Hebrews 12:9. Thank you.
I think you want to pretend Hebrews 12:-7-8 do not exist

Does not work that way.
 
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Peter1000

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Reading context beats that because I would not consider that too basic because it does not deal with the grammar. It is simply a list of words.

But, here is a text analysis if one wants to call it that.

Verse 14
Toward the goal (κατα σκοπον — kata skopon). “Down upon the goal,” who is Jesus himself to whom we must continually look as we run (Hebrews 12:2). The word means a watchman, then the goal or mark. Only here in N.T.

Unto the prize (εις το βραβειον — eis to brabeion). Late word (Menander and inscriptions) from βραβευς — brabeus (umpire who awards the prize). In N.T. only here and 1 Corinthians 9:24.
Of the high calling (της ανω κλησεως — tēs anō klēseōs). Literally, “of the upward calling.” The goal continually moves forward as we press on, but yet never out of sight.

This text has nothing to do with becoming a god.
The Church of Jesus Christ has defined the goal, which continually moves forward as we press on, but yet is never out of sight. That goal is to become like God. A very high calling that God has put within our reach, but we must press on with all our might, mind, and strength, with grace and humility we press on for the prize.

Jesus has told us if we overcome this world, like he did, then we can sit with him in his throne.
How many millions of years of being intimately close to him would it take for him to teach us how to create?
 
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Jamesone5

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I could pull all kinds of quotes like you have done to show you that there was people like Martyr that believe God made this out of existing matter.

The bible is silent. When it says God created..... the word in Hebrew for created is neutral as to "from nothing" vs "from existing". So the bible is not helpful. Therefore we must believe what we believe and let others believe what they believe. It is an interesting discussion though.

When it says God created..... the word in Hebrew for created is neutral as to "from nothing" vs "from existing". So the bible is not helpful. ---Peter1000

NOT helpful? It seems that the Bible does not fit the Mormon construct so then you can say "it is not helpful".
 
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Daniel Marsh

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As certain also of your own poets - Probably he means not only Aratus, in whose poem, entitled Phaenomena, the words quoted by St. Paul are to be found literatim, του γαρ και γενος εσμεν ; but also Cleanthus, in whose Hymn to Jupiter the same words (Εκ σου γαρ γενος εσμεν ) occur. But the sentiment is found in several others, being very common among the more enlightened philosophers. By saying your own poets, he does not mean poets born at Athens, but merely Grecian poets, Aratus and Cleanthus being chief.

We are also his offspring - Του γαρ και γενος εσμεν The Phaenomena of Aratus, in which these words are found, begins thus: -

Εκ Διος αρχωμεσθα, τον ουδεποτ 'ανδρες εωμενπ

Αρῤητον· μεϚαι δε Διος πασαι μεν αγυιαι,π

Πασαι δ 'ανθρωπων αγοραι· μεϚη δε θαλασσα,π

Και λιμενες· παντη δε Διος κεχρημεθα παντες·

ΤΟΥ ΓΑΡ ΚΑΙ ΓΕΝΟΣ ΕΣΜΕΝ ὁ δ 'ηπιος ανθρωποισιπ

Δεξια σημαινει. κ. τ. λ.

With Jove we must begin; nor from him rove;

Him always praise, for all is full of Jove!

He fills all places where mankind resort,

The wide-spread sea, with every shelt'ring port.

Jove's presence fills all space, upholds this ball;

All need his aid; his power sustains us all.

For we his offspring are; and he in love

Points out to man his labor from above:

Where signs unerring show when best the soil,

By well-timed culture, shall repay our toil, etc., etc.

Aratus was a Cilician, one of St. Paul's own countrymen, and with his writings St. Paul was undoubtedly well acquainted, though he had flourished about 300 years before that time.
Acts 17:28 - for in Him we live... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary


As certain even of your own poets (hōs kai tines tōn kath' humās poiētōn). “As also some of the poets among you.” Aratus of Soli in Cilicia (ab. b.c. 270) has these very words in his Ta Phainomena and Cleanthes, Stoic philosopher (300-220 b.c.) in his Hymn to Zeus has Ek sou gar genos esōmen In 1 Corinthians 15:32 Paul quotes from Menander and in Titus 1:12 from Epimenides. J. Rendel Harris claims that he finds allusions in Paul‘s Epistles to Pindar, Aristophanes, and other Greek writers. There is no reason in the world why Paul should not have acquaintance with Greek literature, though one need not strain a point to prove it. Paul, of course, knew that the words were written of Zeus (Jupiter), not of Jehovah, but he applies the idea in them to his point just made that all men are the offspring of God.
Acts 17 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament
 
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Peter1000

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I think you want to pretend Hebrews 12:-7-8 do not exist

Does not work that way.
I think you want to pretend that Hebrews 12:9 does not exist. I accepted that they exist and asked you to explain how they relate to Hebrews 12:9, which you have again decided not to answer. What are you afraid of?
 
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Jamesone5

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I think you want to pretend that Hebrews 12:9 does not exist. I accepted that they exist and asked you to explain how they relate to Hebrews 12:9, which you have again decided not to answer. What are you afraid of?


I am not afraid but here again you do not reference Hebrews 12:7-8----- which sets up the truth for Hebrews 12:9

You going to read your Bible with nothing but assumptions?


And you partially admit that there is some that are illegitimate and not sons---instead of God supposedly being the Father of ALL Spirits. And then insert elsewhere "The bible is not helpful"
 
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Peter1000

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When it says God created..... the word in Hebrew for created is neutral as to "from nothing" vs "from existing". So the bible is not helpful. ---Peter1000

NOT helpful? It seems that the Bible does not fit the Mormon construct so then you can say "it is not helpful".
The bible does fit our construct, in this case, as well as it fits your, because it is not too helpful when it comes to how God created.
1) Did he take existing materials to create a new earth?
2) Did he create new materials out of nothing for a new earth?

You can believe what you will on this subject and I can not refute you, accept to say that the bible does not help you or I.
I will however, tell you why I believe he created from existing material.

In Genesis 1:2 it says that the earth was without form, and was void.
I would think that if God created the earth out of nothing, he would have created it nice and round and beautiful, like it is today, rather than without form, and then later created a new beautiful earth.

If God took existing material without form and created a new earth, that makes more sense to me.

But again, the bible is not clear how God created. So I would never push the point.
 
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Peter1000

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I am not afraid but here again you do not reference Hebrews 12:7-8----- which sets up the truth for Hebrews 12:9

You going to read your Bible with nothing but assumptions?


And you partially admit that there is some that are illegitimate and not sons---instead of God supposedly being the Father of ALL Spirits. And then insert elsewhere "The bible is not helpful"
I did reference Hebrews 12:7-8 and ask you to explain how they relate to Hebrews 12:9 which is poison to you. For some terrible reason you want to stay away from Hebrews 12:9 at all cost.

So once again, explain how Hebrews 12:7-8 relate to Hebrews 12:9.

And especially explain who is "the Father of spirits" in Hebrews 12:9. Thank you.
 
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Peter1000

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I am not afraid but here again you do not reference Hebrews 12:7-8----- which sets up the truth for Hebrews 12:9

You going to read your Bible with nothing but assumptions?


And you partially admit that there is some that are illegitimate and not sons---instead of God supposedly being the Father of ALL Spirits. And then insert elsewhere "The bible is not helpful"
God is "the Father of all spirits". Some of those spirit sons are not doing what God wants and will not be chastened, therefore God will not call them his sons. Pretty simple, I not sure what your point is?
And you seem to be afraid of even talking about "the Father of spirits" in Hebrews 12:9. What are you afraid of Hebrews 12:9? Very curious.
 
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Peter1000

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I am not afraid but here again you do not reference Hebrews 12:7-8----- which sets up the truth for Hebrews 12:9

You going to read your Bible with nothing but assumptions?


And you partially admit that there is some that are illegitimate and not sons---instead of God supposedly being the Father of ALL Spirits. And then insert elsewhere "The bible is not helpful"
The "bible is not helpful" comment had to do with whether God created from existing materials or from nothing. not about Hebrews 12:9.
 
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Peter1000

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As certain also of your own poets - Probably he means not only Aratus, in whose poem, entitled Phaenomena, the words quoted by St. Paul are to be found literatim, του γαρ και γενος εσμεν ; but also Cleanthus, in whose Hymn to Jupiter the same words (Εκ σου γαρ γενος εσμεν ) occur. But the sentiment is found in several others, being very common among the more enlightened philosophers. By saying your own poets, he does not mean poets born at Athens, but merely Grecian poets, Aratus and Cleanthus being chief.

We are also his offspring - Του γαρ και γενος εσμεν The Phaenomena of Aratus, in which these words are found, begins thus: -

Εκ Διος αρχωμεσθα, τον ουδεποτ 'ανδρες εωμενπ

Αρῤητον· μεϚαι δε Διος πασαι μεν αγυιαι,π

Πασαι δ 'ανθρωπων αγοραι· μεϚη δε θαλασσα,π

Και λιμενες· παντη δε Διος κεχρημεθα παντες·

ΤΟΥ ΓΑΡ ΚΑΙ ΓΕΝΟΣ ΕΣΜΕΝ ὁ δ 'ηπιος ανθρωποισιπ

Δεξια σημαινει. κ. τ. λ.

With Jove we must begin; nor from him rove;

Him always praise, for all is full of Jove!

He fills all places where mankind resort,

The wide-spread sea, with every shelt'ring port.

Jove's presence fills all space, upholds this ball;

All need his aid; his power sustains us all.

For we his offspring are; and he in love

Points out to man his labor from above:

Where signs unerring show when best the soil,

By well-timed culture, shall repay our toil, etc., etc.

Aratus was a Cilician, one of St. Paul's own countrymen, and with his writings St. Paul was undoubtedly well acquainted, though he had flourished about 300 years before that time.
Acts 17:28 - for in Him we live... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary


As certain even of your own poets (hōs kai tines tōn kath' humās poiētōn). “As also some of the poets among you.” Aratus of Soli in Cilicia (ab. b.c. 270) has these very words in his Ta Phainomena and Cleanthes, Stoic philosopher (300-220 b.c.) in his Hymn to Zeus has Ek sou gar genos esōmen In 1 Corinthians 15:32 Paul quotes from Menander and in Titus 1:12 from Epimenides. J. Rendel Harris claims that he finds allusions in Paul‘s Epistles to Pindar, Aristophanes, and other Greek writers. There is no reason in the world why Paul should not have acquaintance with Greek literature, though one need not strain a point to prove it. Paul, of course, knew that the words were written of Zeus (Jupiter), not of Jehovah, but he applies the idea in them to his point just made that all men are the offspring of God.
Acts 17 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament
Wonderful, Paul is telling the Athenians that even their poets have hit on the idea that all men living on earth are the offspring of God. We have, however, known this since Paul said it in approximately 50ad.

Can you explain how all men are offspring from God?
 
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Hebrews 12 Good News Translation (GNT)
God Our Father
12 As for us, we have this large crowd of witnesses around us. So then, let us rid ourselves of everything that gets in the way, and of the sin which holds on to us so tightly, and let us run with determination the race that lies before us. 2 Let us keep our eyes fixed on Jesus, on whom our faith depends from beginning to end. He did not give up because of the cross! On the contrary, because of the joy that was waiting for him, he thought nothing of the disgrace of dying on the cross, and he is now seated at the right side of God's throne.

3 Think of what he went through; how he put up with so much hatred from sinners! So do not let yourselves become discouraged and give up. 4 For in your struggle against sin you have not yet had to resist to the point of being killed. 5 Have you forgotten the encouraging words which God speaks to you as his children?

“My child, pay attention when the Lord corrects you,
and do not be discouraged when he rebukes you.
6 Because the Lord corrects everyone he loves,
and punishes everyone he accepts as a child.”

7 Endure what you suffer as being a father's punishment; your suffering shows that God is treating you as his children. Was there ever a child who was not punished by his father? 8 If you are not punished, as all his children are, it means you are not real children, but bastards. 9 In the case of our human fathers, they punished us and we respected them. How much more, then, should we submit to our spiritual Father and live! 10 Our human fathers punished us for a short time, as it seemed right to them; but God does it for our own good, so that we may share his holiness. 11 When we are punished, it seems to us at the time something to make us sad, not glad. Later, however, those who have been disciplined by such punishment reap the peaceful reward of a righteous life.

Instructions and Warnings
12 Lift up your tired hands, then, and strengthen your trembling knees! 13 Keep walking on straight paths, so that the lame foot may not be disabled, but instead be healed.

14 Try to be at peace with everyone, and try to live a holy life, because no one will see the Lord without it. 15 Guard against turning back from the grace of God. Let no one become like a bitter plant that grows up and causes many troubles with its poison. 16 Let no one become immoral or unspiritual like Esau, who for a single meal sold his rights as the older son. 17 Afterward, you know, he wanted to receive his father's blessing; but he was turned back, because he could not find any way to change what he had done, even though in tears he looked for it.[a]

18 You have not come, as the people of Israel came, to what you can feel, to Mount Sinai with its blazing fire, the darkness and the gloom, the storm, 19 the blast of a trumpet, and the sound of a voice. When the people heard the voice, they begged not to hear another word, 20 because they could not bear the order which said, “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death.” 21 The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling and afraid!”

22 Instead, you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, with its thousands of angels. 23 You have come to the joyful gathering of God's first-born, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, who is the judge of all people, and to the spirits of good people made perfect. 24 You have come to Jesus, who arranged the new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that promises much better things than does the blood of Abel.

25 Be careful, then, and do not refuse to hear him who speaks. Those who refused to hear the one who gave the divine message on earth did not escape. How much less shall we escape, then, if we turn away from the one who speaks from heaven! 26 His voice shook the earth at that time, but now he has promised, “I will once more shake not only the earth but heaven as well.” 27 The words “once more” plainly show that the created things will be shaken and removed, so that the things that cannot be shaken will remain.

28 Let us be thankful, then, because we receive a kingdom that cannot be shaken. Let us be grateful and worship God in a way that will please him, with reverence and awe; 29 because our God is indeed a destroying fire.

Our LDS friends read sexual relations into verse 9 like our Father and Mother in producing us.

But, from context of the New Testament, God is our spiritual Father by rebirth.

In King James, it has "father of spirits" which they take to mean what they believe.
 
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Acts 17 Good News Translation (GNT)
In Thessalonica
17 Paul and Silas traveled on through Amphipolis and Apollonia and came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue. 2 According to his usual habit Paul went to the synagogue. There during three Sabbaths he held discussions with the people, quoting 3 and explaining the Scriptures, and proving from them that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from death. “This Jesus whom I announce to you,” Paul said, “is the Messiah.” 4 Some of them were convinced and joined Paul and Silas; so did many of the leading women and a large group of Greeks who worshiped God.

5 But some Jews were jealous and gathered worthless loafers from the streets and formed a mob. They set the whole city in an uproar and attacked the home of a man named Jason, in an attempt to find Paul and Silas and bring them out to the people. 6 But when they did not find them, they dragged Jason and some other believers before the city authorities and shouted, “These men have caused trouble everywhere! Now they have come to our city, 7 and Jason has kept them in his house. They are all breaking the laws of the Emperor, saying that there is another king, whose name is Jesus.” 8 With these words they threw the crowd and the city authorities in an uproar. 9 The authorities made Jason and the others pay the required amount of money to be released, and then let them go.

In Berea
10 As soon as night came, the believers sent Paul and Silas to Berea. When they arrived, they went to the synagogue. 11 The people there were more open-minded than the people in Thessalonica. They listened to the message with great eagerness, and every day they studied the Scriptures to see if what Paul said was really true. 12 Many of them believed; and many Greek women of high social standing and many Greek men also believed. 13 But when the Jews in Thessalonica heard that Paul had preached the word of God in Berea also, they came there and started exciting and stirring up the mobs. 14 At once the believers sent Paul away to the coast; but both Silas and Timothy stayed in Berea. 15 The men who were taking Paul went with him as far as Athens and then returned to Berea with instructions from Paul that Silas and Timothy should join him as soon as possible.

In Athens
16 While Paul was waiting in Athens for Silas and Timothy, he was greatly upset when he noticed how full of idols the city was. 17 So he held discussions in the synagogue with the Jews and with the Gentiles who worshiped God, and also in the public square every day with the people who happened to come by. 18 Certain Epicurean and Stoic teachers also debated with him. Some of them asked, “What is this ignorant show-off trying to say?”

Others answered, “He seems to be talking about foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was preaching about Jesus and the resurrection.[a] 19 So they took Paul, brought him before the city council, the Areopagus, and said, “We would like to know what this new teaching is that you are talking about. 20 Some of the things we hear you say sound strange to us, and we would like to know what they mean.” (21 For all the citizens of Athens and the foreigners who lived there liked to spend all their time telling and hearing the latest new thing.)

22 Paul stood up in front of the city council and said, “I see that in every way you Athenians are very religious. 23 For as I walked through your city and looked at the places where you worship, I found an altar on which is written, ‘To an Unknown God.’ That which you worship, then, even though you do not know it, is what I now proclaim to you. 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, is Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples made by human hands. 25 Nor does he need anything that we can supply by working for him, since it is he himself who gives life and breath and everything else to everyone. 26 From one human being he created all races of people and made them live throughout the whole earth. He himself fixed beforehand the exact times and the limits of the places where they would live. 27 He did this so that they would look for him, and perhaps find him as they felt around for him. Yet God is actually not far from any one of us; 28 as someone has said,

‘In him we live and move and exist.’
It is as some of your poets have said,
‘We too are his children.’

29 Since we are God's children, we should not suppose that his nature is anything like an image of gold or silver or stone, shaped by human art and skill. 30 God has overlooked the times when people did not know him, but now he commands all of them everywhere to turn away from their evil ways. 31 For he has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a man he has chosen. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that man from death!”

32 When they heard Paul speak about a raising from death, some of them made fun of him, but others said, “We want to hear you speak about this again.” 33 And so Paul left the meeting. 34 Some men joined him and believed, among whom was Dionysius, a member of the council; there was also a woman named Damaris, and some other people.


Paul is simply using a hook to point out that God is not an idol like they made of gold or of other things.

"
Look, then, whether these things may not be predicated of the Son also. Being Lord, he says, of heaven and earth — which they accounted to be God's. Both the creation he declares to be His work, and mankind also. Having determined, he says, the times assigned to them, and the bounds of their habitation, (v. 25, 26), that they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after Him, and find Him, though He be not far from every one of us: for in Him we live, and move, and have our being: as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also His offspring. (v. 27, 28.) This is said by Aratus the poet. Observe how he draws his arguments from things done by themselves, and from sayings of their own. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art. Acts 17:29 And yet for this reason we ought. By no means: for surely we are not like (to such), nor are these souls of ours. And imagination of man. How so? * * But some person might say, We do not think this. But it was to the many that he was addressing himself, not now to Philosophy. How then did they think so unworthily of Him? Again, putting it upon their ignorance, he says, Now the times of ignorance God overlooked. Having agitated their minds by the fear, he then adds this: and yet he says, but now he commands all men everywhere to repent. Acts 17:30 Because He has appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom He has ordained; whereof He has given assurance unto all men, in that He has raised Him from the dead. Acts 17:31 But let us look over again what has been said.

(Recapitulation.) (b) And while Paul waited, etc. Acts 17:16 It is providentially ordered that against his will he stays there, while waiting for those others. (a) His spirit, it says, within him παρωξύνετο . It does not mean there anger or exasperation: just as elsewhere it says, There was παροξυσμὸς between them. Acts 15:30 (c) Then what is παρωξύνετο? Was roused: for the gift is far removed from anger and exasperation. He could not bear it, but pined away. He reasoned therefore in the synagogue, etc. Acts 17:17 Observe him again reasoning with Jews. By devout persons he means the proselytes. For the Jews were dispersed everywhere before (mod. text since) Christ's coming, the Law indeed being henceforth, so to say, in process of dissolution, but at the same time (the dispersed Jews) teaching men religion. But those prevailed nothing, save only that they got witnesses of their own calamities. (e) And certain philosophers, etc. Acts 17:18 How came they to be willing to confer with him? (They did it) when they saw others reasoning, and the man having repute (in the encounter). And observe straightway with overbearing insolence, some said, What would this babbler say? For the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit."
CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 38 on the Acts of the Apostles (Chrysostom)
 
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Daniel Marsh

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The Apostle Paul also, in writing to Titus, has used a line of the poet Epimenides: The Cretians are always liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. Titus 1:12 Half of which line was afterwards adopted by Callimachus. It is not surprising that a literal rendering of the words into Latin should fail to preserve the metre, seeing that Homer when translated into the same language is scarcely intelligible even in prose. In another epistle Paul quotes a line of Menander: Evil communications corrupt good manners. And when he is arguing with the Athenians upon the Areopagus he calls Aratus as a witness citing from him the words For we are also his offspring; Acts 17:28 in Greek τοῦ γὰρ καὶ γένος ἐσμεν, the close of a heroic verse. And as if this were not enough, that leader of the Christian army, that unvanquished pleader for the cause of Christ, skilfully turns a chance inscription into a proof of the faith. Acts 17:22 For he had learned from the true David to wrench the sword of the enemy out of his hand and with his own blade to cut off the head of the arrogant Goliath
CHURCH FATHERS: Letter 70 (Jerome)

These take and sanctify yourself with them and bestow on them, that they may shave their heads; and all will know that the things which they have heard of you are false, but that you yourself also walk keeping the law. Acts 21:20-24 And so for the good of those who were under the law, he trode under foot for a while the strict view which he had expressed: For I through the law am dead unto the law that I may live unto God; Galatians 2:19 and was driven to shave his head, and be purified according to the law and pay his vows after the Mosaic rites in the Temple. Do you ask also where for the good of those who were utterly ignorant of the law of God, he himself became as if without law? Read the introduction to his sermon at Athens where heathen wickedness was flourishing: As I passed by, he says, I saw your idols and an altar on which was written: To the unknown God; and when he had thus started from their superstition, as if he himself also had been without law, under the cloke of that profane inscription he introduced the faith of Christ, saying: What therefore you ignorantly worship, that declare I unto you. And after a little, as if he had known nothing whatever of the Divine law, he chose to bring forward a verse of a heathen poet rather than a saying of Moses or Christ, saying: As some also of your own poets have said: for we are also His offspring. And when he had thus approached them with their own authorities, which they could not reject, thus confirming the truth by things false, he added and said: Since then we are the offspring of God we ought not to think that the Godhead is like to gold or silver or stone sculptured by the art and device of man. But to the weak he became weak, when, by way of permission, not of command, he allowed those who could not contain themselves to return together again, 1 Corinthians 7:5 or when he fed the Corinthians with milk and not with meat, and says that he was with them in weakness and fear and much trembling.
CHURCH FATHERS: Conference 17 (John Cassian)
 
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