How do evolutionists view the pandemic?

Jonathan Walkerin

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In fact isn't evolution generally loathe to make predictions about future changes in organisms?

Evolution is a process so it is not going to make any predictions.

People can make predictions what kind of evolutionary changes might happen given certain conditions.

Say we colonize a planet with gravity 1.5 times of our own we might expect people’s physique drift towards shorter and stockier bodies with denser bones.

Given time evolution takes with natural selection in long lived mammals and the fact that we can with technology and social behavior pretty much discard these kinds of evolutionary trends if we choose to and instead just bioengineer our own.

Where we will end up with that is anyone’s guess.
 
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coffee4u

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How do creationists view it? Do they think that God just decided to create the virus in December last year because He was bored, because of course it couldn't have possibly evolved?

(One good strawman deserves another...)

We believe the world is cursed and groaning
Romans 8:22-24
22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
Perfection to more and more chaos/degeneration/disease is what we expect.

Mankind not being good caretakers of the world is adding to it.
Destruction of habitat and loss of biodiversity are creating the perfect conditions for diseases like COVID-19 to emerge
This may be an evolutionary piece, but we agree that mankinds actions are contributing.
 
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Human tragedy, or natural culling of the sick and weak, survival of the fittest?
The question isn't phrased well, but you seem to be asking how the acceptance of mainstream science would educate our response to a pandemic.

I'll set aside the implicit moral questions of the relative value of human life to economic considerations, as those are not within the realm of evolution.

As for how science would shape our approach to getting through the pandemic with minimal mortality/morbidity, epidemiology would have a bigger impact. We'd focus on reducing transmission (R0) and death rate (CFR). Towards that end, testing, contact tracing, social distancing, wearing masks, etc are all aimed primarily at reducing transmission. Resource sharing across states (and preferably internationally) could also help reduce the death rate.

As far as a final resolution to the crisis, there's 4 possible ways that could go:
1. Infection rates remain high until Herd immunity is reached, allowing the virus to subside on it's own
2. a vaccine is developed, allowing us to move towards herd immunity without as many people becoming sick
3. Transmission rates can be lowered such that the virus dies out without a herd immunity threashhold being reached (Drop R0 below 1)
4. All other options fail and virus becomes endemic.

Out of these, #1 and #4 are really bad options because a lot of people get sick under them. The best would be #3, but that is also going to be VERY difficult to pull off. Luckily, even if we can't actually eliminate the virus this way, efforts in this direction also "flatten the curve" helping prevent our exceeding treatment capacity. Also, it allows more time to develop a vaccine before more people get sick.

If we are looking ONLY at how evolution would impact these, we should prepare for the possibility that the virus may mutate too rapidly for the full eradication of the virus. We would likely still benefit from a vaccine even so, much like we can't eradicate influenza, but through vaccination, we can reduce annual deaths.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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The question isn't phrased well, but you seem to be asking how the acceptance of mainstream science would educate our response to a pandemic.

I'll set aside the implicit moral questions of the relative value of human life to economic considerations, as those are not within the realm of evolution.

As for how science would shape our approach to getting through the pandemic with minimal mortality/morbidity, epidemiology would have a bigger impact. We'd focus on reducing transmission (R0) and death rate (CFR). Towards that end, testing, contact tracing, social distancing, wearing masks, etc are all aimed primarily at reducing transmission. Resource sharing across states (and preferably internationally) could also help reduce the death rate.

As far as a final resolution to the crisis, there's 4 possible ways that could go:
1. Infection rates remain high until Herd immunity is reached, allowing the virus to subside on it's own
2. a vaccine is developed, allowing us to move towards herd immunity without as many people becoming sick
3. Transmission rates can be lowered such that the virus dies out without a herd immunity threashhold being reached (Drop R0 below 1)
4. All other options fail and virus becomes endemic.

Out of these, #1 and #4 are really bad options because a lot of people get sick under them. The best would be #3, but that is also going to be VERY difficult to pull off. Luckily, even if we can't actually eliminate the virus this way, efforts in this direction also "flatten the curve" helping prevent our exceeding treatment capacity. Also, it allows more time to develop a vaccine before more people get sick.

If we are looking ONLY at how evolution would impact these, we should prepare for the possibility that the virus may mutate too rapidly for the full eradication of the virus. We would likely still benefit from a vaccine even so, much like we can't eradicate influenza, but through vaccination, we can reduce annual deaths.

The question wasn't 'what should we do about it', but how do we view it dispassionately, as per the choices given.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Can you define "survival of the fittest" as it relates to evolution?

Sure. That which is best at reproducing itself.

How do creationists view it? Yahweh's punishment for not crowning Trump King?

It is God's built-in punishment, like foolishly defying other laws that are meant to protect us.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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We believe the world is cursed and groaning
Romans 8:22-24
22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
Perfection to more and more chaos/degeneration/disease is what we expect.

Mankind not being good caretakers of the world is adding to it.
Destruction of habitat and loss of biodiversity are creating the perfect conditions for diseases like COVID-19 to emerge
This may be an evolutionary piece, but we agree that mankinds actions are contributing.

Eating bats doesn't help either. :sput:
 
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The question wasn't 'what should we do about it', but how do we view it dispassionately, as per the choices given.
The same way a creationist would view it dispassionately I suppose. I know clickbait sites like to tell you the best way to do random things 'according to science', but contrary to such clickbaity things, "science" doesn't proscribe the proper way to do things.

If you were consciously trying to become indifferent to human suffering, evolution wouldn't help you much. I suppose sociology or psychology might be applicable, but I'm not aware of any reliable method to induce sociopathy, nor would I imagine it's been studied.

If you mean instead, "how would it be best to ensure we are making decisions logically rather than emotionally in order to best utilize our resources," you'd want to approach it from a risk management point of view.
 
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SLP

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I've 'repeated'. ;)
So you haven't learned, but are tired of being told you're wrong?
You could say that.
Why doesn't god ever seem to punish the actual wrong doers? Wipes out a trailer park with a tornado because the gays (I am told by televangelists and Trump spiritual advisors). Was it a trailer park filled with gay people?
I saw a Trump cultist and Covid-19 denier that had ranted and raved about it being a hoax - got the Covid and died. Now THAT is what we should expect in terms of justice. But that happens so rarely.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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So you haven't learned, but are tired of being told you're wrong?

Survival of the fittest/best able to reproduce isn't limited to evolution; it just an fact of biology.

Why doesn't god ever seem to punish the actual wrong doers?

I think God wants us to punish our wrongdoers. If you don't take out your trash, soon you're living in a dump.
 
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SLP

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Survival of the fittest/best able to reproduce isn't limited to evolution; it just an fact of biology.
That literally makes no sense.
I think God wants us to punish our wrongdoers. If you don't take out your trash, soon you're living in a dump.
That is why Trump and all of his apparatus need to go, I suppose, since God isn't doing squat.
 
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