And did Josephus and Tacitus do this? Can you show me their sources? Did they even mention their sources?
Sure I have. But I've never done so about something this big. Remember, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
A third hand account that someone ate a sandwich a week ago is one thing. A third hand account of someone who could bring back dead people is another thing entirely.
Dunno, I haven't looked into it.
If there are primary sources from the time, not just hearsay, sure, I'd believe it.
It depends. There are events that would leave definite evidence behind. At times absence of evidence is evidence of absence. I can give several non-biblical examples that make this clear. The events of Genesis and Exodus as written in the Bible would have left clear evidence of those events behind. That we cannot find such evidence tells us that they do not appear to have happened.
Historians do need to be able to cite their sources to be credible. That is why historians evidence for Alexander the Great is much much stronger than evidence for Jesus. They do site earlier named eyewitnesses. Some of them eyewitness historians whose work did not survive the years. We do not see that with Jesus.
What is the aim of adding this information? I assume you think it somehow lends credence to the beliefs being persecuted. Emotional hyperbole is a very weak argument which is trivially turned back on the person using the argument. Christians have used what we in the 21st century consider to be horrific tortures and punishments, so claiming that the degree of unpleasantness of punishment in any way lends credence to the misdemeanor is a self-defeating argument.
We are not, so far as I know, discussing the truth of the Christian faith itself, but the extent to which the Bible and other sources constitute reliable documentary evidence of Jesus. The truth of the Christian faith does not depend upon the answer.Do you believe Jesus as a historical figure exist? If Jesus did not exist, how did Christianity and the church begin? by 12 men plotting a story? How did tens of thouands came to believe?
I never said there was only one correct thing in the bible. My point was that just because something is correct in the bible does not mean something else is as well. All claims need to be supported on their own, especially the supernatural ones.
We are not, so far as I know, discussing the truth of the Christian faith itself, but the extent to which the Bible and other sources constitute reliable documentary evidence of Jesus. The truth of the Christian faith does not depend upon the answer.
Correct. But that's not what we are talking about. We are talking about the reliability of the Bible and other sources as historical documents. (Saying "as far as I know" was just an attempt to subtly point out that you are not on topic.)As far as you know? ... I believe you know more than that.
The truth of Christianitydepends ENTIRELY on BOTH the exitence and resurrection of Jesus. Even if Jesus exists but did not overcome death, then Christainity is just teaching us to be be good, liek other religious or moral teachings. people.But Jesus overcome death means God save His Son from death and can do likewise for others who wanted the same salvation.
Yet another non sequitur. If you cannot address the post just say nothing.Do you believe Jesus as a historical figure exist? If Jesus did not exist, how did Christianity and the church begin? by 12 men plotting a story? How did tens of thouands came to believe?
I am fairly sure that Jesus did exist. My point was that the historical evidence for him is not very strong.What if the historians provide a first hand account? What sources would he need? THere was a well known historian SimaYi in teh China Han dysnasty. He is considered a very credible source. Does he need to cite sources?
Do you believe Jesus as a historical figure exist? If Jesus did not exist, how did Christianity and the church begin? by 12 men plotting a story? How did tens of thouands came to believe?
I suppose a biblical event 4000 years ago with no evidence woud be a lie. But a non-blical event 5000 years ago with no evidence would not be a lie.
DO you believe Jesus as a historical figure exist? If Jesus did not exist, how did Christianity and the church begin? by 12 men plotting a story? How did tens of thouands came to believe?
Ok, but what is the point if you cannot support it with good evidence?You haven't read one of my previosu post where I write about a supernatural event that cannot be supported by science or claims. There are many such events in this part of the world. I will post in soon when I have time.
When did Josephus live?Why would Josephus need sources if he is the source himself?
Because the Han dynasty lasted over four hundred years.In the Han dynasty of CHina, there was a hsitrorian SimaYi who was recognized at a credible historian. Why would he need sources?
If Xenu did not exist, why are there ten million Scientologists?If Jesus did not exist, how did Christianity and the church begin? by 12 men plotting a story? How did tens of thouands came to believe?
That's not true. Who ever told you that?It is agreed (by the scientific community and the faith community) whatever happened for life to begin ... happened out in the cosmos ....
Probably the same way all the other world wide religions got started. People will believe anything is it makes them feel better.If Jesus did not exist, how did Christianity and the church begin? by 12 men plotting a story? How did tens of thouands came to believe?