Should a Christian use a VPN or is that sort of like lying?

Should a Christian use a VPN or is that sort of like lying?

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shineyourlight

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Sorry, I don't believe that's how things work. While we do have God's grace to be forgiven of sin, what you suggest sounds like one may be turning God's grace is not a license for immorality (See: Jude 1:4). Titus 2:11-12 says God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world. Hebrews 12:14 says that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.

Proverbs 28:13 says he the confesses and forsake sin shall have mercy.
Believers need to battle against sin, and they cannot justify it.

"And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" (1 Peter 4:18).

To get a full comprehensive picture of salvation, check out this thread here:

The Four Aspects of Salvation.
I was joking. I clearly know that with grace, we shouldn't continue on sinning.

But also telling me I should be going to the hell of fire is also not how it works ;)

I've been saved by grace and His mercy, and saved from the wrath of God, and I deserve hell, just like you :p

I am thankful for His mercy, His grace, and His salvation when I did not deserve it.

I stick with my statement about a VPN and I stick to the Bible of what it says about yours and my salvation.

But yeah, I'm not going to continue this. It just doesn't seem like you're willing to listen to others and there's no point in continuing. :)

Hugs to you!
 
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Hammster

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Summary of this thread


OP: Hey everyone. Is this a sin?

Everyone: No!

OP: Well, you’re wrong. It’s a sin for me, so it must be a sin for you, too.
 
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Should you lock your door, the handle on the door implies the door is always open. But the reality is that were it so thieves and muggers could come in to hurt and steal things from you and your family.

A door to most homes these days has a lock and it is visible on the door so that a person can put their key into it so as to unlock the door so as to open it. A VPN in my experience forces you to lie about your IP address or server location by you selecting the name of a real city that is not the location of where your server or IP address is really at. So no. This analogy does not fit or work in your defense for a person to lie using a VPN.

You said:
When walking down a street with 10000 dollars to buy a car do you carry it out in the open or conceal it in a bag or a pocket so that people are not tempted to steal it from you.

Hiding and lying are two different things. There is a vast difference between hiding an object vs. say lying. If you carried that 10,000 dollars and you came across a poor old veteran with no legs crying for food, and he asked if you had any money, would you lie that you had no money because it would be too risky to help him because there was a shady guy following you? What if there was no shady guy following you, and it was a poor family that was younger but they looked really poor? Would you lie to protect your money? I know. Most would strive to be clever with their words and not lie. But if the poor family was on the other side of a dangerous river or highway that is impossible to cross to help them, and they are too far away for you to speak to each other, your carrying the money in hidden place on your person is not lying to them or to others in public. You are merely concealing or hiding something. But if you ran into these poor people and in the heat, and they asked you for money, you cannot lie to them that you have no money because it would be lying. Hiding the money is not lying to them.

So no. Not the same thing.

With a VPN, you cannot choose an option that simply encrypts or hides your IP address. You have to actively lie and give a fake location of a real city that your server is not actually in in order to protect yourself. Lying these days is not that big of sin to people. But if we were to talk about say.... fornication (sex outside of marriage), it then changes the dynamic. For in our culture sex outside of marriage for a Christian is a... "no," "no." This is good. Well, there are Christian liberals out there. Anyways, my point is that would it be okay for a Christian to fornicate in order to protect themselves online or to protect themselves physically from outside attackers? While fornication is a more serious sin, the sin of lying is equally condemning as the sin of fornication.

You said:
We do not live in the New Jerusalem yet!

It is my prayer and hope that my preaching the Word will help a select few to be in the New Jerusalem. But only God knows all things. Granted, all glory goes to Him anyways. I am nothing. He is everything. For the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus because it was Jesus doing the good work through them ultimately (under their free will cooperation).

In any event, whether you agree with me or not;
May God's love and peace be upon you today.
Stay faithful to the Lord Jesus Christ, no matter what happens in the outside world (Whether it be famine, a financial depression, a diseased location). Let the love of God shine amongst this dark and dying world. Declare the love of Jesus to all and salvation in Him with His death, burial, and resurrection. Preach His good ways and commandments in these last days.

Please be well in Christ Jesus.

Sincerely,

~ J.
 
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In that context yes it would be wrong. But using a VPN for security purposes is different. It's all in how you decide to use it. If I give you a bat you can choose to use it to play baseball or you could choose to beat someone with it.

I honestly would like to use a VPN, but my conscience of knowing basic right and wrong will not allow me to use it because it forces me to participate in a lie by getting me to choose a fake server location in a city where my server is not actually at. It would be different if there was an option that just encrypted or hides your location. If this was the case, then I would have a VPN and use that option. But seeing it does not have this option to hide vs. lie, I am forced to not use one because I do not want to lie before the Lord my God. Is using a VPN really worth losing my soul over? Why take the chance? Christians in the early church were persecuted. They were not overly concerned about their life in regards to spreading the truth. But today, I believe we are living in the last days as mentioned in 2 Timothy 3:1-9. So things are different indeed. All I can do is pray and hope that one day you will see where I am coming from.
 
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I was joking. I clearly know that with grace, we shouldn't continue on sinning.

But also telling me I should be going to the hell of fire is also not how it works ;)

I've been saved by grace and His mercy, and saved from the wrath of God, and I deserve hell, just like you :p

I am thankful for His mercy, His grace, and His salvation when I did not deserve it.

I stick with my statement about a VPN and I stick to the Bible of what it says about yours and my salvation.

But yeah, I'm not going to continue this. It just doesn't seem like you're willing to listen to others and there's no point in continuing. :)

Hugs to you!

Jesus said narrow is the way and few be there that find it.
All I can do is pray, and encourage you to check out these threads here to learn more about what the Bible really teaches.

Is all that is required for salvation is believing in Christ and Him crucified?

The Four Aspects of Salvation.

The Law of Moses is no more, but that does not mean the New Covenant is without many commands.

What are the BIG things in the Bible we must accept as Christians? (Please no debating or criticism)

Not all sin is the same.

Peace, and blessings be unto you in the Lord.
 
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Does a VPN require me to lie about my server location?
Yes, or no?

The answer is clearly obvious.
There is no encryption or hide option with a VPN (that I am aware of).
If there is, I would like to know.
Anyways, we know lying is a sin that the Bible condemns.

So it is okay to lie about one's server location to protect oneself online?
Would it be okay to fornicate to protect oneself online?
Would it be okay to steal in order to protect oneself online?

I think people do not realize the gravity of the sin of lying.
The Bible condemns lying (Revelation 21:8, Revelation 22:14-15, 1 Timothy 4:2, Acts of the Apostles 5:3-5).

A person needs to show me how a VPN is not lying simply and easily.
So far, nobody has done that so far.
Believe me. I want to use a VPN. But I cannot.
For it forces me to lie about my server location.

Anyways, may God's love shine upon you all;
And please stay safe out there.
 
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Isilwen

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Does a VPN require me to lie about my server location?
Yes, or no?

The answer is clearly obvious.
There is no encryption or hide option with a VPN (that I am aware of).
If there is, I would like to know.
Anyways, we know lying is a sin that the Bible condemns.

So it is okay to lie about one's server location to protect oneself online?
Would it be okay to fornicate to protect oneself online?
Would it be okay to steal in order to protect oneself online?

I think people do not realize the gravity of the sin of lying.
The Bible condemns lying (Revelation 21:8, Revelation 22:14-15, 1 Timothy 4:2, Acts of the Apostles 5:3-5).

A person needs to show me how a VPN is not lying simply and easily.
So far, nobody has done that so far.
Believe me. I want to use a VPN. But I cannot.
For it forces me to lie about my server location.

Anyways, may God's love shine upon you all;
And please stay safe out there.

You are taking the lying thing too far.

The answer to your question is no, flat out no.

You have been given plenty of reasons and you have chosen to basically say not good enough. This is a pattern in your posts. One only need to read through the dating post to see that you will never accept any reason unless it is your own.

Your asking a question in this thread and the dating thread is disingenuous. You are not looking to learn, you are more looking to drag people into your way of thinking and into your burden of sin.

It's a sin for me, therefore it's a sin for you is common in your threads. Yet, God hasn't said one way or the other on the matter.
 
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You are taking the lying thing too far.

The answer to your question is no, flat out no.

You have been given plenty of reasons and you have chosen to basically say not good enough. This is a pattern in your posts. One only need to read through the dating post to see that you will never accept any reason unless it is your own.

Your asking a question in this thread and the dating thread is disingenuous. You are not looking to learn, you are more looking to drag people into your way of thinking and into your burden of sin.

It's a sin for me, therefore it's a sin for you is common in your threads. Yet, God hasn't said one way or the other on the matter.

But notice how you do not refer me to a post of a person who has adequately explained it, or to one of your own previous posts. That is because it has not been explained. Notice how you are not explaining things now. You are just saying, "It's not lying" as your proof. Many have tried to appeal to Romans 14. But lying is not the context of Romans 14. The ceremonial laws of the OT is the context.

Is there a VPN that merely hides my IP address instead of me having to say that my server location is in a real place of which is it is not? Let me give you an analogy.

Do you think it is okay to say to your employer that you live in another city to protect yourself?
How is that different?
Do not good people monitor the activities of others on the internet?
Is good determined by those who are watching us?
Did not Paul say the following?

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

Paul also said,
"Providing for honest things, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of men."
(2 Corinthians 8:21).
 
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Isilwen

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But notice how you do not refer me to a post of a person who has adequately explained it, or to one of your own previous posts. That is because it has not been explained. Notice how you are not explaining things now. You are just saying, "It's not lying" as your proof. Many have tried to appeal to Romans 14. But lying is not the context of Romans 14. The ceremonial laws of the OT is the context.

Is there a VPN that merely hides my IP address instead of me having to say that my server location is in a real place of which is it is not? Let me give you an analogy.

Do you think it is okay to say to your employer that you live in another city to protect yourself?
How is that different?
Do not good people monitor the activities of others on the internet?
Is good determined by those who are watching us?
Did not Paul say the following?

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

Paul also said,
"Providing for honest things, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of men."
(2 Corinthians 8:21).

You're lost and I suggest you find a priest or pastor to help you find your way back.
 
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Tom 1

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I honestly would like to use a VPN, but my conscience of knowing basic right and wrong will not allow me to use it because it forces me to participate in a lie by getting me to choose a fake server location in a city where my server is not actually at. It would be different if there was an option that just encrypted or hides your location. If this was the case, then I would have a VPN and use that option. But seeing it does not have this option to hide vs. lie, I am forced to not use one because I do not want to lie before the Lord my God. Is using a VPN really worth losing my soul over? Why take the chance? Christians in the early church were persecuted. They were not overly concerned about their life in regards to spreading the truth. But today, I believe we are living in the last days as mentioned in 2 Timothy 3:1-9. So things are different indeed. All I can do is pray and hope that one day you will see where I am coming from.

I think you are not getting the broad picture here. Shunting electrons around from one place to another to exchange data is not like hiding out in the woods. It's not real - the locations are not real things in any sense that matters - just a collection of coded addresses that are recognised by other machines. Nobody gives a hoot where you are physically when you are on the internet, it is of no importance unless you are carrying out some kind of transaction, in which case you will supply your address. When filling out your address to have something delivered, would you feel the need to add a note saying 'this is my address but my IP address says I'm somewhere else'? As I think you'll agree that would be of no interest to anyone. It is completely irrelevant to anything at all apart from functioning as one mode of limited privacy protection.
Have you ripped all of the curtains out of your house, in case someone thinks you are in the kitchen when you are actually in the living room? That's the kind of idea this is comparable with.
 
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RDKirk

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What would Jesus do?
Can you picture Jesus using a VPN?
Are we not to follow Christ's example?

He did.

Therefore Jesus told them, “My time is not yet here; for you any time will do. The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil. You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.

However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret.
Now at the festival the Jewish leaders were watching for Jesus and asking, “Where is he?”-- John 7
 
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Ada Lovelace

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Should a Christian use a VPN or is that sort of like lying?

VPN is a virtual Private Network that attempts to tell others that you are in another location other than the one that you are at.

If you are still unsure of what a VPN is, here is a trailer promotion for a VPN company (Promoted on a Christian website).


Basically if you live in Denver Colorado, and you wanted to use a VPN (while you surf the internet), you would choose another city to show other people online that you actually were surfing the internet from a different city or location like say: Tampa, Florida.

Nearly every member of this forum uses an alias unaffiliated with their actual name to protect their identity. Do you perceive that to be lying? Presumably you do not since you have also prudently chosen a name that is reflective of your personality while not revealing who you are as a person. That is the customary choice to make on any site where you're engaging with strangers, vs. on your own social media where you're interacting with people in your own life just through an online format instead of face-to-face.

As with virtually every action we take, intention shapes morality. Using a VPN to pursue illegal or unethical activities, such as pirating games or movies online or bullying and harassing others without detection is unequivocally wrong. But there's a multitude of ethical and sensible reasons for using a VPN that make it not only acceptable but responsible, especially in the current era when many employees and students are working from home while quarantining. It's only possible to access restricted resources for my university with our VPN installed and enabled. For the libraries you just need EZProxy the majority of the time, but with more proprietary content you cannot access it unless on campus and with the specific permissions, or via our VPN.
 
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Blade

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I can see how it is lying. We all know the "hiding/masking" your IP. Thats not misleading lying? Not the same but.. you rent this truck.. the bumper has a dent now. You just stand in front of the dent. The man checks the car.. no problems. You didn't say anything....you just stood infront of the dent...hid it.. masked it. I said.. he as a pastor.. how wrong that was.. praise God..

Now.. you go to some company that is going to let you use a new IP address as your won. I don't see that as lying..hiding. To use it to download things you don't want your IP to see you doing.. hello I have done that.. forgive me Father. That is wrong. To know that Google facebook others SAY they don't take your info.... if you searched you know they do and others... i have no problem using an VPN.

Christ..when they tried to get Him.. one could says.. hid himself.. on and on.. misleading was it? Never....see its where your heart is. What ANYONE else does with a VPN.. means nothing.. the Father looks at our heart..why we are doing it. The fact one doubts from the start... I would say.. then dont use it
 
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John Robie

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Reading this morning and came across this verse. Seems somewhat appropriate for this thread.


For we are not bold to class or compare ourselves with some of those who commend themselves; but when they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are without understanding.
— 2 Corinthians 10:12
 
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Jesse Johnson

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If you most know, at the beginning of the thread, I was a little unsure about the topic. But after discussing the issue, and researching it more, I became more certain on the topic as time grew on vs. the beginning of my initial OP. People can later be more convinced of something as time goes on. There was no deception on my part (of which you imply).

Anyways, what makes you think that a VPN is not lying?
Have you ever used one before?
Try not to be alarmed, but I'm using one right now.
 
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