Did jesus pray to the trinity or only the father?
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GoldenKingGaze
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Heb 1:4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”?
Heb 1:6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God's angels worship him.”
Heb 1:7 Of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire.”
Heb 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
Heb 1:10 And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
Heb 1:11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,
Heb 1:12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”
Heb 1:13 And to which of the angels has he ever said, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. ESV
No angel is called "son". And all things, not all other things were created through the Son. The Son was given a human spirit, soul and body and a human like nature.
Jesus came into being 2000 years ago, but the greater part of Him the Son or the word, later made flesh as in John 1, was always there, He is as in Isaiah 9:6 the Father or creator of eternity. The Son is self existent with the Father.
The characters in Job and Genesis 6 are called sons of God. They were obviously in God's image and likeness. Angels may not have real bodies. They depicted with wings, at least sometimes. Like Adam in the beginning, they have both genders in them, admitting I am not sure of that. Jesus said they are neither given nor taken in marriage. It is good for them to be alone, whereas Adam needed a help meet. Some holy angels are depicted as having wheels with eyes on them... from Ezekiel.
Angels may appear human but lack internal qualities to relate to God as sons. Like some creatures cannot speak or speak an unintelligible language like whales.
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Again, just to correct your misunderstanding friend.
The bible clearly teaches that the righteous angels are all sons, God's sons.
(KJV) Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
(Byington) Job 1:6 And one day the angels came to present themselves before Jehovah, and the Adversary too came among them.
(KJV) Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
(Byington) Job 2:1 And one day the angels came to present themselves before Jehovah, and the Adversary too came among them, and presented himself before Jehovah.
(KJV) Job 38:4-7 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. . . When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
(Byington) Job 38:4-7 Where were you when I laid the foundation of earth? tell, if you have competent knowledge. . . While the morning stars shouted together and all the angels hurrahed?
Be well and be safe.
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GoldenKingGaze
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English versions can be interpretations with errors. The KJV here is best. The sons are not angels or aliens, they are God's creations. The Son created the worlds.
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. KJV
So when the heads of worlds came to God, and ours was supplanted by Satan, although Satan is not a son at all, he appeared instead of Job or Adam.
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GoldenKingGaze
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As from Hebrews they are not ever called sons. They are all only servants, heads of the house until the saints come of age, and then we will judge them.
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Thank you for your opinion friend, i,e not backed by the authority of scripture.
By the way, Jesus was also a servant, the one prophesied in Isa chapter 42.
(KJV) Isa 42:1 Behold my servant (Jesus)*, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Stay well and safe.
* brackets mine.
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All sons of God are begotten of their father. As are those of human fathers.
Gen 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
Not only that, but the term "Only Begotten" is not unique to Jesus either.
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
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Are you serious? You quoted passages showing that various men in the Bible had only begotten Sons, I asked you to show me where is the only begotten Son of God used for anyone other than Christ, yes it is unique to Christ and you’ve been refuted from the scriptures you claim to uphold, but choose to corrupt with your own heresy.
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No you didn't, you claimed that the angelic sons of God were not begotten sons like christ. I gave you scriptures that teach that all sons are begotten of their father's. "Begotten" and "Only begotten" are terms not unique to christ but are also used of humans. Angels are also begotten sons of their father as God's sons. I suggest you research the very specific meaning of the term "Only begotten" and why it is used of christ.
Question: How is Isaac referred to as Abraham's "Only begotten son" when Ishmael was his first born?
When you can answer this correctly, you will understand why Christ being called the "Only Begotten" son of God does not mean he was the only son begotten of God.
Stay well and safe.
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GoldenKingGaze
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So you think the angels are called sons of God?
That those called sons of God in Job are holy angels?
How do you explain Hebrews' verses against angels ever being called sons?
Looking at the verse in Colossians 1:16 about the Son being the one through whom all thing were created, not all "other" things. The original scripts do not have the word "other" also see John 1:1-4. Do you suppose there was Michael self existent with the Father?
Do you think our world alone has sons of God on it?
Do you think Michael alone could defeat all the dark angels and spirits of death? And raise Himself to life as He said in John ch 2?
I also believe Jesus was a servant, also a prophet, priest and king. He was and is the Son, the holy one of Israel. This is important you see as our faith must be in God or we may just miss out on eternal life after death that is Heaven. If we put our faith in Michael. Peace to you and all readers.
1Ti 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe. ESV
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No, I know they are, because the bible clearly says so.
(KJV) Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
(Byington) Job 2:1 And one day the angels came to present themselves before Jehovah, and the Adversary too came among them, and presented himself before Jehovah.
(Brenton) Job 2:1 And it came to pass on a certain day, that the angels of God came to stand before the Lord, and the devil came among them to stand before the Lord.
(CEV) Job 2:1 When the angels gathered around the LORD again, Satan was there with them,
Yes, because the bible clearly says so.
(KJV) Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
(Byington) Job 2:1 And one day the angels came to present themselves before Jehovah, and the Adversary too came among them, and presented himself before Jehovah.
(Brenton) Job 2:1 And it came to pass on a certain day, that the angels of God came to stand before the Lord, and the devil came among them to stand before the Lord.
(CEV) Job 2:1 When the angels gathered around the LORD again, Satan was there with them,
Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”?
Hebrews does not say angels are never called sons, they clearly are as demostrated above. Hebrews says, God had never had occasion to say to any of the angels "“You are my Son, today I have begotten you”?" because none of the angels had had to come to the earth to be born as a human son of God and then at his baptism be born again by the anointing of Holy Spirit becoming a Spirit Begotten son of God so that God could now in effect say “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”?"” or Heb 1:5 For example, to which one of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son; today I have become your father”?
Hebrews quotes the prophetic Psalm 2:7 concerning the future Messiah that Jesus would become God's son and God would become his father. (future tense)
Psalm 2:7 Let me proclaim the decree of Jehovah; He said to me: “You are my son; Today I have become your father.
Matt 3:16,17 After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water; and look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw God’s spirit descending like a dove and coming upon him.17 Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”
Mark 1:11 And a voice came out of the heavens: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.”
Luke 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying: “This is my Son, the one who has been chosen. Listen to him.”
Peace and health to you also friend.
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GoldenKingGaze
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Job 2:1 mentions not angels but from Hebrew "bane Elohim" sons of God. And it mentions the "Earth" with emphasis in context as below:
Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:2 And the LORD said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”
Job 2:3 And the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil? He still holds fast his integrity, although you incited me against him to destroy him without reason.”
With Strong's Numbers.
Job 2:1 Again there wasH1961 a dayH3117 when the sonsH1121 of GodH430 cameH935 to present themselvesH3320 beforeH5921 the LORD,H3068 and SatanH7854 cameH935 alsoH1571 amongH8432 them to present himselfH3320 beforeH5921 the LORD.H3068 KJV
The angels are not fairly described as formed in God's image and likeness. They as I said earlier cannot reproduce, they are not marrying creatures. Neither given or taken in marriage. Not sons and daughters. Matthew 22:30.
Nowhere in the Bible are angels called sons and daughters.
The begotten Son was always there with God not created and not all other things but all things were created through Him. And He becomes the Son, because the Father Son concept was glorious from the start. And God was pleased with it. So the One of Elohim, which is a plurality, was begotten or was considered the Son, later to be one of many.
So through Jesus' sacred blood we can become sons of the Father. But not by an angel's.
Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:2 And the LORD said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”
Job 2:3 And the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil? He still holds fast his integrity, although you incited me against him to destroy him without reason.”
With Strong's Numbers.
Job 2:1 Again there wasH1961 a dayH3117 when the sonsH1121 of GodH430 cameH935 to present themselvesH3320 beforeH5921 the LORD,H3068 and SatanH7854 cameH935 alsoH1571 amongH8432 them to present himselfH3320 beforeH5921 the LORD.H3068 KJV
The angels are not fairly described as formed in God's image and likeness. They as I said earlier cannot reproduce, they are not marrying creatures. Neither given or taken in marriage. Not sons and daughters. Matthew 22:30.
Nowhere in the Bible are angels called sons and daughters.
The begotten Son was always there with God not created and not all other things but all things were created through Him. And He becomes the Son, because the Father Son concept was glorious from the start. And God was pleased with it. So the One of Elohim, which is a plurality, was begotten or was considered the Son, later to be one of many.
So through Jesus' sacred blood we can become sons of the Father. But not by an angel's.
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GoldenKingGaze
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Hebrews ch 1. KJV with notes.
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
The Son is more than a prophet. Part of the Creator, and receives all Creations' good.
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Only Jesus could overcome all sin for mankind. He is equal to the Father, just like His Father. Glorious God the Son. From Isaiah 9:6 above time. The Son does not come after His Father. Not moment to moment, but above time and to use an oxymoron, before time, as creator of time. He upholds creation by His power. No angel can.
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
In Philippians 2 the Son counts not equality with God something to be grasped but takes on the form of a servant, which He rises above as an obedient victorious Son. "They" all angels are below the Son.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
No angels was ever called a son. This is not to say, He was an angel that was always called a son. For an angel to be called a son the Father would have to make an exception. He doesn't. Saint Michael was a servant and was never begotten as a Son. He is still only a servant. Perhaps prince of angels.
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Only God accepts worship. There are no exceptions. All angels including Michael worship Him.
Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Jesus Christ becomes King. Not only a minister, an angel. Jesus rises above the servant kind. Above Michael...
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Jesus succeeded in humble times of setting for us the example of obedience and was rewarded.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
God the Son, now also called Jesus, was Creator.
Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Heb 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
The angels serve us until we come of age as saints to inherit the house. The right hand throne is equal with the Father's not below.
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
The Son is more than a prophet. Part of the Creator, and receives all Creations' good.
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Only Jesus could overcome all sin for mankind. He is equal to the Father, just like His Father. Glorious God the Son. From Isaiah 9:6 above time. The Son does not come after His Father. Not moment to moment, but above time and to use an oxymoron, before time, as creator of time. He upholds creation by His power. No angel can.
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
In Philippians 2 the Son counts not equality with God something to be grasped but takes on the form of a servant, which He rises above as an obedient victorious Son. "They" all angels are below the Son.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
No angels was ever called a son. This is not to say, He was an angel that was always called a son. For an angel to be called a son the Father would have to make an exception. He doesn't. Saint Michael was a servant and was never begotten as a Son. He is still only a servant. Perhaps prince of angels.
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Only God accepts worship. There are no exceptions. All angels including Michael worship Him.
Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Jesus Christ becomes King. Not only a minister, an angel. Jesus rises above the servant kind. Above Michael...
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Jesus succeeded in humble times of setting for us the example of obedience and was rewarded.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
God the Son, now also called Jesus, was Creator.
Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Heb 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
The angels serve us until we come of age as saints to inherit the house. The right hand throne is equal with the Father's not below.
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None of the verses you quoted refer to angels, but men. Give me one verse that applies the title “Only begotten Son of God” to anyone other then Christ. You have failed to do that. Show me one verse where anyone other then Christ is called begotten of God. Isaac was called Abraham’s only begotten Son because Ishmael had already left the household of Abraham at the time along with his mother the bond servant Hagar, also Isaac would be the one to inherit the heavenly covenant not Ishmael which is why he is called the “Only Begotten Son of Abraham.” Christ is called the “Only Begotten Son of God” because he is Begotten of the Father from the same essence before all of creation thus is true God from true God.
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Oh dear,
Oh dear, what babel = confusion.
Onwards and upwards to pastures greener to be more productive with our time in finding our shepherd Jesus' sheep.
keep well and safe.
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As you have no idea how I pray your first comment is nonsense.
Your second comment totally missed how the religious authorities viewed Jesus's saying, Your Sins are forgiven.'
They knew that only God can forgive sins.
So Jesus in saying 'Your sins are forgiven.' was claiming to be God.
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Obviously if you’ve filled your mind with heresy Orthodoxy will seem like babel and confusion to you, and you’ve offered no reply to my challenge.
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GoldenKingGaze
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I take it you feel that the angels are sons of God, and that Michael was a son who was begotten as well, specially to be sent to Earth. How can a billion people receive Michael into their hearts? Does he accept worship? How was he able to defeat all of Hell alone? And raise himself from the dead? How could he be the one through whom all things were created? Why add the word "other"? How can He be an angel if Hebrews 1:13 asks "to which of the angels does He say sit at my right hand"...? How can He be an angel who sits on equal plane to the right of God Jesus' Father?
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miknik5
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CHRIST came to show us the FATHER...HE walked in our humanity and modeled for us the EXACT relationship a son of GOD is to have with THE FATHER who is in Heaven...
And CHRIST alone had all authority to show/teach/reveal THE FATHER because HE came forth from GOD...
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