LDS The Futile Attempt by Mormons to Earn God's Grace

Rescued One · Apr 23, 2020

LDS Grace Must be Earned

The Mormon will quote James 2:22 in defense of the notion that man can perfect their faith by their works. Humans can't do that.

By works faith is made complete but our works are filthy rags apart from Christ.

Philippians 1:6
Humans get zero brownie points; we can't earn God's grace.

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

2 Corinthians 3:5
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

Mormons glorify themselves and when my eyes were opened, it was devastating news! Their highest god is waiting for them to earn each blessing; then he is their prisoner.

D&C 82:10. “I, the Lord, Am Bound When Ye Do What I Say”
"I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise." (Doc. and Cov. 82:10.)

Mormons judge non-temple Mormons as less worthy based on the teachings of Joseph Smith. The arrogance is unchristlike, egotistical and not biblical.

“There is no such thing as a second chance to gain salvation. This life is the time and the day of our probation. After this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.”
Bruce R. McConkie, The Seven Deadly Heresies
LDS Talks: The Seven Deadly Heresies by Elder Bruce R. McConkie - mormonikirkko - mormonit

Basil the Great · Apr 23, 2020

I am not here to debate, not at all. However, I would point out that when my fellow Protestants quote Scripture in defense of faith over works, they almost always quote Paul's letters and not the words of Jesus in the Gospels. Independent religious scholars usually state that Paul emphasized faith, while Jesus emphasized works/deeds of love and mercy. I am not saying that there is a direct contradiction between the two, but there certainly is a big difference in emphasis.

Having said this, I am not a LDS and do not post here in defense of their teachings. Peace and have a wonderful day.

He is the way · Apr 23, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
LDS Grace Must be Earned

The Mormon will quote James 2:22 in defense of the notion that man can perfect their faith by their works. Humans can't do that.

By works faith is made complete but our works are filthy rags apart from Christ.

Philippians 1:6
Humans get zero brownie points; we can't earn God's grace.

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

2 Corinthians 3:5
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

Mormons glorify themselves and when my eyes were opened, it was devastating news! Their highest god is waiting for them to earn each blessing; then he is their prisoner.

D&C 82:10. “I, the Lord, Am Bound When Ye Do What I Say”
"I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise." (Doc. and Cov. 82:10.)

Mormons judge non-temple Mormons as less worthy based on the teachings of Joseph Smith. The arrogance is unchristlike, egotistical and not biblical.

“There is no such thing as a second chance to gain salvation. This life is the time and the day of our probation. After this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.”
Bruce R. McConkie, The Seven Deadly Heresies
LDS Talks: The Seven Deadly Heresies by Elder Bruce R. McConkie - mormonikirkko - mormonit

It is our DUTY to keep the commandments:

(New Testament | Luke 17:9 - 10)

9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

It is better to be a sheep than a goat:

(New Testament | Matthew 25:33 - 46)

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Rescued One · Apr 23, 2020

He is the way said:
It is our DUTY to keep the commandments:

You can't earn God's grace or your eternal life.

He is the way said:
It is better to be a sheep than a goat:

Who made the sheep and goats --- not us!

Luke 17:10
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

He is the way · Apr 23, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
You can't earn God's grace or your eternal life.

Who made the sheep and goats --- not us!

Luke 17:10
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

We need to keep the commandments in order to to know God, and to have eternal life. That is not an assumption, it is Biblical.

Rescued One · Apr 23, 2020

Basil the Great said:
I am not here to debate, not at all. However, I would point out that when my fellow Protestants quote Scripture in defense of faith over works, they almost always quote Paul's letters and not the words of Jesus in the Gospels. Independent religious scholars usually state that Paul emphasized faith, while Jesus emphasized works/deeds of love and mercy. I am not saying that there is a direct contradiction between the two, but there certainly is a big difference in emphasis.

Having said this, I am not a LDS and do not post here in defense of their teachings. Peace and have a wonderful day.

Without first being given faith and God's spirit the individual can't do works for God's glory. The heathen are not trying to glorify God. Jesus agrees with the entire Bible.

1 Corinthians 2
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Romans 8
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

(I haven't been associated with Protestants who don't love Jesus, so please don't paint us with a broad brush. You and I should love each other!)

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2 John 1:6
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Rescued One · Apr 23, 2020

He is the way said:
We need to keep the commandments in order to to know God, and to have eternal life. That is not an assumption, it is Biblical.

We need faith and God's Spirit. With His Spirit we walk in the LIGHT.

He is the way · Apr 23, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
We need faith and God's Spirit. With His Spirit we walk in the LIGHT.

We do need faith, but not dead faith. Faith without works can not save us. Neither will faith and works save us. Without the atonement we would all be lost. Therefore we need faith, works, and grace (the atonement) to save us. We get that grace through repentance, baptism and thereafter keeping the commandments. We also need to bring forth fruits meet for repentance. All of this is Biblical.

Ironhold · Apr 24, 2020

I seem to recall a certain bit from the Old Testament where a man went to the prophet of the day to be cured of his illness and was told that to bathe seven times in a specific river.

When he was told this, he balked. How dare he be asked to bathe in that river when the rivers back home were cleaner?

It was his servant who told him to get over himself and make it happen. After all, the servant reasoned, it was a very simple thing that was asked of him... when he had been so eager to be healed he'd have done something great and mighty just a moment ago.

All the man had to do was exert a little bit of effort to show that he had faith, and he'd have been healed. But he chose to bicker about what specifically was asked of him and so it almost didn't happen.

Rescued One · Apr 24, 2020

He is the way said:
We do need faith, but not dead faith. Faith without works can not save us. Neither will faith and works save us. Without the atonement we would all be lost. Therefore we need faith, works, and grace (the atonement) to save us. We get that grace through repentance, baptism and thereafter keeping the commandments. We also need to bring forth fruits meet for repentance. All of this is Biblical.

walking in the LIGHT of Christ is NOT dead faith! Christians don't have dead faith.You are speaking to Christians about dead faith. What you preach is a perversion of God's word. The Father is the One who gave His Son for us --- that is grace that we did not deserve. He loved us before we had faith in Christ. He brought us to Christ! We have His Spirit. I repeat, you can't earn God's grace! Those who are lost think grace can be earned. Those who follow Christ don't have dead faith.

(Frequent editing to correct typing errors).

He is the way · Apr 24, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
walking in the LIGHT of Christ is NOT dead faith! Christians don't have dead faith.You are speaking to Christians about dead faith. What you preach is a perversion of God's word. The Father is the One who gave His Son for us --- that is grace that we did not deserve. He loved us before we had faith in Christ. He brought us to Christ! We fave His Spirit. I repeat, you can't earn God's grace! Those who are lost think grace can be earned. Those who follow Christ don't have dead faith.

(New Testament | James 2:14 - 26)

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Rescued One · Apr 24, 2020

Good works are produced by God in the one to whom He gave faith. Every good and perfect gift comes from above. God doesn't give imperfect gifts. How many times must I tell you this? Are you still rejecting it?

Philippians 1:6
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Philippians 2:13
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

He is the way · Apr 24, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
Good works are produced by God in the one to whom He gave faith. Every good and perfect gift comes from above. God doesn't give imperfect gifts. How many times must I tell you this? Are you still rejecting it?

Philippians 1:6
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Philippians 2:13
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

These two verses are about the gospel working in the saints, that through obedience to the commandments of God they will do the deeds Christ taught them to do. The good Samaritan comes to mind. Jesus said:

(New Testament | Luke 10:36 - 37)

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Rescued One · May 4, 2020

Without the Spirit we don't understand spiritual things and we don't belong to Christ. The Bible does NOT say if you do X, Y, and Z, I will give you my Spirit.

We love Him because HE FIRST loved us. We follow Him and strive to keep His commandments. You Mormons come here trying to correct those who follow Christ. You also pretend that we need to be instructed to obey. We not only believe in Christ --- we also believe 2 Timothy 3:16 and that God directs our path ---- not Joseph Smith! Proverbs 3:5-6.

Christ's Church has a foundation that never needed to be replaced.

Mormons teach that non-Mormons are part of a great apostacy and are devoid of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Mormons teach that our baptisms are invalid. Mormons teach that we need to follow your leaders. Your leaders have been led astray. We won't follow them!

Rescued One · May 4, 2020

He is the way said:
These two verses are about the gospel working in the saints, that through obedience to the commandments of God they will do the deeds Christ taught them to do.

You are mistaken again. It is through God's grace that we obey.

1 Corinthians 15
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

He is the way · May 4, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
Without the Spirit we don't understand spiritual things and we don't belong to Christ. The Bible does NOT say if you do X, Y, and Z, I will give you my Spirit.

We love Him because HE FIRST loved us. We follow Him and strive to keep His commandments. You Mormons come here trying to correct those who follow Christ. You also pretend that we need to be instructed to obey. We not only believe in Christ --- we also believe 2 Timothy 3:16 and that God directs our path ---- not Joseph Smith! Proverbs 3:5-6.

Christ's Church has a foundation that never needed to be replaced.

Mormons teach that non-Mormons are part of a great apostacy and are devoid of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Mormons teach that our baptisms are invalid. Mormons teach that we need to follow your leaders. Your leaders have been led astray. We won't follow them!

You said: "The Bible does NOT say if you do X, Y, and Z, I will give you my Spirit."

It most certainly does:

(New Testament | John 14:15 - 18)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

(New Testament | 1 John 2:4 - 6)

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

He is the way · May 4, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
You are mistaken again. It is through God's grace that we obey.

1 Corinthians 15
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Disobedience to the commandments of God brings death:

(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 16)

1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rescued One · May 4, 2020

He is the way said:
We need to keep the commandments in order to to know God, and to have eternal life. That is not an assumption, it is Biblical.

Your god withholds his blessings until you've earned them. Our God is merciful and loving. We need to be born again/quickened. It's extremely sad that Mormons don't believe the truth:

Ephesians 2
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Because He gives us new life, we are turned from Satan unto God.

Rescued One · May 4, 2020

He is the way said:
We do need faith, but not dead faith. Faith without works can not save us. Neither will faith and works save us. Without the atonement we would all be lost. Therefore we need faith, works, and grace (the atonement) to save us. We get that grace through repentance, baptism and thereafter keeping the commandments. We also need to bring forth fruits meet for repentance. All of this is Biblical.

2 Corinthians 3:5
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

Eternal Life is a GIFT.

Paul understood that! You keep preaching your false gospel.

He is the way · May 5, 2020

Phoebe Ann said:
Your god withholds his blessings unril you've earned them. Our God is merciful and loving. We need to be born again/quickened. It's extremely sad that Mormons don't believe the truth:

Ephesians 2
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Because He gives us new life, we are turned from Satan unto God.

God is merciful and kind. He hopes the best for all of us. However there are people who have turned away from God:

(Old Testament | Isaiah 29:13)

13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

(Old Testament | Exodus 20:6)

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 15:13 - 14)

13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

LDS The Futile Attempt by Mormons to Earn God's Grace

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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