Are those who deny eternal punishment doomed to Hell?

FineLinen · Apr 22, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
Unless I can view the respective threads and sort out the facts for myself, it is just one person's word against another. I just side with scripture and that is all there is to it.

Put on your big boy pants Contender and disclose how the Father of all fathers glorious reputation is not made obnoxious by this dogma.

Saint Steven · Apr 22, 2020

FineLinen said:
Put on your big boy pants Contender and disclose how the Father of all fathers glorious reputation is not made obnoxious by this dogma.

Right.
What sort of father puts his children in the oven to discipline them?

Or I should say...
puts them in the oven turns it up to HIGH, locks them in, and then burns the house down on his way out of town, never to return. What kind of father?

AND...
does God really appreciate being character assassinated that way? Probably not.
It'll be "hell to pay" for the Damnationists. Every idle word... weeping and gnashing of teeth...

Saint Steven · Apr 22, 2020

FineLinen said:
Put on your big boy pants Contender and disclose how the Father of all fathers glorious reputation is not made obnoxious by this dogma.

Furthermore...
What does God do with his own enemies when Christ has taught us that it is godliness
to LOVE our enemies? (even the pagans and tax collectors do that)

What do the Damnationists claim that God will do to his enemies?

Matthew 5:43-48
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Der Alte · Apr 22, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Furthermore...
What does God do with his own enemies when Christ has taught us that it is godliness
to LOVE our enemies? (even the pagans and tax collectors do that)
What do the Damnationists claim that God will do to his enemies?
Matthew 5:43-48
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Was God loving His enemies when he destroyed all mankind except Noah and his family? Was God loving His enemies when He destroyed everyone in the Sodom, Gomorrah and the cities of the plain? Was God loving His enemies when He commanded Israel to go into the Canaanite cities and destroy all living things? In every case this included men, women, young, old children and infants.
Genesis 19:24-25, Genesis 7:23, Numbers 21:3, Deuteronomy 20:16-17, Deuteronomy 7:2, Deuteronomy 32:25

Genesis 19:24-25 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
Genesis 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Numbers 21:3 And the LORD hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities: and he called the name of the place Hormah.
Deuteronomy 20:16-17 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
Deuteronomy 7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
Deuteronomy 32:25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.

Contenders Edge · Apr 22, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Somehow this was interpreted as me saying I alone was done. It clearly says we. Yet he continues.

Only because you continue to respond to my posts, which has been YOUR choice.

Contenders Edge · Apr 22, 2020

Der Alter said:
Was God loving His enemies when he destroyed all mankind except Noah and his family? Was God loving His enemies when He destroyed everyone in the Sodom, Gomorrah and the cities of the plain? Was God loving His enemies when He commanded Israel to go into the Canaanite cities and destroy all living things? In every case this included men, women, young, old children and infants.
Genesis 19:24-25, Genesis 7:23, Numbers 21:3, Deuteronomy 20:16-17, Deuteronomy 7:2, Deuteronomy 32:25

Genesis 19:24-25 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
Genesis 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Numbers 21:3 And the LORD hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities: and he called the name of the place Hormah.
Deuteronomy 20:16-17 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
Deuteronomy 7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
Deuteronomy 32:25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.

It must be noted that God takes no pleasure in destroying anyone, even if they are wicked, but would rather that the wicked turn from their evil ways and walk the path of righteousness. (Ezek. 33:11) And because He takes no pleasure in destruction, have you ever considered how it must grieve Him every time sin and evil reach such a measure that it must be punished which requires the destruction of those whom He loves because they have set themselves to reject His love and the forgiveness offered to them through Christ?

Contenders Edge · Apr 22, 2020

FineLinen said:
Put on your big boy pants Contender and disclose how the Father of all fathers glorious reputation is not made obnoxious by this dogma.

Justice

http://www.online-literature.com/geo...en-sermons/31/

Unto You, O Lord, belongs mercy; for You render to every man according to his work. -Psl. 62:12-

Some of the translators make it kindness and goodness; but I presume there is no real difference among them as to the character of the word which here, in the English Bible, is translated mercy.

The religious mind, however, educated upon the theories yet prevailing in the so-called religious world, must here recognize a departure from the presentation to which they have been accustomed: to make the psalm speak according to prevalent theoretic modes, the verse would have to be changed thus:--

'To You, O Lord, belongs justice, for You render to every man according to his work.'

No one is attempting to replace mercy with justice in the cited passage but that does not change the fact that God is both a God of both mercy and justice, but what is of concern is that you seem to deny that God is a God of justice.

Contenders Edge · Apr 22, 2020

FineLinen said:
Put on your big boy pants Contender and disclose how the Father of all fathers glorious reputation is not made obnoxious by this dogma.

To which part of my response post is this addressing?

"Unless I can view the respective threads and sort out the facts for myself, it is just one person's word against another"?

or

"I just side with scripture and that is all there is to it"?

FineLinen · Apr 23, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
To which part of my response post is this addressing?

"Unless I can view the respective threads and sort out the facts for myself, it is just one person's word against another"?

or

"I just side with scripture and that is all there is to it"?

Saint Steven · Apr 23, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
It must be noted that God takes no pleasure in destroying anyone...

As evidenced by claiming that he created a forever burning hell with no hope of escape? Eternal conscious torment. A fury that would under natural circumstance kill someone (or render unconsciousness) immediately, is designed so as to keep the victim alive (and fully unconscious) in torture for all eternity.

No pleasure, you say?

Saint Steven · Apr 23, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
... And because He takes no pleasure in destruction, have you ever considered how it must grieve Him every time sin and evil reach such a measure that it must be punished which requires the destruction of those whom He loves because they have set themselves to reject His love and the forgiveness offered to them through Christ?

You describe a god who painted himself into a corner with his own ill-conceived plan. Left to wring his hands in regret. Powerless to undo what he has done to his whole creation. As if he didn't see it coming.

How many aspects of his divine character are violated in that theory?
- omniscience
- omnipotence
What else?

Contenders Edge · Apr 23, 2020

Saint Steven said:
As evidenced by claiming that he created a forever burning hell with no hope of escape? Eternal conscious torment. A fury that would under natural circumstance kill someone (or render unconsciousness) immediately, is designed so as to keep the victim alive (and fully unconscious) in torture for all eternity.

No pleasure, you say?

That is the penalty of sin that is never repented of.

Contenders Edge · Apr 23, 2020

Saint Steven said:
You describe a god who painted himself into a corner with his own ill-conceived plan. Left to wring his hands in regret. Powerless to undo what he has done to his whole creation. As if he didn't see it coming.

How many aspects of his divine character are violated in that theory?
- omniscience
- omnipotence
What else?

You calling the redemptive work of Christ a ill-conceived plan?

Saint Steven · Apr 23, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
That is the penalty of sin that is never repented of.

As usual. You didn't answer the question. Dogma isn't an answer.

Saint Steven said: ↑
As evidenced by claiming that he created a forever burning hell with no hope of escape? Eternal conscious torment. A fury that would under natural circumstance kill someone (or render unconsciousness) immediately, is designed so as to keep the victim alive (and fully unconscious) in torture for all eternity.

No pleasure, you say?

Saint Steven · Apr 23, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
You calling the redemptive work of Christ a ill-conceived plan?

Not at all.
Just calling you on your claim that he failed.

Saint Steven said: ↑
You describe a god who painted himself into a corner with his own ill-conceived plan. Left to wring his hands in regret. Powerless to undo what he has done to his whole creation. As if he didn't see it coming.

How many aspects of his divine character are violated in that theory?
- omniscience
- omnipotence
What else?

Contenders Edge · Apr 23, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Not at all.
Just calling you on your claim that he failed.

Saint Steven said: ↑
You describe a god who painted himself into a corner with his own ill-conceived plan. Left to wring his hands in regret. Powerless to undo what he has done to his whole creation. As if he didn't see it coming.

How many aspects of his divine character are violated in that theory?
- omniscience
- omnipotence
What else?

The failure is on those who don't embrace Christ. If they end up being punished for all eternity, that is their fault. They were given a way out and they didn't take it.

Contenders Edge · Apr 23, 2020

Saint Steven said:
As usual. You didn't answer the question. Dogma isn't an answer.

Saint Steven said: ↑
As evidenced by claiming that he created a forever burning hell with no hope of escape? Eternal conscious torment. A fury that would under natural circumstance kill someone (or render unconsciousness) immediately, is designed so as to keep the victim alive (and fully unconscious) in torture for all eternity.

No pleasure, you say?

Did the Father take pleasure in having to turn His face away from Christ when He was suffering for our sins?

FineLinen · Apr 23, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
The failure is on those who don't embrace Christ. If they end up being punished for all eternity, that is their fault. They were given a way out and they didn't take it.

You poor young laddy: The purpose of any calibre father is to enhance the life of his child, not punishment as an end in itself.

Can you spell transformation?

The Father of all fathers exceeds any calibre father a bunch!

Saint Steven · Apr 23, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
Did the Father take pleasure in having to turn His face away from Christ when He was suffering for our sins?

That is not accurate.
Jesus was quoting Psalm 22, which is a messianic Psalm.
God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:18-20
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

Saint Steven · Apr 23, 2020

Contenders Edge said:
The failure is on those who don't embrace Christ. If they end up being punished for all eternity, that is their fault. They were given a way out and they didn't take it.

There are countless billions --- BILLIONS --- that never had that opportunity.

Are those who deny eternal punishment doomed to Hell?

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