The rapture is extrabiblical

"The rapture is extrabiblical" I would agree with that. And false I might add.

But I've never heard killed being the meaning of taken though. Looking up now. Danke Lord

well, upon a quick search, taken does not mean killed after all.

Strong's Greek: 3880. παραλαμβάνω (paralambanó) -- to receive from

greatcloudlives said:

The word "taken" means killed in the Greek language.

Click to expand...

Let me check my Bible Greek source >

Ok, so it looks like one scripture you could be referring to is Matthew 24:40-41. And the Strong's Concordance Greek dictionary word for this is 3880 > so, let's see >

This means something like "receive near" or associate oneself with someone. It does not say anything about being killed, in this source.

greatcloudlives said:

The rapture is extrabibical

Click to expand...

And the word "extrabiblical" is extrabiblical.

And a same term can have exact opposite meanings.

Extra-biblical can mean outside of the authority of the Bible.

And extra-biblical could mean extremely biblical

So . . . the basic meaning of the Rapture is the resurrection of Christ's church. And our Apostle Paul is clear how in the end we all will be changed to be resurrected > 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 > those who are already dead will rise first, then those still alive will be caught up to be with Jesus. This is the Biblical basic meaning of the Rapture doctrine > it simply means how we in Jesus will all be resurrected to be with our Groom, the dead rising first, then the rest of us.

And Paul uses the term "the resurrection", in 2 Timothy 2:18. He means, I understand, the resurrection of the dead in Christ and then of us who remain on this earth. And this resurrection of Christ's Bride is the meaning of "Rapture", but the word "Rapture" brings out also how delighted and blessed and gloriously joyful we will be with our Groom Jesus.

But the controversy lies not with if there will be a Rapture, but when it will occur in relation to the great seven-year tribulation which people believe there will be. Ones claim there will be a pre-trib Rapture and then no one else can ever be saved. Others believe in a mid-trib Rapture, or a post-trib one. And others seem to think there will be the resurrection of God's people, pre-trib, and then right after the trib, also, for those who get saved during the tribulation.

But there will be the resurrection of God's people to be with our Groom Jesus. This is Biblical and what the Biblical meaning of "Rapture" means.

It takes a lot of imagination to see the rapture in the New Testament. I heard a Lutheran Pastor explain that "taken" did not mean to be taken up to meet the Lord in the Sky--not a rapture. The left behind were the fortunate ones. I don't remember if he said anything about being killed, but it wasn't good. For example, becoming a slave or a prisoner. Lutherans do not generally believe in Premillenialism, Mid Millenialism, or Post. They would believe in Amillenialism. The end times the coming of the Lord to judge the living and the dead is what they believe as mentioned in the Apostles' Creed. But ask a Lutheran for the straight stuff.

Now as for me I believe that the Lord will come in his own time and his own way, so I don't need to be concerned about it, but to be ready!

com7fy8 said:

Ok, so it looks like one scripture you could be referring to is Matthew 24:40-41.

Click to expand...

If you read the whole chapter, it makes a comparison of being taken to the people swept away by the flood in Noah's time.

It really doesn't matter what "Taken" means precisely. What matters a lot more is that the word is applied to the people who are wicked /evil. It is the wicked who are taken and the righteous left behind.

It makes sense, after all, how will the meek inherit the Earth if they were taken away from Earth? And how will the wicked build wealth for the righteous if the righteous are gone?

martin-luther2 said:

I heard a Lutheran Pastor explain that "taken" did not mean to be taken up to meet the Lord in the Sky--not a rapture.

Click to expand...

So, if someone says that > the Strong's Concordance Greek dictionary says "taken" does mean to "receive near". And this would fit with Jesus resurrecting us and receiving us to Himself.

So, does a person give one's source, for saying something??

What are you basing your belief on?

timewerx said:

It really doesn't matter what "Taken" means precisely. What matters a lot more is that the word is applied to the people who are wicked /evil. It is the wicked who are taken and the righteous left behind.

It makes sense, after all, how will the meek inherit the Earth if they were taken away from Earth?

Click to expand...

Ok, yes ones might understand that the people being saved in the ark were representative of the church being resurrected to be with Jesus, above the earth.

That would be an imperfect image, to be understood as to what it means. A poetic image does not always fit in every detail with what it is representing. For other examples, Jesus is called the Lion and the Lamb. Each image brings out something true about Jesus.

The idea of being "taken", according to my Greek source, is it means to be received near to someone, or someone associates with someone else. And yes in the resurrection of God's people, we will be received to Jesus and associated with Him our Groom. So, this meaning fits.

But you are saying there is a problem with this, because the church would be up in the air with Jesus . . . not on this earth.

Ok . . . so yes ones left behind on the earth will be in trouble, like the ones drowned in the flood. But they won't be drowned, since God promised He would never flood the earth again, like that. But they will be eventually cleared away.

And then we in Jesus will be on the earth, but it will be the new earth, not as it is now - - - as our Apostle Paul says, "the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God." (in Romans 8:21)

So - - - we will be glorified in the resurrection, into "glorious liberty", and Paul says "also" what will happen to "the creation".

Do you trust how God is able to resurrect the whole earth so it is "new" in our "glorious liberty"? He takes us off the earth, by means of the Rapture . . . like to how He lifted Noah and his people off of the earth, by means of the ark. And then, after clearing this earth of all the evil, like He did under Noah, then is when the earth joins with us in "the glorious liberty of the children of God."

com7fy8 said:

Ok, yes ones might understand that the people being saved in the ark were representative of the church being resurrected to be with Jesus, above the earth.

Click to expand...

I think you are looking at things the opposite way.

Read carefully Matthew 24.

Those taken in Noah's time are those swept away by the flood. They were taken by the flood, not by Noah's boat. And those who were taken were worldly (taking life as usual, according to the ways of the world and getting married left and right)

com7fy8 said:

Ok, yes ones might understand that the people being saved in the ark were representative of the church being resurrected to be with Jesus, above the earth.

Click to expand...

That Lutheran Preacher did mention Noah and the Ark. He did not cite any other scripture.

I wonder if he might be referring to the actual Judgment of the Quick and the Dead. In other words The taken to their final judgment--their final destination. And those not taken to their eternal reward with Jesus.

Hello

Let's compare Jesus' words with His own. I understand that the context and translation would make a difference.

I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one. John 17:15

Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Matthew 24:40

Let the wheat and the weeds both grow together until harvest. Then I will tell the harvest workers to pull up the weeds first, tie them in bundles and burn them, and then to gather in the wheat and put it in my barn. Matthew 13:30

timewerx said:

Those taken in Noah's time are those swept away by the flood. They were taken by the flood, not by Noah's boat.

Click to expand...

I mean that the ones taken by Noah's boat were Noah and his family.

I do not mean that Noah's boat took away the evil people. Yes, the flood took them.

And I mean that Noah's ark lifting and saving them can be considered a poetic representation of the Rapture lifting us from the world and saving us to be with Jesus.

gospels said:

Let's compare Jesus' words with His own. I understand that the context and translation would make a difference.

I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one. John 17:15

Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Matthew 24:40

Let the wheat and the weeds both grow together until harvest. Then I will tell the harvest workers to pull up the weeds first, tie them in bundles and burn them, and then to gather in the wheat and put it in my barn. Matthew 13:30

Click to expand...

But the same thing can be taken in different ways.

When Jesus prays for them not to be taken out of the world, He can mean during the time while He wants us to still minister to this evil world's people.

But then > Paul clearly says we will be taken up to be with the Lord "in the air". This is when Jesus resurrects His church bride.

"Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." (in 1 Thessalonians 4:17)

And I personally see how this can go with how Jesus says His angels will gather His elect > in Matthew 24:31 < we will be gathered to be with the Lord above the earth. And in verse 35 He says the earth will pass away. So, no way can we stay in this earth if it will pass away. But after God clears evil from the earth and resurrects the earth to become the new earth . . . then back we come

But I think I understand that you mean the ones taken will be the evil ones. But "taken" can mean "received" and "brought into association with", which I don't think would go for the evil people. Jesus will receive us who are His bride church.

But yes He says the tares will be pulled up, which one could say means to take them. This is imagery which can bring out certain things but not be meant for every detail to mean something literally. After all, Jesus is called the Lion and the Lamb. Poetic things in God's word are not meant to be literal in every detail, but bring out what they are meant to bring out.

A main point I understand Jesus means is that God is not going to separate evil people from His people until the time appointed. But then they will be separated, and we will be with Jesus.

com7fy8 said:

But the same thing can be taken in different ways.

When Jesus prays for them not to be taken out of the world, He can mean during the time while He wants us to still minister to this evil world's people.

But then > Paul clearly says we will be taken up to be with the Lord "in the air". This is when Jesus resurrects His church bride.

"Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." (in 1 Thessalonians 4:17)

And I personally see how this can go with how Jesus says His angels will gather His elect > in Matthew 24:31 < we will be gathered to be with the Lord above the earth. And in verse 35 He says the earth will pass away. So, no way can we stay in this earth if it will pass away. But after God clears evil from the earth and resurrects the earth to become the new earth . . . then back we come

But I think I understand that you mean the ones taken will be the evil ones. But "taken" can mean "received" and "brought into association with", which I don't think would go for the evil people. Jesus will receive us who are His bride church.

But yes He says the tares will be pulled up, which one could say means to take them. This is imagery which can bring out certain things but not be meant for every detail to mean something literally. After all, Jesus is called the Lion and the Lamb. Poetic things in God's word are not meant to be literal in every detail, but bring out what they are meant to bring out.

A main point I understand Jesus means is that God is not going to separate evil people from His people until the time appointed. But then they will be separated, and we will be with Jesus.

Click to expand...

I understand. But we are looking at things from a very different perspective than what these words really meant to the people living in a different era and culture. I used to think the same like you said but when I dig deeper, also while pondering in my spirit with the Holy Spirit, I’m kind of leaning towards taken for being killed. I do agree we will meet our Lord in the space above, outside the physical realm. Maybe while the evil ones are pulled/taken out, those that are left will be gathered up to Jesus. There is more to untangle and find some hidden things.

com7fy8 said:

And I mean that Noah's ark lifting and saving them can be considered a poetic representation of the Rapture lifting us from the world and saving us to be with Jesus.

Click to expand...

Yup

But that is not the context shown in Matthew 24. It is the flood doing the "taking away", not Noah's boat.

And the verse popularly quoted in rapture theory follows immediately after it.

Matthew 24:39-40
and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.

gospels said:

I understand. But we are looking at things from a very different perspective than what these words really meant to the people living in a different era and culture. I used to think the same like you said but when I dig deeper, also while pondering in my spirit with the Holy Spirit, I’m kind of leaning towards taken for being killed. I do agree we will meet our Lord in the space above outside the physical realm. Maybe while the evil ones are pulled/taken out, those that are left will be gathered up to Jesus. There is more to untangle and find some hidden things.

Click to expand...

2nd that

The rapture is most assuredly in the Bible. It's a reference to being caught up. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 - Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The word in (1 Thes.4:17) Greek is Harpazo. In the Latin Bible (1 Thes.4:17) the word is Rapturo. From that is derived the word Rapture.
Enoch was taken away (Gen.5:24; Heb.11:5) compare (Ezek.3:14) or caught up to heaven. The prophet Elijah was caught up to heaven (2 kngs.2:1) The Church will be caught up to heaven (1 Thes.4:17). Also the two witnesses of Revelation will be caught up to heaven (Revelation 11:12). And the child is caught up to heaven (Revelation 12:5).