DRIVE THRU CONFESSION???

concretecamper said:

This is one of those that many find hard to follow. But as you said, Jesus Himself said it.
The Lutherans and Catholic Church agree on much. And they disagree on much more. The point of Joint Declaration was to find common ground on which to build from. But as you have seen, what was the point. No one is going to change their position.
you admit that the Church's teachings haven't changed. I agree. So there is no turn around here.

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I agree with you to all except Amores Laetitia.
I believe it was left to individual priests...
I believe Francis purposefully left it unclear so that the priests that want to give communion now have the ability to do this.

I liked Benedict better.

concretecamper said:

I like Benedict better too.

But AL didnt allow individual priests to allow those in invalid second marriages to recieve the Eucharist.

Listen, I'm a Cardinal Burke fan. AL was a train wreck in presentation and in some cases application. But it did not change the teachings of the Church.

Remember, Peter denied Christ 3 times. Popes are human with human biases and fears.

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I have a friend that would not believe church doctrine was changed. I said this already BEFORE the exhortation was written. I think it was in 2015 that my group received a form to fill out (by our parish) that asked what we thought of this doctrine. I had the feeling back then that something was about to change.

Well, in the year 2019 she admitted that, indeed, doctrine has been changed. Not our opinion only...the monk we study with has made the same statement...he was also very disturbed.

If you want to think that church doctrine has not been changed,,,I can't argue too much about this.
However, I can think of two couples just off-hand that are in second marriages and are receiving communion (one of those women has been married 3X).

Anyway, I think we should let it go at that.
Maybe your church is more conservative?
I think it was a mess.

And what about women Deacons?
Where are we headed?

I say "we" and I'm not even catholic anymore but have ties to the catholic church. I wish it had stayed as it was in the beginning....

concretecamper said:

people who are in invalid marriages and are receiving the Eucharist are in grave sin. That is the Church's teaching. It is not your opinion or my opinion that counts.

then find a different parish or monk to talk to. Too many parish priests feel that divorce and remarriage is ok. Many parish priest think birth control is ok. Many parish priests are leading their flocks to perdition. But dont abandon His Church. I make sure I know the teachings of the Church. If my radar goes off with what is said, I know to correct the priest or whoever I am speaking to.

it will never happen.

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Of course the church cannot change what Jesus taught. But I feel that it has.
I agree with you that it depends on the Bishop involved - more than the individual priest.

Also, you bring up a good question:
If someone is following their church (parish) teaching, how could they be lead to perdition if they are only doing what their priest tells them?

But regarding the monk....he's a monk/not a priest.
Priests go to him for confession. Monks are considered the only true holy persons in the catholic faith.

Also, he teaches - I don't go to talk to him.
We're a small group of about 15 and he's extremely conservative and well-read and good at teaching.

Hamlet7768 said:

The way I put it is this: It is conceivable that there are people who are not Catholic and still will be saved by the grace of God. However, they are saved in spite of their error, not because they weren't in error at all. That is one reason why it's so important to pray and work for real unity based in Truth, and to pray for the dead who sought God with a sincere heart in their lives.

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The CCC does teach that other Christians are saved and that we are all saved through the sacrifice of Jesus because He did die for the "whole world" - not to get this confused with universalism.

I also understand that THOSE OUTSIDE THE CHURCH were not considered saved because there was only one church at the beginning.. so extra ecclesias nulla salis made sense. Those not in the church could not be saved.

But today, the CC does admit that those that love God and live for Him are saved through Jesus.

As for the co-redemptrix thing, though it's not really relevant, I'm against it for the practical reason that it would cause anger and confusion. I don't think calling Mary Co-Redemptrix conveys any truth that isn't already conveyed by, say, "Mediatrix of all Graces" (Leo XIII, and I thought that was a little over the top too). The key is understanding Mary as the Mother of God. Every good thing about Mary comes from God, and Catholics (usually) just understand that, but it's not always obvious, especially to those outside the Church.

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I think Catholics make TOO MUCH of Mary and if we had concentrated on Jesus more we'd be in a better condition today -- although this is happening now.

OTOH, Protestants almost recent the honor given to her and this is wrong too. I think we agree on this.