Are those who deny eternal punishment doomed to Hell?

Bible Highlighter said:

Calvinism is just a cold hearted version of God that we do not see in the rest of God's Word. The same is true for Eternal Torment.

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Did you recently read the forum rules ?
Unless they changed, it is okay to debate Calvinism and say it is right or wrong and why - even false gospels are permitted daily.
But if they did not change, or if it was another forum not this one, claiming there is no eternal torment , only a sudden ceasation of someone, is not permitted.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Did you recently read the forum rules ?
Unless they changed, it is okay to debate Calvinism and say it is right or wrong and why - even false gospels are permitted daily.
But if they did not change, or if it was another forum not this one, claiming there is no eternal torment , only a sudden ceasation of someone, is not permitted.

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I don't believe in the sudden cessation of a person's soul and spirit body after their physical body dies. I believe there is a literal hell, and that the wicked will go there. I believe the story of Lazarus and the rich-man is a real and literal story. I also believe the wicked will suffer in the Lake of Fire for a time until they are destroyed or annihilated. Annihilation is what happens eventually in the Lake of Fire after the final Judgment. I believe the wicked will be punished for a time in the Lake of Fire, but it is not eternal. The wicked will eventually be erased from existence in the Lake of Fire.

Here is a rough timeline:

1. Wicked person's physical body dies.
2. The wicked person's soul and spirit immediately goes to hell (I believe the wicked will definitely be awake in hell, but they may also go through possible long periods of sleep, too).
3. The Judgment of the wicked (Which is far in the future).
4. The wicked are cast into the Lake of Fire.
5. The wicked will be punished for a time in the Lake of Fire.
6. The wicked will be erased from existence in the Lake of Fire.
7. The wicked's empty corpses and remains will be viewed by the saints before no more death, pain, sorrow is implemented upon the New Earth.

Note 1: The last enemy to be destroyed is death. When this happens precisely on this timeline is unknown. But it will happen after the wicked are destroyed.

Note 2: Believers in Jesus who justified grievous sin in this life, or who believed in another Jesus will be cast into outer darkness instead of hell before the final judgment takes place (Side Note: I believe Hell is the place of torments the rich-man went to). These type of wicked believers will have the same final fate as the wicked. They will go to the Judgment, and be cast into the Lake of Fire to eventually be destroyed.

As for the forum rules:

I posted many times before in defense for Dualistic Conditional Immortality, and I never had a problem before. I also notice that within the controversial forum section it is filled with tons of threads on Universalism (Which I find to be extremely wrong and I strive to not even debate with such individuals who believe this way). So if they have not taken action on removing those threads over the past few months, then it is a sure bet that they are allowed. When I read the forum rules (just now), it considers Annihilationism to be an unorthodox belief, but it does not say it is not allowed within this section of the forums.

Note: I updated my recent post (post #142) for clarity.

Basil the Great said:

The Athanasian Creed clearly says that belief in eternal punishment is a requirement for salvation.

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Is that right? I read the following translation:

Those who have done good will enter eternal life,
and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

Entering into eternal fire and being punished for eternity are by no means necessarily the same. The latter is an interpretation of the former, and relies an one BIG assumption - the duration of stay is co-extensive with the duration of the fire. (Also, an assumption that 'enter into eternal' conveys 'to be experienced forever'.)

What about the interpretation that says the evil-doers do not enter eternal fire to stay there forever? Why would that be any less plausible on the face of the Creed?

Bible Highlighter said:

Note: I updated my recent post (post #142) for clarity.

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Who is Clarity ? A new poster ? I haven't seen her yet.....

Contenders Edge said:

I have found neither more than one Hell and nothing to suggest that the punishment is only temporary but instead the exact opposite.

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There is much you have not found, Contender. Abide in His Presence under the anointing and He will lead you & all of us into the outer laminar spheres of His Glory.

You will find that little word "at" in some translations of koine. When we read of every knee, every tongue and every dimension worshiping our Lord (Phil. 2:10.11) it is not "at" but "IN/EN."

Bible Gateway passage: Philippians 2:10-11 - New International Version

Do you know what it means in Canon to be IN/EN Christ Jesus? That is precisely what is transpiring in this glorious consummation of Abba in His beloved Son, the Lord Isous! ! !.

1.Tartarus

2. Hades

3. Sheol

4. Geheena

Chapter 16 - Hebrew and Greek words mistranslated to mean Hell – Gods Plan for All

That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow (ινα εν τωι ονοματι Ιησου παν γονυ καμπσηι — hina en tōi onomati Iēsou pan gonu kampsēi). First aorist active subjunctive of καμπτω — kamptō old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ινα — hina Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven. This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22; Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13.

Under the earth (καταχτονιων — katachthoniōn). Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead. Here only in the N.T. -A.T. Robertson Word Pictures-

“Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison; which once were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water… for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”

Zoe is rooted in zaō.

Zoe =

Zoe - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard

zaō =

Life, live, quick in the Bible (127 verses). Greek: ζάω, zaō, G2198

"Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; for, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit." -J.B. Rotherham Emphasized-

Dead=

nekros= a corpse (from nekus)=

Breathed his last/ lifeless.

Deceased/ departed.

Destitute of life/ without life.

Inanimate.

Disobedient= apeitheo=

Not to allow one’s self to be persuaded.

To refuse or withhold belief & obedience.

To refuse belief and obedience.

Not to comply with.

Live= zao=

To be alive with resurrection life.

Sheep won't burn in hell, sheep won't follow false shepherds, sheep walk in His Light.

John 10
22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I was never afraid of hell. Jesus is so loving that I have no idea why His sheep wouldn't follow Him. I was lost, but He found me!

Aussie Pete said:

I wish UR was true.

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That's where I started.
I'll give you credit for that. Many will fight tooth and nail to keep hell, refusing to give it up.

Aussie Pete said:

I wish UR was true. I could quit witnessing, quit ministering to other Christians and just enjoy my retirement. I find plenty to do. I could leave sinners alone, safe in the knowledge that they will be saved eventually anyway.

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That's a common misunderstanding about UR.
We all need the work of God immediately in our lives. Waiting until the afterlife is ill-advised.

Saint Steven said:

That's a common misunderstanding about UR.
We all need the work of God immediately in our lives. Waiting until the afterlife is ill-advised.

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Why? If everyone is saved eventually, what is the big deal?

Phoebe Ann said:

Sheep won't burn in hell, sheep won't follow false shepherds, sheep walk in His Light.

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We learn the great prophecy of peace amongst the nations from Isaiah 11:6 and 65:25, and echoed in many other scriptures:

And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the young goat, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them.

Surely this looks up in hope to the time of restoration of things of which all the prophets spake (Acts 3:21).

So who does burn in hell - the cormorant, the pelican and the hedgehog? The screech owl and the desert owl perhaps? Maybe the serpent from the wilderness?

Aussie Pete said:

Why? If everyone is saved eventually, what is the big deal?

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"Hell" is still hell, just not the forever burning, nor the annihilation of the other view. There will be wailing and the gnashing of teeth. (similar to your own conversion experience? - lol)

So, best to deal with it on this side of the afterlife. Makes this life better as well.

Furthermore, most Christians think there is no hell for them, but Jesus said we will all be salted with fire. But I see the goal as purification not meaningless punishment. I like this OT description.

Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

Aussie Pete said:

Why? If everyone is saved eventually, what is the big deal?

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Good grief!

What our Father, the Beginning & Ending cherishes I shall. He is the God of restoration, His beloved Son has a middle Name (Isous).

God IS Saviour! He is not a potential Saviour, He IS Saviour!

He is Saviour of all mankind (the radical pas)

AND

He is the Saviour of the especially/ malista.

AND

"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."

FineLinen said:

the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ;

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Ephesians 1:10. Now how have I overlooked that beautiful passage to date amongst all the manifold other promises and prophecies of universal restoration?

Praise the Lord and thank you F.L.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Who is Clarity ? A new poster ? I haven't seen her yet.....

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I pray you find Clarity Jeff, as she's a helpful handmaiden to Faith, Hope, Charity, Verity and Sophia, I do believe.

Contenders Edge said:

Let me put it this way: Denial of eternal punishment does not give anyone much incentive to repent now, does it? The scriptures clearly teach that the wicked and unbelieving face everlasting punishment. To teach anything different would be to teach a lie.

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I actually repented because of the trials I was facing in this world. Things in my life were going terrible until I turned to God for help and afterwards He blessed me with more than I ever imagined. PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!

BNR32FAN said:

I actually repented because of the trials I was facing in this world. Things in my life were going terrible until I turned to God for help and afterwards He blessed me with more than I ever imagined. PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!

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But most importantly, you will be with Christ for all eternity regardless of what you might face in this life.

Shrewd Manager said:

We learn the great prophecy of peace amongst the nations from Isaiah 11:6 and 65:25, and echoed in many other scriptures:

And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the young goat, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them.

Surely this looks up in hope to the time of restoration of things of which all the prophets spake (Acts 3:21).

So who does burn in hell - the cormorant, the pelican and the hedgehog? The screech owl and the desert owl perhaps? Maybe the serpent from the wilderness?

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Those humans whose works were evil and they never followed Jesus.

Revelation 14:11, NIV: "And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.'"

The term "second death" occurs four times in the New Testament, specifically in Revelation 2:11, 20:6, 20:14 and 21:8. According to Revelation 2:11 and 20:6, those who overcome the devil's tribulation, are holy and have part in the first resurrection will not experience the second death.
Second death - Wikipedia