Are those who deny eternal punishment doomed to Hell?

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Der Alte

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But "destroyed" does not square with "...shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
Quoting out-of-context.
1 Co 3:9-17 9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
This entire passage is directed to laborers together with God, God's husbandry, God's building. [vs. 11] who build on the foundation of Jesus Christ, vss. 10-11.
"Every man,""any man" an "no man" in this passage refers the group in vss. 10-11, not all mankind.
Vs. 15 does not refer to the work of all mankind but only those who build on the foundation of Jesus Christ vs. 11
Vs. 15 does not say "any man," all mankind, will be saved by fire but "so as by fire."
This passage does not support universal reconciliation the only persons who are saved "so as by fire," are those who build on the foundation of Jesus Christ. vs. 11.
This passage does not support universal reconciliation vs. 17 says any man who defiles the temple of God will be destroyed not saved
 
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FineLinen

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There is one (1) passage of Canon for “everlasting punishment” (Matt.25:46). This one single verse is the cornerstone for the proponents of unending punishment.

According to the context of St. Matthew 25 and ONLY the context, please fill in the empty lines.

The foundation for “everlasting punishment” Matt. 25:46

1.______________________________?

2.______________________________?

3.______________________________?

4.______________________________?

5.______________________________?
 
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Let me put it this way: show me one (1) Scripture that speaks of "eternal punishment" (aidios kolasis).

ea9a52165622a6c0280278ad887592775940cd12.jpeg


There are several. If you haven't found one scripture teaching eternal punishment for the wicked and unrepentant, then you really haven't read the scriptures at all. Otherwise, you would have found many references pertaining to Hell and the Lake of Fire where the unbelieving and wicked will reside forever.
 
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FineLinen

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There are several. If you haven't found one scripture teaching eternal punishment for the wicked and unrepentant, then you really haven't read the scriptures at all. Otherwise, you would have found many references pertaining to Hell and the Lake of Fire where the unbelieving and wicked will reside forever.

There are four hell's in Canon, all four end in the Lord of Glory!

The Lake of Theos is found in the Revelation of Jesus Christ. That Lake has defining characteristics: it radiates with theion & theioo, rooted in Theos.

Hell (all 4) is NOT the Lake of Fire.

Hell's end in the Lake!
 
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FineLinen

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Facing the Problem

Are you at peace regarding the eternal destiny of your children, parents, brothers, sisters, and grandparents? Are you experiencing abundant joy in your “personal” salvation while unsure if some of your dearest loved ones might suffer throughout eternity? How is that possible if you really love them as much as you love yourself? You see, we Christians have a problem, a very serious problem. The problem is our belief that hell is “eternal” and that most of humanity will suffer endlessly. Deep inside we know something is not right, but we suppress our questions and doubts because we “think” the Bible teaches it. What inner conflict rages within us! It is futile to find satisfying answers to the problems this issue raises.

https://www.hopebeyondhell.net/
 
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Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
There is one (1) passage of Canon for “everlasting punishment” (Matt.25:46). This one single verse is the cornerstone for the proponents of unending punishment.
According to the context of St. Matthew 25 and ONLY the context, please fill in the empty lines.
In twenty four [24] of the following verses αἰών/aion and αἰώνιος/aionios are defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by comparison or contrast with other adjectives or adjectival phrases.
List of verses cited:1 Timothy 1:17, 2 Corinthians 4:17-18, 2 Corinthians 5:1, Hebrews 7:24, 1 Peter 1:23, 1 Timothy 6:16, Galatians 6:8, John 6:58, John 10:20, 1 John 2:17, 1 Peter 5:10, Romans 2:7, Luke 1:33,Revelation 14:11, John 10:28, John 3:15, John 3:16, John 5:24, John 8:51, Ephesians 3:21, Romans 1:20, Romans 5:21, Romans 16:26, John 3:36 , John 4:14, John 6:27
…..In the NT “aion/aionios” sometimes refer to things which are not eternal but neither word is ever defined/described, by other adjectives or adjectival phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, as in the following verses.
…..In 9 of these verses Jesus has defined “aionios” as eternal. In 10 verses Paul has defined “aionios” as eternal.

[1] Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [ἀΐ́διος/aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

[2] Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” In this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
[3] Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [βασιλευσει][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [αιωνας/aionas] and of his kingdom [βασιλειας][Nn] there shall be no end.[τελος/τελος]
In this verse the reign βασιλευσει/basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom βασιλειας/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternal.
[4] 2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[πρόσκαιρος/proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this passage “aionios” is contrasted with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[5] 2 Corinthians 5:1
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] in the heavens.
In this verse “aionios house” is contrasted with “earthly house which is destroyed.” Is God going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house which only lasts a little longer and will be destroyed at the end of an age? The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus, “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[6] Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [αἰών/aion] he has an unchangeable [ἀπαράβατος/aparabatos] priesthood.
In this verse “aion” is paired with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue “for a finite period” and be “unchangeable” at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[7] 1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …

1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[αἰών/aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.
In verse 23 “word of God” is paired with “imperishable.” The same writer, Peter, in the same writing 1 Peter in verse 25 writes the word of God “endures εις τον αιωνα unto eternity. ” Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity.”
[8] 1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
[9] Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [φθορά/fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”
[10] John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse Jesus contrasts “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[Character limit. continued next post]

 
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Der Alte

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[Post #66 continued]

[11] John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, and they shall never [αἰών/aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
[12] 1 John 2:17
(17) The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever. [αἰών/aion]
In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “pass away,” “lives aionios” cannot mean a finite period, which is is not opposite of “pass away.” Thus “lives aionios” by definition here means “lives eternally.”
[13] 1 Peter 5:10
(10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [αιωνιον/aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [ολιγον/oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.
In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “little while” Does Jesus give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die? Thus “aionios” here, by definition, means “eternal.”
[14] Romans 2:7
(7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [ἀφθαρσία/apftharsia] he will give eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.
In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers cannot seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”
[15] 1 Timothy 1:17.
(17) Now unto the King eternal, [αἰών/aion] immortal, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [αἰών/aion] and ever [αἰώνιος/aionios]. Amen.
In this verse “aion” is paired with “immortal.” “Aion” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite period and immortal at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[16] Revelation 14:11
(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[εις αιωνας αιωνων/eis aionas aionon] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paired with “no rest day or night.” If “aionas, aionon” means “a finite period” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “forever and forever.”
[17] John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “shall not perish.” Believers could perish in a finite period, “aionion life” by definition here means eternal life.

[18] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον] life.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
[19] John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [αἰώνιος] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
In this verse Jesus pairs “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
[20] Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [αἰώνιος] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
In this verse “aionios life” is contrasted with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death, “eternal life” is. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
[21] Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [του αιωνος/tou aionios] and ever! [των αιωνων/ton aionion] Amen.
In this verse “tou aionios ton aionion” is paired with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
[22] John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
In this verse aionios life is contrasted with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.
[23] John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.
In this verse aionios is contrasted with “shall never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal.
[24] John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
In this verse “aionios meat” is contrasted with “meat that perishes” .” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.
[25] John 8:51
(51) Very truly [αμην αμην/amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiona] see death."
According to noted Greek scholar Marvin Vincent
"The double negative [ου μη/ou mé] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally."
 
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Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
There is one (1) passage of Canon for “everlasting punishment” (Matt.25:46). This one single verse is the cornerstone for the proponents of unending punishment.
According to the context of St. Matthew 25 and ONLY the context, please fill in the empty lines.
If there is one (1) passage of Canon for “universal reconciliation” Post that one single verse and
according to the context of that one verse and ONLY the context, please fill in the empty lines.
The foundation for “universal reconciliation”
1.______________________________?

2.______________________________?

3.______________________________?

4.______________________________?

5.______________________________?
 
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Basil the Great

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Are you trying to convince me Jesus has an eternal torture chamber?

Jesus taught and healed. He did not strike with the sword. Dying might be like falling asleep and not waking for some, except for the day of judgement. Not living again is eternal damnation. It is not like God would boil people in a pot alive forever for dropping out of church services.
No, I am not trying to convince you of that.
 
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Basil the Great

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Just wanted to add Reformed are also creedal.

Now I guess the question is if one denies eternal punishment does that mean God will honor their belief. ;)
Yes, I know, but I am not aware if the Reformed churches have formally accepted the Athanasian Creed, though they certainly accept the doctrine of eternal punishment or at least have so in the past.
 
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There are four hell's in Canon, all four end in the Lord of Glory!

The Lake of Theos is found in the Revelation of Jesus Christ. That Lake has defining characteristics: it radiates with theion & theioo, rooted in Theos.

Hell (all 4) is NOT the Lake of Fire.

Hell's end in the Lake!


I only read about one Hell in scripture with a number of characteristics to describe it and the defining characteristics of the Lake of Fire is that it is a place burning with brimstone where the wicked will forever be punished and into which even death and hell itself will be cast.

Hell is just a temporary holding place for the wicked and unbelieving as it will relinquish the dead therein to face their final judgment (Rev. 20:13) but Hell is certainly no place of comfort either.
 
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FineLinen

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I only read about one Hell in scripture with a number of characteristics to describe it and the defining characteristics of the Lake of Fire is that it is a place burning with brimstone where the wicked will forever be punished and into which even death and hell itself will be cast.

Hell is just a temporary holding place for the wicked and unbelieving as it will relinquish the dead therein to face their final judgment (Rev. 20:13) but Hell is certainly no place of comfort either.

Keep reading: there are indeed four hell's and all four of them end in the Lake of Theos!

Punishment within Abba has one purpose, it is not unending terror but leads to change and transformation. When, not if it transpires, the peaceable fruits of righteousness transpires.
 
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paul1149

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I haven't done a detailed study on this, but going by my recollection, and just checking a couple of online articles, the Book of Acts, and indeed the Epistles, go very soft on the concept of Hell. Paul speaks of the judgment to come, when speaking to the Athenians at Acts 17. There are some mentions of wrath in the book as well. 2Peter even gets quite graphic about elements melting with intense heat. But these cannot be tied directly to the historic post-NT concept of Hell that the church developed.

The words of Jesus lend themselves more toward that concept. But even there, there is room for disagreement about the eternal nature of the punishment.

If the Bible is soft or ambiguous on something, I'm not clear why we should make it an obligatory part of the faith, or why it should be so featured in our pronouncements of the Good News. Does hellfire get people to the front rail at church? It can. Are those true conversions or superficial manipulations? It could be either. Is that kind of preaching an accurate and balanced representation of the nature of God? Maybe, but it's very easy to take it out of line.

I personally don't have a conviction about the exact nature of Hell. And I'm ok with that (and I don't have a special interest in who Athanasius was), because knowing the wrath of God is coming is enough for me. I know God is just and must punish sin; indeed, that is why Christ had to die to take away ours. I would be comfortable citing that justice and wrath when presenting the Good News, because it is an organic part of the message, and I have the preaching of the Apostles to back that up (Jude tell us to "save some through fear"). But I normally would go no further than that.

When I see creedal issues like this one I am reminded that there is no safety in the church or in church history. Only genuine trust in Christ for salvation will keep one's soul when the judgment comes.
 
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I haven't done a detailed study on this, but going by my recollection, and just checking a couple of online articles, the Book of Acts, and indeed the Epistles, go very soft on the concept of Hell. Paul speaks of the judgment to come, when speaking to the Athenians at Acts 17. There are some mentions of wrath in the book as well. 2Peter even gets quite graphic about elements melting with intense heat. But these cannot be tied directly to the historic post-NT concept of Hell that the church developed.
The words of Jesus lend themselves more toward that concept. But even there, there is room for disagreement about the eternal nature of the punishment.
If the Bible is soft or ambiguous on something, I'm not clear why we should make it an obligatory part of the faith, or why it should be so featured in our pronouncements of the Good News. Does hellfire get people to the front rail at church? It can. Are those true conversions or superficial manipulations? It could be either. Is that kind of preaching an accurate and balanced representation of the nature of God? Maybe, but it's very easy to take it out of line.
I personally don't have a conviction about the exact nature of Hell. And I'm ok with that (and I don't have a special interest in who Athanasius was), because knowing the wrath of God is coming is enough for me. I know God is just and must punish sin; indeed, that is why Christ had to die to take away ours. I would be comfortable citing that justice and wrath when presenting the Good News, because it is an organic part of the message, and I have the preaching of the Apostles to back that up (Jude tell us to "save some through fear"). But I normally would go no further than that.
When I see creedal issues like this one I am reminded that there is no safety in the church or in church history. Only genuine trust in Christ for salvation will keep one's soul when the judgment comes.
I have done a fairly thorough study of hell. Some folks want to argue that the concept of hell came from pagan Greeks.
…..According to three irrefutable Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, quoted below, among the Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom.
…..There were different groups within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. That there were differing beliefs does not rebut, refute, change or disprove anything in this post.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);
[Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT supposed bias of Christian translators. DA]
(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]

… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b).
When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [ שׁאול /Sheol]] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.

= = = = = = = = = =
Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb.
גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom

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Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.

The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.
When Jesus taught e.g.,
• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12
…..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
…..A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that often it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“‘Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4
…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, why didn’t Jesus tell them there was no hell, no eternal punishment etc? Why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only encourage and reinforce their beliefs?


 
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JacksBratt

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The Athanasian Creed clearly says that belief in eternal punishment is a requirement for salvation. Said Creed has been accepted in the past by the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, the Anglican Church and the Lutheran Church. Where does this leave Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans and Lutherans who simply cannot profess a belief in eternal punishment, as well as all other Christians who in good conscience, are unable to confess such a belief?

I am reminded of a Lutheran service that I attended 30 years ago in a Midwestern suburban community. That Sunday there was a guest pastor and he chose to use the Athanasian Creed. The congregation was reading the Creed aloud together, but when the time came to read the line about eternal punishment, 95+% of the congregation went silent and refused to read said line aloud.
Those that deny Christ are not saved.... So, everyone is going to hell in the first place.. Those that accept Christ are saved from eternal death.

What they perceive as the eternal punishment or death is not determinant on their eternal life in the presence of their creator.

Even educated Christian theologians argue about what hell is and the aspects of it..

So, it's pretty simple.. even baby Christians (those who are new to the faith, not actual infants) who don't eat the meat of the scriptures.. but only the milk... understand, simply, that they are sinners, deserve eternal death and Christ paid their price..

Their belief in the concepts of what hell is are not important.
 
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FineLinen

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Those that deny Christ are not saved.... So, everyone is going to hell in the first place.. Those that accept Christ are saved from eternal death.

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yeshuaslavejeff

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I only read about one Hell in scripture with a number of characteristics to describe it and the defining characteristics of the Lake of Fire is that it is a place burning with brimstone where the wicked will forever be punished and into which even death and hell itself will be cast.

Hell is just a temporary holding place for the wicked and unbelieving as it will relinquish the dead therein to face their final judgment (Rev. 20:13) but Hell is certainly no place of comfort either.
You mixed what you read in Scripture with error full tradition it seems, without distinguishing the two.
 
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