The Trump Presidency is Over

mark46 said:

Trump's father was cunning and shrewd.

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Yes, he was. And Donald Trump was cunning and shrewd in fostering rancor between his father, Fred Trump and brother Freddy Trump, Jr in the years after the latter's death at age 43. When the senior Trump died of pneumonia at age 93 after having been afflicted with Alzheimer's for years, he bequeathed his millions to his children and their descendants, but lopsidedly. Donald Trump had helped draft the will. It excluded his brother's children. Freddy Trump's children sued, claiming Donald Trump had used “undue influence” over their grandfather, who had dementia.

Donald retaliated by withdrawing the medical benefits he had promised to his nephew’s infant son, who suffered from frequent severe seizures that threatened his life and led to cerebral palsy. He held his great-nephew's healthcare hostage to secure a settlement. It's one of the many reasons why I see his "pro-life" rhetoric not as a cause he cares about, not as a goal to craft policies that would actually effectuate fewer unwanted pregnancies and therefore lower the abortion rate (like Switzerland's), but as a card to play. And in nearly every thread about Trump that is critical of him someone in his base will inevitably play that card.

Stanfordella said:

Yes, he was. And Donald Trump was cunning and shrewd in fostering rancor between his father, Fred Trump and brother Freddy Trump, Jr in the years after the latter's death at age 43. When the senior Trump died of pneumonia at age 93 after having been afflicted with Alzheimer's for years, he bequeathed his millions to his children and their descendants, but lopsidedly. Donald Trump had helped draft the will. It excluded his brother's children. Freddy Trump's children sued, claiming Donald Trump had used “undue influence” over their grandfather, who had dementia.

Donald retaliated by withdrawing the medical benefits he had promised to his nephew’s infant son, who suffered from frequent severe seizures that threatened his life and led to cerebral palsy. He held his great-nephew's healthcare hostage to secure a settlement. It's one of the many reasons why I see his "pro-life" rhetoric not as a cause he cares about, not as a goal to craft policies that would actually effectuate fewer unwanted pregnancies and therefore lower the abortion rate (like Switzerland's), but as a card to play. And in nearly every thread about Trump that is critical of him someone in his base will inevitably play that card.

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Conservatives are so wonderfully predictable.

Then again, so are progressives.

Need answers said:

Exactly, the comparison was that Trump supporters are supporting someone like Hitler, so that is comparing Trump to Hitler.

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So let me ask you the same question I asked the others. What has Trump and his administration done that could be morally compared to the atrocities of Hitler and his Nazi party? Please be specific.

Ken-1122 said:

So let me ask you the same question I asked the others. What has Trump and his administration done that could be morally compared to the atrocities of Hitler and his Nazi party? Please be specific.

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Locking kids up in cages is enough for me.

Allandavid said:

No...and I thought this had been made clear. It is his devotees that are being compared with those devotees in Germany in the ‘30’s.

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I know. That is why if you are going to compares the moral aptitude of Trump supporters of today with the moral attitude of Hitler supporters of the yesteryear, you need to explain exactly what Trump has done that can be compared morally to the atrocities of Hitler. Care to try again?

Allandavid said:

No matter what lies were told, no matter how grotesque the discrimination, the loyal followers gobbled it all up without question.

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History does not remember Hitler and the Nazi party for just telling lies and discriminating, they are known for the atrocities of Kristallnacht, Treblinka, Auschwitz, etc. and his supporters supported him through all of that. Again; please explain exactly what Trump has done with the support of todays Christians, that can (in your view) be morally compared to what Hitler is known for with the backing of his supporters.

Allandavid said:

All of our previous examples of authoritarian excesses proceeded gradually. First you claim to be the ‘saviour’.

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Trump never claimed to be a “savior”, like all other politicians, he simply claimed he could make things better than things was at the moment. Now if that is your subjective view of a “savior” then the same can be said for Obama, Bush, Clinton, and all the previous presidents before him, they all claim they can make a change; that’s what president hopefuls do, they rarely run on a ticket of keeping things the same.

Allandavid said:

Then you identify an ‘outgroup’ who threaten the society. Then you commence to blacken the name of that group.

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Trump blackened the name of the outgoing Obama administration, Obama blackened the name of the outgoing Bush administration, Presidents have been doing that forever! Is it your view that all Presidents who blacken the name of their predecessors, are equal to Hitler?

Allandavid said:

Gradually, you succeed in restricting their participation in the wider society. It proceeds until someone (hopefully the electorate) says “enough”...

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You mean like Republicans constantly trying to get elected at the expense of Democrats, and Democrats trying to get elected at the expense of Republicans? Are you seriously comparing this to what the Nazi’s are known for?

FireDragon76 said:

Locking kids up in cages is enough for me.

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First of all, when people talk about Trump locking kids up in cages, they are talking about the Trump administration using the same facilities for Kids used during the Obama administration. As a matter of fact, many of the pictures of kids in the facilities used to vilify Trump were actually taken in 2014 during the Obama administration! (of course they looked the other way when Obama did it) So if you are going to vilify Trump for locking kids up in “cages” you need to also vilify the guy who built the cages; Obama.

PolitiFact - Fact-checking Biden on use of cages for immigrants during Obama administration

Bobber said:

Sounds like a cheap excuse for wanting to bring in censorship of political speech. And as for Trump spending lots to win an election didn't Hillary spend more than him?

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....no, it's a call for people to use the brain God gave them.

Need answers said:

I understand that in some cases abortion may be warranted if the mothers life is at risk. But at which point does the mother own the life within her?

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My view...

I would not say the mother 'owns' the life within her. I would say she owns is the right to not have her body used to sustain the life of someone else. It's the same reason we can't force someone who has two healthy kidneys to donate one of them to another person who needs a life-saving transplant.

So, I am pro-choice. Not 'pro-abortion'. I want there to be as few abortions as possible. Which is why I support scientifically accurate sex education (NOT abstinence-only propaganda), contraception, affordable and accessible healthcare, and adoption, including gay adoption....all things which reduce abortion rates, and all things which the 'pro-life' crowd tend to be against.

To get back to the OP.....

The Trump administration is doing what it always done, ignore and bury bad news items that would hurt Trump, then overreact and blame someone or group, then make some big action that might do something that pleases the base. None of this will slow down covid 19.

I think this will only be the end of the Trump presidency if enough of his base get effected by this and (sadly) the death of people they know and love. Tied to that examples of governments that successfully deal with covid19, and that we could have started earlier, he might lose enough of his base to not be reelected.

But at this point, every one is so polarized I don't see it changing unless it gets as bad as in Italy.

expos4ever said:

Two of us have asked you to defend your claims that 24 % of African Americans are in Trump's base/

Well?

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Poll: Black Voters Give Trump-Hating Dems and Media the Middle Finger

Trump approval rating with blacks now at 36%, Rasmussen poll says

keith99 said:

That statement was never made. The German Christians during the WW II era were generally not party members, they were however willing to turn a blind eye, actually with far more excuse than today's American evangelicals.

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The problem with your claim is your attempt to compare what Trump supporters are willing to turn a blind eye to, vs what Nazi supporters were willing to turn a blind eye to. I find it absurd that you would attempt to equate the two.

Paulos23 said:

I think this will only be the end of the Trump presidency if enough of his base get effected by this and (sadly) the death of people they know and love. Tied to that examples of governments that successfully deal with covid19, and that we could have started earlier, he might lose enough of his base to not be reelected.

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Which countries have dealt with covid19 better than the US?

wing2000 said:

....no, it's a call for people to use the brain God gave them.

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And sometimes you're not to lean to your own understanding. Prov 3:5,6

Ken-1122 said:

Which countries have dealt with covid19 better than the US?

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Taiwan, S Korea, China, Germany

Paulos23 said:

I think this will only be the end of the Trump presidency if enough of his base get effected by this and (sadly) the death of people they know and love. Tied to that examples of governments that successfully deal with covid19, and that we could have started earlier, he might lose enough of his base to not be reelected.

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And you REALLY think Americans believe the Democrats could have done better? You're talking about a Party that criticized Trump for closing down flights coming in from China in the early days of this.

I bet all those people who predicted Trump's presidency would end in catastrophe are feeling pretty stupid right now.

ZNP said:

Taiwan, S Korea, China, Germany

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When the Chinese doctor first spoke of the virus, rather than acting on it, the Chinese government had him arrested for spreading false rumors allowing it to spread like wildfire! Are you seriously going to claim the US did worse than that?

ZNP said:

Taiwan, S Korea, China, Germany

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Germany? Why Germany? And as for China so were you willing to see draconian measures taken like on a military level as what we saw there? I suspect the screams would non ceasing by the media that Trump was demonstrating an overreach. Bottom line is there is nothing Trump could do that would make those who don't like him give him credit for anything.

Ken-1122 said:

Poll: Black Voters Give Trump-Hating Dems and Media the Middle Finger

Trump approval rating with blacks now at 36%, Rasmussen poll says

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I am so confident the 36% figure will melt under scrutiny, that I will offer you the chance to retract before I even begin to investigate the credibility of this claim of yours.

Ken-1122 said:

When the Chinese doctor first spoke of the virus, rather than acting on it, the Chinese government had him arrested for spreading false rumors allowing it to spread like wildfire! Are you seriously going to claim the US did worse than that?

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We had a 2 week head start on China, so by the time they knew they had a problem we were ahead of the game. Since then they have had the biggest quarantine in human history and they have by all accounts brought this under control. To add insult to injury a rich Chinese businessman is offering to send us 500,000 test kits for free because our health care system is clearly not as efficient and effective as theirs.