Should we stop listening to the likes of Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation music?

DennisTate · Feb 19, 2020

Willing-heart said:
I'm not sure where to post it so I'll post here...

There is no doubt about it that churches like Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation church are somewhat dangerously heretic and controversial in some of their teachings, music and beliefs... There seems to be a rise in some pastors sound in doctrine and other believers warning us to stay away and stop listening to music related to these churches because in some ways, we are supporting these churches by funding them when we listen to their music. I've always thought of these to be a minor issue as I only rather focus on glorying God and if the music is glorying and full of truth to the word of God as revealed in the Bible then I have no problem playing or sharing it... I'm just curious to know what some of you think regarding these things. Please share in all honesty in love and truth. God bless.

This may be helpful????

After my NDE, I came back fully understanding the power music has over our lives; as God gifted me with an ability to be sensitive to tones held within the music. Now I have an advanced capacity to comprehend what tones are secretly communicating to the Soul. I use this ability when I write, arrange and produce mine (and other's) music. In fact, that is why I typically write the melody first and then put the words down later. For me, music is a message waiting for a translation. An artist is a person whom God has blessed with a tremendous emotional vocabulary to communicate to others (who are still developing their impressions about the world that surrounds them.)

In my NDE, I learned that dark tones and harshly/suggestively sung music (with negative lyrics) listened to over time, makes our mind and Soul progressively distressed and dysfunctional. Usually the artists doing these kinds of songs are typically distressed and dysfunctional themselves. It is because of this that I strongly advise people who are working on fixing their lives or staying on a Light filled path, to stay as far away from such music as much as possible! Unfortunately, much of the "popular music" in today's culture is littered with destructive lyrics and non-nurturing tones. Without being aware, the general public has been trained by the greed based media to actually become entertained by dysfunctional songs, and most people (especially youth) have no clue that much of the music (they are listening to) is actually injuring them emotionally! Some may have an inkling of this fact, but because of media hypnotism, socialized peer pressure, boredom or lack of quality music ... they listen anyway. And we wonder why we have so much violence, materialism, uncontrolled lust and other issues? From what I now understand spiritually, the TV and the radio has just about done modern day culture in! And if we don't start becoming more observant to the negative programming we are filling our minds with day after day, we are going to be caused to become numb to what is actually good for us and not be able to make effectual and lasting "positive" momentum in our lives! We have to train ourselves to pay close attention to how the music we are listening to makes us feel. Does it make us feel peaceful, joyous or dynamic? Or does it leave us feeling aggressive, resentful, bitter, lustful or arrogant? Be careful! Music is powerful stuff. It can either help heal you or hurt you. With all my Heart I advise you to listen wisely!" (Christian Andreason, near-death .com)

Personally..... the music of Hillsong, Elevate and Bethel are playing in my home a lot when my wife and daughter are home and they sure seem to be having a beneficial effect on all of us in the house.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 19, 2020

To all:

In regards to Hillsong: The music is merely Doxology of the Theology. You cannot divorce the two. If you look up on the internet as to why the Theology of why Hillsong church is considered heretical, and that does not bother you, then I cannot help you to see why it is wrong; Only God can show you that if you are willing to see. I cannot imagine any born again Christian (Who has truly surrendered their life to the Lord in all things) would knowingly sing their songs and at the same time turn a blind eye to the the bad teachings that they promote. Perhaps they would sing in ignorance of what they taught. I am guilty of this. I can say that I am guilty of this because not too long ago, I was ignorant of what Hillsong and all of the Christian music industry believed. I had no idea that their Theology was so bad.

I mean, stop and think about this for a second. Are we going to sing songs by JW's and Mormons because they sound good? Surely not. Hillsong are a part of the Word of Faith movement, and prosperity gospel movement. If you believe you can name and claim it, and or you can have your best life now, then by all means, you are never going to see a problem with their music. If you are not bothered by the similarities of worldliness in the Christian music industry, like the flashing lights, and smoke machines, etc. then by all means, you need to mature in the Lord whereby hopefully one day you will see that you want nothing but Jesus and you reject anything that resembles this world.

The Christian music industry is all about Ecumenism or about the gathering of a hodgepodge of different Christian faiths that includes the gathering together of extreme Pentecostalism (like screaming on the ground and barking like animals), or a denial of the Trinity, to the prosperity gospel, Christian Yoga, etc.; The Christian music industry is a business, and it is one primarily of money and not about sticking close to what the Bible really says and uniting in truth. If you were to tell me this several days ago, I probably would not have believed you. Check out the videos within this thread. They were very helpful for me, and they made me to re-examine my walk with Christ.

Rebecca4Christ · Feb 19, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
To all:

In regards to Hillsong: The music is merely Doxology of the Theology. You cannot divorce the two. If you look up on the internet as to why the Theology of why Hillsong church is considered heretical, and that does not bother you, then I cannot help you to see why it is wrong; Only God can show you that if you are willing to see. I cannot imagine any born again Christian (Who has truly surrendered their life to the Lord in all things) would knowingly sing their songs and at the same time turn a blind eye to the the bad teachings that they promote. Perhaps they would sing in ignorance of what they taught. I am guilty of this. I can say that I am guilty of this because not too long ago, I was ignorant of what Hillsong and all of the Christian music industry believed. I had no idea that their Theology was so bad.

I mean, stop and think about this for a second. Are we going to sing songs by JW's and Mormons because they sound good? Surely not. Hillsong are a part of the Word of Faith movement, and prosperity gospel movement. If you believe you can name and claim it, and or you can have your best life now, then by all means, you are never going to see a problem with their music. If you are not bothered by the similarities of worldliness in the Christian music industry, like the flashing lights, and smoke machines, etc. then by all means, you need to mature in the Lord whereby hopefully one day you will see that you want nothing but Jesus and you reject anything that resembles this world.

The Christian music industry is all about Ecumenism or about the gathering of a hodgepodge of different Christian faiths that includes the gathering together of extreme Pentecostalism (like screaming on the ground and barking like animals), or a denial of the Trinity, to the prosperity gospel, Christian Yoga, etc.; The Christian music industry is a business, and it is one primarily of money and not about sticking close to what the Bible really says and uniting in truth. If you were to tell me this several days ago, I probably would not have believed you. Check out the videos within this thread. They were very helpful for me, and they made me to re-examine my walk with Christ.

I wrote about the founder of Hillsong's raping of young

Robin Mauro said:
I heard a radio show on this, on "Christian" radio. Then I heard a pastor lament about how judgemental Christians are. It was regarding a youth pastor showing up as the naked cowboy, having not informed anyone first of what he planned to do. It was a mistake. We all make them. And yes, we should make sure music is Biblical, but we also have to make room for our humanity and not be so quick to judge.
Remember when a group went after and criticized Harry Potter? As certain groups always do...look for reasons to criticize. But Harry Potter was fiction, and was also about good versus evil.
"To the pure, all things are pure, but to the evil, all things are evil."
We need to be careful of the yeast of the pharisees, and not be so quick to judge.

We shouldn't judge Frank Houston's pedophilia, Brian Houston's covering it up, nor the witchcraft in Harry Potter?

Isaiah 5:20

lismore · Feb 19, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
Thank you for your excellent post.
My thoughts are below:

there are several reasons why I don’t prescribe to the “guilt by association” philosophy regarding other believers. 1) it promotes disunity in the body of Christ 2) it presumes I can judge the calling and hearts of other believers (especially worship leaders and teachers) and the purpose for ministry the Holy Spirit is using them to accomplish 3) it requires me to define personally the intentions for the “association,” the depth and meaning of this association, and the motives behind it. The exact same argument is used by many to attack and discredit God fearing, Christ exalting and scripture honoring men of God like Francis Chan, Ravi Zacharias and Rick Warren, which is 100% of the devil in my opinion. If you think those three are false teachers because they have spoken at conferences with false teachers than I will respectfully discontinue further discourse on the matter.

Hello GaveMeJoy. Thanks for your reply. My opinion about the guilt by association would be slightly different. Jesus was labelled a friend of sinners he came to call sinners to repentance and to seek and save the lost, but he was unique. I think we're more vulnerable. For us the bible gives many warnings, 'Be warned, bad company corrupts good character' (1 Corinthians 15:33) and also Matthew 24:24 'false prophets shall arise to deceive even the elect'. 1 Corinthians 5:11 warns us not to associate with dubious people, not to even share a meal with them. Also 'what fellowship does light have with darkness' (2 Corinthians 6:14). 2 Timothy 3:13- false teachers will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. There's no helping a false teacher, they'll grow worse and worse.

As my grandad used to say 'birds of a feather flock together' and 'if you fly with the crows you get shot with them'.

To answer point 1. If someone associates with a false prophet, giving social support and a cloak of legitimacy to the false prophet, they've revealed their true colours. Keeping away from that person is not dividing the body, it's protecting yourself from another false prophet.

Point 2) Jesus said- 'By their fruits you will know them' (Matthew 7:16). There are wolves in sheep's clothing in the church (Matthew 7:15). When we see a wolf, acting as a wolf, keeping away is the only reasonable idea.

Point 3) I believe there's only one motivation for association with a false prophet. Birds of a feather.

I'm sorry I'm not hugely familiar with the three persons that you posted, Chan, Zacharias and Warren. Can't comment. But, on a general note, are you sure you're not putting these three teachers on a pedestal? Which false prophets did these three teachers share a platform with?

God Bless

lismore · Feb 19, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
Thank you for your excellent post.
The exact same argument is used by many to attack and discredit God fearing, Christ exalting and scripture honoring men of God like Francis Chan

Hello GaveMeJoy. I did a quick search on Francis Chan- a new person for me:

The popular author and former pastor recently came under scrutiny for appearing on the same stage as televangelist Benny Hinn and evangelist Todd White when he was the top-billed speaker at The Send, a 60,000-person rally held in an Orlando stadium last month.

The event (not to be confused with Send International or the North American Mission Board’s Send Conference) was a collaboration involving several major leaders in the charismatic and New Apostolic Reformation movement, including The Call’s Lou Engle, Bethel Church’s Bill Johnson, and International House of Prayer’s Mike Bickle.

Francis Chan Explains Why He’ll Share a Stage With Benny Hinn

He shared a stage with Benny Hinn, Lou Engle and Mike Bickle.

Mr Bickle I have heard of, he made so many false prophecies that he is reported as saying that modern day prophets are right only 35% of the time. The bible says that we know a true prophet because all of their words come to pass. That is the biblical definition of a prophet. There are fair-ground clairvoyants who do better than Mr Bickle.

Mr Engle I have heard of. He was at a meeting with a dozen or so other self appointed apostles and prophets kissing the Pope's representative on the feet, vid on the net.

Benny Hinn I have heard of.

I would advise caution. I have never yet seen a wildlife documentary where a sheep goes running with the wolf-pack to try and turn them into sheep. God Bless

Bible Highlighter · Feb 19, 2020

Rebecca4Christ said:
I wrote about the founder of Hillsong's raping of young

Yes, I caught you saying that. This is an extremely bad sin. They could repent of such sins (seeking forgiveness of the Lord over it and publicly declare their error), but they obviously haven't. But to make matters worse, they are also actively involved in current theological heresies (like the Word of Faith movement, and the prosperity gospel, fleecing the flock, etc.). These are also bad sins in my opinion, as well.

lismore · Feb 19, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Yes, I caught you saying that. This is an extremely bad sin. They could repent of such sins (seeking forgiveness of the Lord over it and publicly declare their error), but they obviously haven't. But to make matters worse, they are also actively involved in current theological heresies (like the Word of Faith movement, and the prosperity gospel, fleecing the flock, etc.). These are also bad sins in my opinion, as well.

There was a rugby player 'Israel Folau' was castigated and fired for tweeting a bible verse. I saw Brian Houston's response to Israel Folau, telling him to show more love and less judgement. Israel Folau quoted what the bible said word for word, it's not about love or judgement, it's about truth- the truth Brian Houston is ashamed of. The big crowds come, not to hear truth but for the show and the sugar coated lie. God Bless

GaveMeJoy · Feb 19, 2020

lismore said:
Hello GaveMeJoy. Thanks for your reply. My opinion about the guilt by association would be slightly different. Jesus was labelled a friend of sinners he came to call sinners to repentance and to seek and save the lost, but he was unique. I think we're more vulnerable. For us the bible gives many warnings, 'Be warned, bad company corrupts good character' (1 Corinthians 15:33) and also Matthew 24:24 'false prophets shall arise to deceive even the elect'. 1 Corinthians 5:11 warns us not to associate with dubious people, not to even share a meal with them. Also 'what fellowship does light have with darkness' (2 Corinthians 6:14). 2 Timothy 3:13- false teachers will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. There's no helping a false teacher, they'll grow worse and worse.

As my grandad used to say 'birds of a feather flock together' and 'if you fly with the crows you get shot with them'.

To answer point 1. If someone associates with a false prophet, giving social support and a cloak of legitimacy to the false prophet, they've revealed their true colours. Keeping away from that person is not dividing the body, it's protecting yourself from another false prophet.

Point 2) Jesus said- 'By their fruits you will know them' (Matthew 7:16). There are wolves in sheep's clothing in the church (Matthew 7:15). When we see a wolf, acting as a wolf, keeping away is the only reasonable idea.

Point 3) I believe there's only one motivation for association with a false prophet. Birds of a feather.

I'm sorry I'm not hugely familiar with the three persons that you posted, Chan, Zacharias and Warren. Can't comment. But, on a general note, are you sure you're not putting these three teachers on a pedestal? Which false prophets did these three teachers share a platform with?

God Bless

I’m definitely not putting them up (although sometimes I do so with Chan) they are just first three I put up off the top of my head who have been slandered for attending and speaking at conferences that also had speakers with poor theology. Chan and Ravi both specifically addressed this criticism public stating they do not agree with the false doctrine (Specifying prosperity gospel, and some other stuff) and that the reason they spoke was to share the true gospel to people who would be receiving false teaching to counter it. chan took a picture with some particular guy that Everyone freaked out about. While it was a poor choice it doesn’t make Chan a false prophet.

I agree with what you shared about friendships with false teachers and the lost, very dangerous and makes us vulnerable. I think this must be done prayerfully and with the sole purpose of evangelism. Also the depth of friendship should be limited in certain ways to avoid negative influences. So I think the verse that says “don’t eat with them” has cultural context regarding what it meant to break bread with someone. I don’t think eating at the same table And being friendly at a conference falls under the intent of this passage.

I also agree regarding calling out false teachers which is why I do so in my first post with hinn and Osteen. The problem is there needs to be a high standard for this. Guys like McArthur use this concept as a pretext to bash and mock other believers which I believe is not of Christ. Evidence for this can be found by YouTube searching the strange fire panel discussions which make a mockery of sincere believers worshiping God.

lismore · Feb 19, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
chan took a picture with some particular guy that Everyone freaked out about. While it was a poor choice it doesn’t make Chan a false prophet.

Hello. Thanks for your reply. Interesting. From the article:

Still, Chan acknowledged that he sees how his participation in certain events—or willingess to take a selfie—can sometimes imply endorsement of fellow speakers and that he does not always research each and every one. As a result of the recent pushback, he said he would consider adding a research team and working with elders to prevent confusion over his future appearances.
Francis Chan Explains Why He’ll Share a Stage With Benny Hinn

Appearing on stage with someone is a form of endorsement and at the very least in this instance it does sow confusion. I think if the biblical direction to separate from false teachers was adopted it would be better. God Bless

GaveMeJoy · Feb 19, 2020

lismore said:
Hello. Thanks for your reply. Appearing on stage with someone is a form of endorsement and at the very least in this instance it does sow confusion. I think if the biblical direction to separate from false teachers was adopted it would be better. God Bless

I understand your perspective and will think about the scripture regarding this more carefully. Would sure hate if the decision to not go onstage to preach the truth to people who are about to be deceived Resulted in more people being deceived. I suppose each teacher will need to consult the Holy Spirit early and often

KagomeShuko · Feb 19, 2020

Willing-heart said:
I'm not sure where to post it so I'll post here...

There is no doubt about it that churches like Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation church are somewhat dangerously heretic and controversial in some of their teachings, music and beliefs... There seems to be a rise in some pastors sound in doctrine and other believers warning us to stay away and stop listening to music related to these churches because in some ways, we are supporting these churches by funding them when we listen to their music. I've always thought of these to be a minor issue as I only rather focus on glorying God and if the music is glorying and full of truth to the word of God as revealed in the Bible then I have no problem playing or sharing it... I'm just curious to know what some of you think regarding these things. Please share in all honesty in love and truth. God bless.

I think you've answered your own question here. You don't have a problem with the music because it glorifies God. I say the same thing and say that supporting these people is also just loving our neighbors. We don't have to agree with theology or beliefs of others in order to treat them like humans and to follow what God has told us. Love your neighbor as yourself. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Ojpalosa · Feb 20, 2020

Daniel Martinovich said:
These are just false accusations by people who have all kinds of heretical teachings themselves. Remove the plank from thinebown eye. Then you might see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers eye.

Exactly how I have felt about this aswell. Especially from Justin Peters, lots of false accusations.

Peter J Barban · Feb 20, 2020

Since we on the topic, what about Hillsong singer Brooke Fraser? She is one of my favorite Christian singers and in videos seems to be a mature Christian.

Other than promoting Hillsong, is there anything about her that I should be concerned about?

Guojing · Feb 20, 2020

Peter J Barban said:
Since we on the topic, what about Hillsong singer Brooke Fraser? She is one of my favorite Christian singers and in videos seems to be a mature Christian.

Other than promoting Hillsong, is there anything about her that I should be concerned about?

Who you say I am is such a wonderful song to renew your mind in.

Rebecca4Christ · Feb 20, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Yes, I caught you saying that. This is an extremely bad sin. They could repent of such sins (seeking forgiveness of the Lord over it and publicly declare their error), but they obviously haven't. But to make matters worse, they are also actively involved in current theological heresies (like the Word of Faith movement, and the prosperity gospel, fleecing the flock, etc.). These are also bad sins in my opinion, as well.

Yes. Well they are wolves and false teachers,but there is a plague of willful blindness among the so called sheep. Many of the people who support them never even open their bible except on church day,and get all of their theology from 711 music. 7 verses sung 11 times.....
So many just want their ears tickled,to hear material promises and motivational speeches and have a safety net from God,while still being just as worldly as the lost. It's only going to get worse.
Going to be a lot of surprised people on judgement day.

Daniel Martinovich · Feb 20, 2020

Rebecca4Christ said:
It's only going to get worse.
Going to be a lot of surprised people on judgement day

Talking about junk, worldly “theology.” Yes, a lot of people are going to be surprised alright.

Psalm 64:All the earth shall worship You And sing praises to You; They shall sing praises to Your name.” Selah

Habakkuk For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory
of the LORD as the waters coverthe sea. ...

Isaiah 60:
1Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

2For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

3And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

4Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.

5Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the wealth of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 20, 2020

lismore said:
There was a rugby player 'Israel Folau' was castigated and fired for tweeting a bible verse. I saw Brian Houston's response to Israel Folau, telling him to show more love and less judgement. Israel Folau quoted what the bible said word for word, it's not about love or judgement, it's about truth- the truth Brian Houston is ashamed of. The big crowds come, not to hear truth but for the show and the sugar coated lie. God Bless

Jesus says we are to pray, and do good, and to love our enemies. We should rebuke them (of course), but we should pray for their souls, and do good back towards them if they do any bad towards us. Sometimes we may get into casting stones so badly it can turn into all out hate and not a desire for them to repent. I think we have to also take a step back and also be reminded to love them even in our rebuke and ask other believers to pray for them so that these false teachers might see.

lismore · Feb 20, 2020

FutureAndAHope said:
I would like to know what is heretical about hillsong, before I made a decision. We can actually be working for satan by calling churches "of the devil", when they may truely be following the leading of the LORD.

Hello Sir.

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves (2 Peter 2:1)

I think this portion of scripture illuminates the issue. The word of God clearly says 'There will be false teachers among you'. God Bless

Robin Mauro · Feb 20, 2020

Rebecca4Christ said:
I wrote about the founder of Hillsong's raping of young

We shouldn't judge Frank Houston's pedophilia, Brian Houston's covering it up, nor the witchcraft in Harry Potter?

Isaiah 5:20

I didn't know about the rape; the thread was about the music, and witchcraft isn't real. Harry Potter is fiction

Bible Highlighter · Feb 20, 2020

Should we stop listening to the likes of Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation music?

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