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Please explain concerning Jesus, "only begotten", "eternal father" Isaiah 9:6, without father or geneology in Hebrews, Thanks, daniel
Please explain concerning Jesus, "only begotten", "eternal father" Isaiah 9:6, without father or ge
- Thread starter Daniel Marsh
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The Trinity is not as easily explained as some would think!
The voice that said to Moses, "I Am that I Am," was the same voice that said, "I Am the light of the world."
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Good question. Christ is the unique Son of God. At the same time, he is our Eternal Father: the maker and upholder of all creatures, John 1:3; Hebrews 1:3; and especially the Father of all believers.
Without father or mother or genealogy is spoken of Melchizedek, who was a type of Christ.
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1213
Disciple of Jesus
I am not sure what to explain. But it is an interesting scripture. It says, “his name shall be called…”. It doesn’t say “he shall be called…”. That is interesting when we notice that God had given his name for Jesus.
…them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
John 17:11
Jesus acted in the name of God. And interestingly disciples of Jesus, and some other people also, acted in the name of God.
John said to him, "Teacher, we saw someone who doesn't follow us casting out demons in your name; and we forbade him, because he doesn't follow us." But Jesus said, "Don't forbid him, for there is no one who will do a mighty work in my name, and be able quickly to speak evil of me.
Mark 9:38-39
And the name is called “Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace”. Isaiah 9:6
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faroukfarouk
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"Only begotten" refers to the unique relationship between the Father and the Son; in Isaiah 9, the phrase 'everlasting Father' reads literally the father of eternity, i.e., the eternal nature of the One Who was to be born.
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Is 9:6 refers to the coming messiah. It's perfectly possible in OT language to call God's representative such as the messiah God. Jesus refers to this tradition in John 10:35 "If those to whom the word of God came were called ‘gods’—and the scripture cannot be annulled" Heb 9:8 is another example. Referring to Jesus it says "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,", which is a quote from Ps 45:6. In its original context this referred to the King of Israel.
Christians consider OT references to the King or the Messiah to refer to Christ because of course he is the Messiah and the King. OT references, which originally used terms like this to refer to God's representative, take on a deeper meaning. Jesus was, of course God's representative (which is why it's right to use these passages for him), but in a deeper sense than the original OT use.
This kind of reuse of OT passages to refer to current events was a legitimate use of the Bible in Jewish tradition. For example, John the Baptist is referred to as Elijah in Mat 11:14, even though he obviously wasn't literally Elijah.
You also ask about "Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever." At first glance this seems odd, since Jesus obviously did have a geneology.
First, this is a reference to the King of Salem, not a direct reference to Jesus, although he is seen as a type of Jesus. The Hermeneia commentary says "The first half of the verse lists several characteristics of Melchizedek inferred by an argument from silence, an interpretive device that Hebrews shares with Philo and rabbinic exegetes. The poetic epithets used here do not simply describe fact of which scripture is silent. They also evoke an image of eternity and transcendence." This is another example of the OT being reapplied to Jesus in a somewhat non-literal sense. There was an actual King of Salem in the OT, who no doubt had both father and mother. But in Jewish interpretation it was taken to be symbolic. Of course Jesus also had a mother and father, but this would refer to Christ in eternity (the Logos).
As you can see, both Jewish and Christian use of the OT isn't simple. It depends upon creative reinterpretation to provide ways of talking about Christ.
Christians consider OT references to the King or the Messiah to refer to Christ because of course he is the Messiah and the King. OT references, which originally used terms like this to refer to God's representative, take on a deeper meaning. Jesus was, of course God's representative (which is why it's right to use these passages for him), but in a deeper sense than the original OT use.
This kind of reuse of OT passages to refer to current events was a legitimate use of the Bible in Jewish tradition. For example, John the Baptist is referred to as Elijah in Mat 11:14, even though he obviously wasn't literally Elijah.
You also ask about "Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever." At first glance this seems odd, since Jesus obviously did have a geneology.
First, this is a reference to the King of Salem, not a direct reference to Jesus, although he is seen as a type of Jesus. The Hermeneia commentary says "The first half of the verse lists several characteristics of Melchizedek inferred by an argument from silence, an interpretive device that Hebrews shares with Philo and rabbinic exegetes. The poetic epithets used here do not simply describe fact of which scripture is silent. They also evoke an image of eternity and transcendence." This is another example of the OT being reapplied to Jesus in a somewhat non-literal sense. There was an actual King of Salem in the OT, who no doubt had both father and mother. But in Jewish interpretation it was taken to be symbolic. Of course Jesus also had a mother and father, but this would refer to Christ in eternity (the Logos).
As you can see, both Jewish and Christian use of the OT isn't simple. It depends upon creative reinterpretation to provide ways of talking about Christ.
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solid_core
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As always, it all comes down to a translation you choose:
For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder, and his name is called the messenger of great counsel, wonderful counsellor, mighty God, potentate, prince of peace, father of the age to come.
Is 9:6
The Lord Jesus brought us His kingdom and new age in the first century. As Daniel prophecised, He is the stone that ended earthly kingdoms.
For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder, and his name is called the messenger of great counsel, wonderful counsellor, mighty God, potentate, prince of peace, father of the age to come.
Is 9:6
The Lord Jesus brought us His kingdom and new age in the first century. As Daniel prophecised, He is the stone that ended earthly kingdoms.
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