When did the Old Covenant truly "disappear" and end?

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Al Touthentop

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what is missing in Rev 20 is not proof by omission as the other passages that speak of what will occur when the LORD is king over all the earth are still valid even if Rev 20 does not mention them.

The Lord is king over all the earth right now. So it would appear that the prophecies came true.

10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
 
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Oldmantook

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Here's why any Christian should understand that Ezekiel 48 was entirely about Jesus.

30 “These are the exits of the city. On the north side, measuring four thousand five hundred cubits 31 (the gates of the city shall be named after the tribes of Israel), the three gates northward: one gate for Reuben, one gate for Judah, and one gate for Levi; 32 on the east side, four thousand five hundred cubits, three gates: one gate for Joseph, one gate for Benjamin, and one gate for Dan; 33 on the south side, measuring four thousand five hundred cubits, three gates: one gate for Simeon, one gate for Issachar, and one gate for Zebulun; 34 on the west side, four thousand five hundred cubits with their three gates: one gate for Gad, one gate for Asher, and one gate for Naphtali. 35 All the way around shall be eighteen thousand cubits; and the name of the city from that day shall be: THE LORD IS THERE.”

And what do you know. The Lord WAS there. Fancy that.

Why do you deny Jesus Christ? If God's prophecies are in error and do not come true, why would you even worship him? You most likely insist that when God determined 70 weeks for the Messiah to come and make a new covenant, what he told Daniel was only half completed in those 70 weeks right?

Why is it that you presume to know the fulfillment times of prophecy better than the apostles, Jesus and God?
Why does it surprise you that the Lord is there? After all, the beginning of Eze 43 states that the glory of the Lord came into the temple by way of the East gate (v.4). If the temple is Jesus as you have claimed all along, why does the glory of the Lord have to enter it? The glory of God is always with Jesus. It doesn't have to enter through some gate - unless of course it is a physical gate of a physical temple. Quite ironically, you have made my point. Fancy that.
 
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Oldmantook

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And there's not a shred of evidence in that prophecy that the prince offered animal sacrifices either is there?
No there isn't if you don't bother to read the text. If you did, then you would have understood that Eze 45:22 states "On that day the prince shall provide for himself and all the people of the land a young bull for a sin offering." Do you actually read the text? Just asking.
 
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Al Touthentop

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Why does it surprise you that the Lord is there?

It doesn't. The prophecy is about Jesus. In fact what it says is that the priests are going to prepare the sacrifice of the prince. It's almost funny the way its worded because unless you look at it as if its fulfilled, you wouldn't recognize the curious way it is put.

That's what they literally did. The Levites, the chief priest himself, took Jesus as a lamb to be slaughtered.
 
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Al Touthentop

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No there isn't if you don't bother to read the text. If you did, then you would have understood that Eze 45:22 states "On that day the prince shall provide for himself and all the people of the land a young bull for a sin offering." Do you actually read the text? Just asking.

Yup. I totally missed that. My bad.
 
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Oldmantook

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You have clearly acquired the popular Premil art of sidestepping the actual text. There is nothing in Ezekiel 40-48 that would suggest that this is an active ongoing unconditional promise to Israel. Quite the opposite! A greater temple followed just a few hundred years after Ezekiel's conditional vision; a temple that would last forever – God’s spiritual temple. The Old Testament sacrifices and ordinances had an expiration date, it was called the cross. Since then Christ is our lone eternal sacrifice for sin. He has rendered the rest needless and obsolete. This was an old covenant promise with old covenant ordinances that is now redundant under the new covenant arrangement. What is more, he was not speaking to some supposed generation of mortal rebels in your semi-corrupt semi-glorious future millennial age. There is zero evidence of that. Premils have created this theory to sustain their view of Revelation 20.

Why would Jesus oversee such a futile sham? Why would He put His blessing upon such a bloody mess for a thousand yrs after His return? If these sacrifices are so apt and important for your supposed future millennial age, why not keep them going for all eternity? Why not bring them back now?

This improved arrangement was never realised. Scripture and history proves that Israel remained in grievous apostasy. Despite God’s offer of better things, they persisted in their stubborn rebellion. The plan was not therefore realised because of disobedience. Israel never met God’s lofty demands. Notwithstanding, the old covenant system could never satisfy God. It would only serve as an imperfect temporal arrangement until a greater plan would come. God would come to Israel's assistance with a divine plan – in the form of His only begotten Son. He would do what the old covenant could never do. He would become the final sin offering.

Is Calvary not enough for Premils?

Is the blood of Jesus not enough?

Was His sacrifice not a final satisfactory sacrifice for all sin from the Father’s perspective?

Is Calvary not an eternal (unending) sacrifice?

Is Calvary not an eternal (unending) covering?

Is Calvary not an eternal (unending) doorway into the presence of God?
You ignored the text that says GOD WILL without any conditions required on Israel's part. How convenient for you. God works out his plan according to His timing - not yours or mine. God has a plan for the Jews and the gentiles some of which is partially fulfilled but some yet to be fulfilled. You believe everything with the old covenant is already done away with. Nothing could be further from the truth. If so, you would also have to explain Zechariah 14 16Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths. 17And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, there will be no rain on them. 18And if the family of Egypt does not go up and present themselves, then on them there shall be no rain;h there shall be the plague with which the Lord afflicts the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths. 19This shall be the punishment to Egypt and the punishment to all the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths.
 
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Al Touthentop

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You ignored the text that says GOD WILL without any conditions required on Israel's part. How convenient for you. God works out his plan according to His timing - not yours or mine. God has a plan for the Jews and the gentiles some of which is partially fulfilled but some yet to be fulfilled.

This is totally wrong. Its one thing to look at old testament prophecy and think that it is yet to be fulfilled, but it is another to look at the plain words of new testament authors who teach that the scriptures were fulfilled when it came to promises to Israel and then dismiss them as cranks. I mean, wouldn't they have to be nuts when you see the old testament prophecies as being yet to come and they didn't?

"Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Christ Our Peace
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Christs purpose was to reconcile the Gentiles and Jews into "one man" or "one body." There are no more things to do for the Jews. He accomplished that purpose and he did it in the time he said he would do it. And who's the one telling us this? The Hebrew of Hebrews, Jew of Jews. Don't you think that he would have preached some coming dispensation for Jews if he thought there was anything at all that had been held back?

You are asserting God still has something yet to accomplish in this regard but the scriptures teach against this idea. What you're saying is that we're still unreconciled and God has to deliver on promises to the Jews which he still hasn't fulfilled. Do you realize that you're rejecting the gospel itself?

There is only one way to the Father and that is through Jesus Christ. There is not a coming covenant with the physical nation of Israel. Jesus fulfilled all.
 
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Oldmantook

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It doesn't. The prophecy is about Jesus. In fact what it says is that the priests are going to prepare the sacrifice of the prince. It's almost funny the way its worded because unless you look at it as if its fulfilled, you wouldn't recognize the curious way it is put.

That's what they literally did. The Levites, the chief priest himself, took Jesus as a lamb to be slaughtered.
If Jesus is the temple as you have claimed, how can the glory of God enter Him if Jesus is already the manifest glory of God? In the future temple, the glory of God enters the East gate. Correct me if I'm wrong but a building/temple can be filled with the glory of God. Jesus however already manifests God's glory so how can his glory enter/re-enter Him? This explains why the temple cannot be Jesus and has t be a literal, physical building.

If you see it as that these animal sacrifices performed are fulfilled in Jesus, then why do the people still continue doing them? Jesus' sacrifice is once for all as it is the perfect sacrifice for sin. No need to shed Jesus' blood again or any other blood from animals. Yet in Ezekiel, we see the animal sacrifices offered repeatedly even on a daily basis as described in Eze 46:13-15. So the daily sacrifice of lamb in Ezekiel cannot be literally fulfilled in the slaughter/atonement of Jesus as they keep practicing animal sacrifice as commanded in Ezekiel.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Except it did, and Paul wrote that it did. And Jesus said he came to fulfill the law and he did. There was no requirement that anyone be "ready" for this. Ready or not, Jesus established the kingdom and made the old law obsolete. That some people later came along and preached heresy isn't of any consequence. The seed of the church is still the scriptures and you can grow a church or a disciple with the same word.
I understand that, what I was illustrating that a new law and a new set of curses (anathemas) were established some centuries later. These curses plague us today much like the law curse did the early Christians who still opted in during the transitional period. As Paul wrote, if you are under the law, you cannot be by the Spirit.

Nowadays, it's questionable based on circumstantial evidence whether people have re-enacted the Moses law curse just by pledging to follow it. Not that I'd want to find out by following with them, let the dead bury their dead as Jesus said.
 
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sovereigngrace

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what is missing in Rev 20 is not proof by omission as the other passages that speak of what will occur when the LORD is king over all the earth are still valid even if Rev 20 does not mention them. The LORD is king in ZEch 14. That river flows year round so life continues after the LORD is king. The LORD is not king until HE comes on a day when Jeruslalem is being overrun and the mt of Olives splits in tow. That new river flows year round and half the water goes east which links to Eze 47 which shows that the dead sea is healed and the LORD keeps his oath and at that time describes specific boundaries for all 12 tribes in that day. You see if I was wrong Israel would never build a 3rd temple or even come together as a nation. But after almost 2000 years there they are and the plans for the 3rd temple and a global peace pact are being worked on right now. At the same time moral conditions globally have equalled that of Sodom and the days of Noah. The one world government is planned for and will come to be out of the collapse of the current system. This preparation is like those looking at Noah's arl and not understanding the flood was coming. So so too now Israel and the temple movement are screaming that the 7 year tirb is literal and the beast is coming as is the two witnesses and the mark and image of the beast.

Ok, so you have nothing!

Could do a detailed comparison between Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20 (the two main often-presented Premil proof texts)?

I see to comparison!
 
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sovereigngrace

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what is missing in Rev 20 is not proof by omission as the other passages that speak of what will occur when the LORD is king over all the earth are still valid even if Rev 20 does not mention them. The LORD is king in ZEch 14. That river flows year round so life continues after the LORD is king. The LORD is not king until HE comes on a day when Jeruslalem is being overrun and the mt of Olives splits in tow. That new river flows year round and half the water goes east which links to Eze 47 which shows that the dead sea is healed and the LORD keeps his oath and at that time describes specific boundaries for all 12 tribes in that day. You see if I was wrong Israel would never build a 3rd temple or even come together as a nation. But after almost 2000 years there they are and the plans for the 3rd temple and a global peace pact are being worked on right now. At the same time moral conditions globally have equalled that of Sodom and the days of Noah. The one world government is planned for and will come to be out of the collapse of the current system. This preparation is like those looking at Noah's arl and not understanding the flood was coming. So so too now Israel and the temple movement are screaming that the 7 year tirb is literal and the beast is coming as is the two witnesses and the mark and image of the beast.

How can Premils reconcile their conflicting “proof-texts” that in one breath “every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles" (Zechariah 14:16-17) and “the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD” (Isaiah 56:6-7) yet in the next breath at the exact same time because Jerusalem is a "holy" place, a prohibition is placed on all Gentiles that "there shall no strangers pass through her any more" (Joel 3:17) and “No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel” (Ezekiel 44:9)?
 
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sovereigngrace

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You ignored the text that says GOD WILL without any conditions required on Israel's part. How convenient for you. God works out his plan according to His timing - not yours or mine. God has a plan for the Jews and the gentiles some of which is partially fulfilled but some yet to be fulfilled. You believe everything with the old covenant is already done away with. Nothing could be further from the truth. If so, you would also have to explain Zechariah 14 16Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths. 17And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, there will be no rain on them. 18And if the family of Egypt does not go up and present themselves, then on them there shall be no rain;h there shall be the plague with which the Lord afflicts the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths. 19This shall be the punishment to Egypt and the punishment to all the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths.

Is Calvary not enough for Premils?

Is the blood of Jesus not enough?

Was His sacrifice not a final satisfactory sacrifice for all sin from the Father’s perspective?

Is Calvary not an eternal (unending) sacrifice?

Is Calvary not an eternal (unending) covering?

Is Calvary not an eternal (unending) doorway into the presence of God?
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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How can Premils reconcile their conflicting “proof-texts” that in one breath “every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles" (Zechariah 14:16-17) and “the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD” (Isaiah 56:6-7) yet in the next breath at the exact same time because Jerusalem is a "holy" place, a prohibition is placed on all Gentiles that "there shall no strangers pass through her any more" (Joel 3:17) and “No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel” (Ezekiel 44:9)?
Good question it would seem that many nations are joined to the LORD in that day and it may not be a ban on any Gentile visiting or passing through but a ban on the uninvited having their way and overtaking the city. The uncircumcised in heart is more proof that it is a future literal event as the boron again experience is promised to those who are called back to the Mountains of Israel in Ezekiel 37 and also in Jer 31 and this is promised to Jews. Who are not yet nationally recognizing the New Covenant which as Paul said they are blind in part until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. We are not there yet. There are some tangles to be sorted out in that day they will be clear and there are far more severe tangles in trying to take a historical perspective on it and current events are lining up with a futurist perspective. I like the question and this is how to study lay out the passages and study them thanks for bringing it up.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Is Calvary not enough for Premils?

Is the blood of Jesus not enough?

Was His sacrifice not a final satisfactory sacrifice for all sin from the Father’s perspective?

Is Calvary not an eternal (unending) sacrifice?

Is Calvary not an eternal (unending) covering?

Is Calvary not an eternal (unending) doorway into the presence of God?
God will keep His word and the prophecy we are talking about agree with your list and you are missing the argument completely. There is not a single soul in heaven from Adam onward that was not redeemed by the blood of Jesus and saved by the new covenant. Even Abraham who was declared righteous was dead and in the grave not heaven being comforted. Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Yet Jesus told of a man name Lazarus and a rich man both in the grave. When Jesus died he descended and led those in Abraham's bosom free. In Rev 5 we see the song;
8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”

So you see we are declaring the sacrifices have any atoning power. The LORD says the 3rd temple will be where the man of sin is revealed with lying signs and wonders that would fool even the elect. Jesus warned of this time and noted that He was rejected and came in the Father's name but added if another comes in His own name Him you will receive. This is future. Jesus spoke of the abomination of desolation as future and if you look now Israel is ready for that 3rd temple which would be a stage for such an event. This would also require a Satanic world government to be coming into power at the same time. Perhaps you are isolated and do not know the worlds condition and values and the movement towards creating such a world government and that all the symbols they use are Satanic. The fact that the man of sin would fool people into believing in him in 2 Thess should have you asking well what lying signs and wonders did he perform and who believed the lie? He is said to begin his persecution of Jews after this sign and then reign for 42 months to meet his end then. He is to be opposed by two witnesses as well and the scale of these events is global not just Israel.
We are seeing right now the world economic system on the verge of a total collapse in the fiat money system. This is being put off by massive new debt to pay off the old debt and all ponzi schemes have an end to them. When this system fails, not if it will bring in teh exact conditions described in teh seal judgments with peace being taken form the earth and a days wage a quart of wheat. The NEw System is seen coming in Rev 13.
 
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mkgal1

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I am sorry if it comes across that way, but that is not my heart. While I am Amil, the Partial Preterist position has never seemed to add up to me. I find many contradictions in it that no one seems to be able to explain. I am just trying to get answers to what appears a confusing and ad-hoc doctrine. I have persisted in asking you because I have enjoyed many of your postings on other matters on this board.
Well - thank you for that.​
My biggest red flag is Partial Preterist's obsession with AD70. This fixation is alarming, unhealthy and plainly unscriptural. To them, it is the focal point of history. Little do they realize, in their preoccupation with this by-gone year, that they are overlooking and undermining the two focal events in Scripture and history – the First Advent and the Second Advent.
Your descriptive words used ("obsession" and "fixation") certainly explain a little bit about WHY it's taken so many years for me to even hear/read about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. It seems that your attitude isn't uncommon. I first began learning about the significance of the destruction of ancient Jerusalem from Ray Vander Laan (and, for some reason, his teaching is more readily accepted in mainstream Protestant churches). This specific series is one that addresses the destruction of Jerusalem (IIRC):



Quoting Ray Vander Laan------->The Jewish Revolts

Jewish people of Jesus' day had a passionate desire for freedom from the domination of the pagan Romans and the oppressive Herod dynasty that had ruled them for many years. Revolt seethed continuously, mostly underground, for more than 100 years from the time Herod became king (37 BC) until the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple (AD 70).It is helpful to realize that this underlying struggle is the backdrop for Jesus' ministry, and why so many hoped he would be a conquering king. This helps us understand why the adulation of the crowds during the triumphal entry reduced Jesus to tears, and probably why many rejected his message. ~ The Jewish Revolts


Another article from RVL:
Jesus and the Jewish Revolts

And....from the Greek Orthodox Study Bible:

in looking up Rev 12:5 it states:

Quoting the Greek Orthodox Study Bible ---->

12:5 ~True Israel brings forth Christ, who after completion of His saving work, ascends to heaven (Ps 2:7-9; 46:6)

12:6 ~ The flight of the woman may refer to the flight of the Jerusalem church (embodying true Israel) to Pella before the outbreak of the Roman war. END

There's a reason for this (what seems to be to you) "fixation" preterists have. The destruction of ancient Jerusalem WAS vastly significant. That doesn't mean that those of us that believe in fulfilled prophecies live in the past, though (as I'm gathering from your comment) or that we believe that the Holy Spirit is now silent. It may seem like "obsession" and "fixation" to those that don't believe Christ fulfilled the prophecies about His "coming" (which is different than His future return) mainly because the clash of beliefs that emphasize the differences. I believe almost the entire Bible can be summed up as this one passage encapsulating the whole plot. It all leads up to this point (when Jesus rightfully took HIs place on the throne of David):

1 Kings 2:4 ~ and so that the Lord will carry out His promise that He made to me: 'If your sons are careful to walk faithfully before Me with their whole mind and heart, you will never fail to have a man on the throne of Israel.'
 
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sovereigngrace

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Well - thank you for that.​

Your descriptive words used ("obsession" and "fixation") certainly explain a little bit about WHY it's taken so many years for me to even hear/read about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. It seems that your attitude isn't uncommon. I first began learning about the significance of ancient Jerusalem from Ray Vander Laan (and, for some reason, his teaching is more readily accepted in mainstream Protestant churches). This specific series is one that addresses the destruction of Jerusalem:



Quoting Ray Vander Laan------->The Jewish Revolts

Jewish people of Jesus' day had a passionate desire for freedom from the domination of the pagan Romans and the oppressive Herod dynasty that had ruled them for many years. Revolt seethed continuously, mostly underground, for more than 100 years from the time Herod became king (37 BC) until the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple (AD 70).It is helpful to realize that this underlying struggle is the backdrop for Jesus' ministry, and why so many hoped he would be a conquering king. This helps us understand why the adulation of the crowds during the triumphal entry reduced Jesus to tears, and probably why many rejected his message. ~ The Jewish Revolts


Another article from RVL:
Jesus and the Jewish Revolts

And....from the Greek Orthodox Study Bible:

in looking up Rev 12:5 it states:

Quoting the Greek Orthodox Study Bible ---->

12:5 ~True Israel brings forth Christ, who after completion of His saving work, ascends to heaven (Ps 2:7-9; 46:6)

12:6 ~ The flight of the woman may refer to the flight of the Jerusalem church (embodying true Israel) to Pella before the outbreak of the Roman war. END​
There's a reason for this (what seems to be to you) "fixation" preterists have. The destruction of ancient Jerusalem WAS vastly significant. That doesn't mean that those of us that believe in fulfilled prophecies live in the past, though (as I'm gathering from your comment) or that we believe that the Holy Spirit is now silent. It may seem like "obsession" and "fixation" to those that don't believe Christ fulfilled the prophecies about His "coming" (which is different than His future return) mainly because the clash of beliefs that emphasize the differences. I believe almost the entire Bible can be summed up as this one passage encapsulating the whole plot. It all leads up to this point (when Jesus rightfully took HIs place on the throne of David):

1 Kings 2:4 ~ and so that the Lord will carry out His promise that He made to me: 'If your sons are careful to walk faithfully before Me with their whole mind and heart, you will never fail to have a man on the throne of Israel.'

So, is there a termination point to sin, sinners, death, decay and Satan on this earth? And if so, when?
 
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mkgal1

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So, is there a termination point to sin, sinners, death, decay and Satan on this earth? And if so, when?
My belief about an end of sin isn't necessarily a "preterist" belief (there isn't one unified belief in that area). I'm of the belief that the Resurrection, the New Covenant, and the demise of the Old Covenant removed the "condemnation" from sin (the death).....but sin is obviously still around us (and even IN us at times).

However......I don't believe there is "lawlessness" any longer as the Law has been removed. I believe the process of "holiness" or "wholeness" will be continual until all has been purified and all the "dross" burned off (however God will do that? I have no idea). The when, I believe, is up to humanity - because I am of the mind that we are participants in the process. I don't believe that there is an expiration date or time. The label for that belief is: Apocatastasis - OrthodoxWiki
 
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Well - thank you for that.​

Your descriptive words used ("obsession" and "fixation") certainly explain a little bit about WHY it's taken so many years for me to even hear/read about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. It seems that your attitude isn't uncommon. I first began learning about the significance of the destruction of ancient Jerusalem from Ray Vander Laan (and, for some reason, his teaching is more readily accepted in mainstream Protestant churches). This specific series is one that addresses the destruction of Jerusalem (IIRC):



Quoting Ray Vander Laan------->The Jewish Revolts

Jewish people of Jesus' day had a passionate desire for freedom from the domination of the pagan Romans and the oppressive Herod dynasty that had ruled them for many years. Revolt seethed continuously, mostly underground, for more than 100 years from the time Herod became king (37 BC) until the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple (AD 70).It is helpful to realize that this underlying struggle is the backdrop for Jesus' ministry, and why so many hoped he would be a conquering king. This helps us understand why the adulation of the crowds during the triumphal entry reduced Jesus to tears, and probably why many rejected his message. ~ The Jewish Revolts


Another article from RVL:
Jesus and the Jewish Revolts

And....from the Greek Orthodox Study Bible:

in looking up Rev 12:5 it states:

Quoting the Greek Orthodox Study Bible ---->

12:5 ~True Israel brings forth Christ, who after completion of His saving work, ascends to heaven (Ps 2:7-9; 46:6)

12:6 ~ The flight of the woman may refer to the flight of the Jerusalem church (embodying true Israel) to Pella before the outbreak of the Roman war. END

There's a reason for this (what seems to be to you) "fixation" preterists have. The destruction of ancient Jerusalem WAS vastly significant. That doesn't mean that those of us that believe in fulfilled prophecies live in the past, though (as I'm gathering from your comment) or that we believe that the Holy Spirit is now silent. It may seem like "obsession" and "fixation" to those that don't believe Christ fulfilled the prophecies about His "coming" (which is different than His future return) mainly because the clash of beliefs that emphasize the differences. I believe almost the entire Bible can be summed up as this one passage encapsulating the whole plot. It all leads up to this point (when Jesus rightfully took HIs place on the throne of David):

1 Kings 2:4 ~ and so that the Lord will carry out His promise that He made to me: 'If your sons are careful to walk faithfully before Me with their whole mind and heart, you will never fail to have a man on the throne of Israel.'

Preterism seems to be a reaction then to Israel's carnal desires back 2000 years ago. But we know, or should know, that religious men have a distorted view of right and wrong. The Jews were no different. It doesn't really matter what the "passionate desire" of "Jewish people of Jesus' day" was. Man has proved himself to be corrupt, confused, prejudiced, blind, misguided, and self-centered for thousands of years. That is a man-centered gospel. The issue really is: what was God's plan?

It was to deliver man from his sin and give him eternal life so that he would never perish. This is why faithful Israel was looking for a Redeemer that would save them from their sin, not the Roman soldiers. Jesus never started an uprising to remove the Romans. No! His heart was to remove Israel's sin.

The Scriptures are essentially God revealing Himself to mankind through the communication of knowledge. As we analyze the ancient Hebrew text we see a notable and central theme mounting: that of the arrival of a Redeemer Messiah to rescue man from his sinful condition. This came in the form of direct prophecies, old covenant offices, ceremonial typology and a tapestry of unfolding preparation. In fact, Jesus Christ is the key to understanding the biblical covenants. Even though they did not have a full revelation of Him, the old covenant prophets were preoccupied with Christ’s person, His appearance and His ministry. The Old Testament text gradually and assuredly steered history onward to the fulfillment of every ancient promise. There is a steady unfolding continuity of plan and purpose from the Old to the New Testament, concentrated on the promised Messiah. Christ is indeed God’s final and fullest revelation.

Rev. Nicholas T. Batzig (an associate editor for Ligonier Ministries) observes: “While Christians profess that Jesus is the fulfillment of all of the preparatory and anticipatory aspects of the Old Testament, many lack the overarching framework by which the individual parts find their place in the grand narrative of God’s plan of redemption.” He adds: “Jesus fulfilled each and every single shadowy and typical aspect of the old covenant ceremonial law … In short, Jesus fulfills every preparatory and anticipatory aspect of the history of redemption in the Old Testament in general” (Who Is the True Israel of God?).

Kim Riddlebarger cogently observes: “the national/temporal promises of a land, a temple, a priesthood, the sacrifices and so on, made to Israel under the old covenant actually point to something far greater (heavenly promises) and which are fulfilled in Christ. Thus, under the new covenant believers are now called out from among all nations (including Israel) to belong to Christ’s Church, which is the visible manifestation of the new covenant people of God” (John MacArthur on Calvinism, Dispensationalism, Israel and Hermeneutics: A Few Comments).

There is nothing greater emphasized in the New Testament than how Christ is heir to all the Old Testament promises and prophecies relating to the promised Messiah. Throughout it we repeatedly see it stated that Christ was here to fulfil a foreordained plan. He was indeed a man on a mission. Our Lord’s whole life from the cradle to the cross, and thereafter, was a catalogue of confirmations of Old Testament truth. Jesus continually stressed the importance of accomplished prophecy, by stating “It is written” or asking “Have ye not read?” He would then follow this preamble up with a quote from the Hebrew text in order to explain a truth, reinforce a point or prove a fulfilment.

Jesus reveals, in Matthew 13:17, that the old covenant prophets and righteous leaders longed for His day, asserting: “verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.” He was the long-anticipated deliver of Israel. Nathanael testified to Philip in John 1:45: “We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.” Our Lord accomplished every expectation that the Old Testament writers predicted.

Speaking about Christ’s words in John 16:33, F.F. Bruce explains: “The perfect tense ‘I have overcome’ suggests the change in eschatological outlook that takes place when we pass from the Old Testament to the New. In the Old Testament, eschatology is forward-looking; its dominant notes are those of hope and promise. While these notes are not absent from the New Testament, the dominant note is that of fulfilment: in the ministry of Jesus the long-expected ‘kingdom of God’ is present, and through His death Resurrection, and Exaltation it comes with power” (Eschatology, London Quarterly & Holborn Review).

Jesus famously rebuked the two downcast disciples on the road to Emmaus on resurrection day, stating: “O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?” (Luke 24:25-26). After this, he began to open their eyes to the meaning of the sacred pages. Luke 24:25 records: “And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.”

His intent was to confirm that He completed every demand that was made of Him from the ancient inspired pages. His life was the perfect realization of predicted Old Testament prophecy.

The New Testament writers were equally aware of the importance of Old Testament prophecy and its focus on the life and ministry of Christ. They often referenced the Hebrew text to reinforce the fulfillment of numerous Old Testament predictions pertaining to the life of Jesus. Matthew especially brings this out.
 
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mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
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This explains why the temple cannot be Jesus and has t be a literal, physical building.
Acts 7:48-49 ~ However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says: Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool.

Isaiah 66:1
This is what the LORD says: "Heaven is My throne, and earth is My footstool. What kind of house will you build for Me? Or where will My place of repose be?

Acts 17:24
The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and
does not live in temples made by human hands.

2 Corinthians 5:1
Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is dismantled, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.
 
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