OSAS AND ETERNAL SECURITY

Skidder said:

You really don't know what happened on that hill do you? If you did you would not only preach it, but defend it. If the work of His cross could be undone the offense of the cross would be abolished. Why do you think Paul told the church in Corinth all He wanted from them is Jesus Christ and Him Crucified?

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Do you scratch your head when you read this verse? Is this what you have been giving me, or what I have been giving you? If you don't believe me, just go back and read my posts. This is the message I have been preaching and defending the whole time. Why? Because this my only hope I have for my sins!!! If this were your only hope YOU WOULD DO THE SAME!!!

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Christ atonement sacrifice has been described over a dozen ways and is a huge topic I could write a book on.
You have to keep the objective in mind all the time, because the objective drives everything and it is not God’s objective, but man’s objective, since God’s objective is doing or allowing everything that does happen to help willing individuals fulfill their earthly objective.

Christ going to the cross is not to help God out with some problem God is having (like unable to forgive without seeing blood first or a problem with satan), but Christ did it to help willing humans in fulfilling their objective.

Peter gives the first and very best, for his audience, “Christ Crucified” sermon in Acts 2 so please read Acts 2:14-41 which is very short and to the point.

Listen, not only, to what Peter said, but what Peter did not say. Peter did not say: Christ went in your place to the cross, Christ defeated satan, sin or death on the cross, do you (the audience) feel the Love or Christ did this to satisfy God’s wrath. What Peter emphasized was the fact: “You cruelly tortured and murdered the Messiah Jesus”, it was not to be a feel-good sermon, but a really hard sermon for the crowd to listen to. The sermon was to get them so far down they had no where to turn and desperately said: “What can we do?!” The crowd should have been expecting lighting to come down from heaven to destroy them, but instead heard the good news gift Acts 2:38.

When those first century people realized what they did they had a death blow to their heart (the worst feeling they could have and live), so should we not experience the same feeling when we come to realize what we cause Christ to go through.

God making and allowing this unbelievable huge tragedy the product of my sin, makes my sin debt unbelievably huge, but that helps in my fulfilling my objective, the greater the tragedy I initially caused the better for me. (I am not saying sin all the more, but my sins put Christ on the cross).

Man’s objective is found in the God given Mission statement of: Loving God (and secondly Loving others) with all your heart, soul, mind and energy. In order to fulfill that mission man must first obtain Godly type Love which will make man like God Himself in that man will Love like God Loves. Would becoming like God Himself not be the greatest gift we could get?

The objective is not to never ever sin, but to obtain this Godly type Love is the first of man’s objective.

There are just something even an all-powerful Creator cannot do (there are things impossible to do), the big inability for us is to be created with instinctive (programmed) Godly type Love, since Godly type Love is not instinctive. Godly type love has to be the result of a free will decision by the being, to make it the person’s Love apart from God. In other words: If the Love was in a human from the human’s creation it would be a robotic type love and not a Godly type Love. Also if God “forces” this Love on a person (Kind a like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun) it would not be “loving” on God’s part and the love forced on the person would not be Godly type love. This Love has to be the result of a free will moral choice with real likely alternatives (for humans those alternatives include the perceived pleasures of sin for a season.)



This Love is way beyond anything humans could develop, obtain, learn, earn, pay back or ever deserve, so it must be the result of a gift that is accepted or rejected (a free will choice).

This “Love” is much more than just an emotional feeling; it is God Himself (God is Love). If you see this Love you see God.

All mature adults do stuff that hurts others (this is called sin) these transgressions weigh on them burden them to the point the individual seeks relief (at least early on before they allow their hearts to be hardened). Lots of “alternatives” can be tried for relief, but the only true relief comes from God with forgiveness (this forgiveness is pure charity [grace/mercy/Love]). The correct humble acceptance of this Forgiveness (Charity) automatically will result in Love (we are taught by Jesus (Luke 7: 36-50) and our own experience “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”). Sin is thus made hugely significant, so there will be an unbelievable huge debt to be forgiven of and thus result in an unbelievable huge “Love” (Godly type Love).

In order to be forgiven of sin you must first sin, so sin is necessary but not desired.

This messed up world is actually the very best place for willing mature adult individuals to see, receive, give, experience, accept and know Godly type Love. All these tragedies provide opportunities for Love, but that does not mean we go around causing opportunities, since we are to be ceasing these opportunities (there are plenty of opportunities) to show/experience Love.

OK we can work from there, if you want to go deeper.

Paul in Ro. 3:25 giving the extreme contrast between the way sins where handle prior to the cross and after the cross, so if they were actually handled the same way “by the cross” there would be no contrast, only a time factor, but Paul seems to say: (forgiven) sins prior to the cross where left “unpunished” (NIV), but that also would mean the forgiven “sinner” after the cross were punished.

From Romans 3: 25 Paul tells us: God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. …

Another way of saying this would be “God offers the ransom payment (Christ Crucified and the blood that flowed from Him) to those that have the faith to receive that ransom. A lack of faith results in the refusal of the ransom payment (Christ crucified).

Paul goes on to explain:

Ro. 3: 25 …He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished

I do not like the word “unpunished” but would use “undisciplined”.

So prior to the cross repentant forgiven people (saved individuals) could not be fairly and justly disciplined for the rebellious disobedience, but after the cross if we repent (come to our senses and turn to God) we can be fairly and justly disciplined and yet survive.

God and Christ would have personally preferred Christ’s blood to remain flowing through his veins, but it is I that need to have that blood outside of Christ flowing over me and in me cleansing my heart. I need to feel that blood and know it is cleansing me.

Some might try to put the need for blood on God making Him blood thirsty, but Christ says: John 6: 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

It is not God needing that blood, but I am blood thirsty for eternal life and God/Christ have provided that blood. I personally need to physically feel Christ’s blood in the symbolic wine flow down my throat and over my heart to experience and know cleansing.

A lot is made of the word “for” being used in “Christ died for us” suggesting it must mean “instead of”, but any good word study of all the Greek words translated “for” would yield more likely interpretations of “for”. If the writers wanted to convey the idea of “instead of” they should have used the Greek word “anti” which can mean “instead of”. The Greek word translate “for” are translated mostly mean “because of” or “to the benefit of” and even anti has that meaning sometimes, so “Christ died for us” would mean “Christ died as a benefit to us” and “Christ died for our sins” would translate “Christ died because of our sins”.

Atonement is one of those religious concepts which is best understood through experiencing it, then trying to explain it. Unfortunately, the new Christian is filled with ideas about atonement prior to experiencing it, so they are brain washed into trying to feel something that does not happen and quenching what should happen.

One of the advantages the Jews before Christ’s sacrifice had with atonement was personally going through the atonement process for very minor sins (unintentional sins). Lev. 5 explains why, what sinner goes through in the atonement process and might be a good place to start, since Lev. 4-5 is where atonement begins. There is also the advantage of the Lev. 5 atonement being for the individuals personal and actual sins.

We might be able to take the atonement process for very minor sins and extrapolate up to what it could be like for rebellious disobedience directly towards God requiring death for the sinner with no atonement possible under the Old Law.

It would be best to imagen yourself as a first century (BC) Jewish man who just accidently touched a dead unclean animal. If you are real poor you are going to have to work an extra job help someone else for money to buy a sack of flour. If you live in the city and have money you are going to have to go out and buy a lamb and some grain to feed it. You are not a shepherd, so you will have to drag or carry a balling, thirsty and hungry lamb to the altar. You get up early to hike into Jerusalem wait in line for hours to hand the flour or lamb to the priest and watch them go through their part of the atonement process which if you all did everything right will result in God forgiving you and you feeling forgiven.

There is more to what and why this happens which we can find in Lev. 5:

5…they must confess in what way they have sinned. (which we need to do in the atonement process)

6 As a penalty for the sin they have committed… Here the reason for atonement is given “as a penalty” (punishment but better translated disciplining).

If the sacrifice was made as a “payment” for a sin: these sins are all the same and God considers all people the same, so the sacrifice would need to be the same (a lamb for all or doves for all or flour for all) but they are not the same. The different values of the sacrifices, is an attempt to equalize the hardship/penalty (disciplining) on the sinners and does not suggest a payment being made to God especially a payment to forgive a sin. God does not need a bag of flour to forgive sins.

The intention of the sinner going through all this, would be, all the benefits that come from being Lovingly disciplined.

We really need to go through every verse relating to atonement and sacrifice to gleam a true understanding, but you asked for other word used to describe Jesus’ sacrifice:

Jesus, Paul, Peter, John and the writer of Hebrews all describe Christ torturous, humiliating murder as a ransom payment.

When we talk to nonbelievers, we are not trying to get them to believe some book, words, doctrine or philosophy, but we want them to accept through faith Jesus Christ and Him crucified. If that nonbeliever trust (has faith) in Christ and Him crucified a child is released and allowed to enter the kingdom where God the Father is, but if the nonbeliever refuses for lack of faith in Jesus Christ and Him crucified, a child is not set free to go to the Father.

Does this not sound very much like a kidnapping scenario with a ransom being offered?

“Jesus Christ and Him crucified” is described in scripture as the ransom payment?

Would the sinner holding a child of God out of the Kingdom of God describe a kidnapper?

“Jesus Christ and Him crucified” is a huge sacrificial payment, like you find with children being ransomed?

God is not a criminal undeserving kidnapper holding His own children and satan is not changeable nor has he the power to hold God’s child back from God, so the unbeliever is the only excellent fit for the kidnapper in the atonement process. Are at least some of the unbelieving sinner the same person who goes to be with God or do some unbelieving sinners experience a new birth to become a new person which can now enter the Kingdom?

Skidder said:

You really don't know what happened on that hill do you? If you did you would not only preach it, but defend it. If the work of His cross could be undone the offense of the cross would be abolished. Why do you think Paul told the church in Corinth all He wanted from them is Jesus Christ and Him Crucified?

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Do you scratch your head when you read this verse? Is this what you have been giving me, or what I have been giving you? If you don't believe me, just go back and read my posts. This is the message I have been preaching and defending the whole time. Why? Because this my only hope I have for my sins!!! If this were your only hope YOU WOULD DO THE SAME!!!

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Paul said that because they were new Christians who were still fleshly and they could not understand the FULL message.

“And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:1-3‬ ‭NASB‬‬

The true message of the gospel will not advocate sin and disobedience to God. Your message does exactly that. You constantly run away from the scriptures. Our beliefs must coincide with ALL SCRIPTURE not just bits and pieces my friend. This is why you refuse to comment on scriptures like Matthew 7:21-27 and John 15:1-10. Jesus’ atonement will not be imputed on those who do not abide in Him and do not act on His words. This is irrefutable.

Skidder said:

If you can't see "It is finished", and what it really means to be "crucified with Christ", you will never preach His body and blood as the only sacrifice for sins, but a mixture with your old man (body ruled by sin).

Sin is what separates us from God. And there is no remission of sins apart from His blood. Human effort could never save us and never will.

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His suffering had finished.

“Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭19:30‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Nowhere in scripture does it say our salvation is finished when we believe. We must abide in Christ to the end.

“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:6‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:10-13‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one. Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised. FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY. BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:32-39‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Sorry about the ALL CAPS letters. My bible app automatically puts all OT references in the NT in all cap letters.

“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8:13‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved. For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:17-22‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9-18‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach- if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:21-23‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4:1-2‬ ‭NASB

“Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3:12-14‬ ‭NASB‬‬

That’s a lot of scripture there that your theology is denying.

“I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:1-5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

BNR32FAN said:

His suffering had finished.

“Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭19:30‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Nowhere in scripture does it say our salvation is finished when we believe. We must abide in Christ to the end.

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Jesus' statement says it all. What do you think He meant when He said "it is finished"? The single Greek word means "paid in full" and was used in commerce that way.

So, what was "paid in full" while Jesus was still alive on the cross? Payment for the debt of sin. Of all of humanity. That's what.

But, apparently, you disagree with Jesus and want to believe that there is MORE to be done or accomplished for salvation. There isn't more. He paid it all. Period.

Abiding in Christ refers to fellowship. It cannot refer to relationship because we don't have any power or authority over relationship. Can you remove your parents' DNA? Of course not. Once a child, always a child. Period. The same whether physical or spiritual.

What we DO have the power or ability to do is mess up fellowship. Just ask any married couple for over 5 years. They will all have examples of how to mess up fellowship between each other.

“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:6‬ ‭NASB‬‬

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Just ask yourself what's the subject of v.1-6? It's about fruit production, not how to get saved, or how to stay saved.

Skidder said:

Well said!

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The same can be said of your posts as well.

Skidder said:

Hope you got some sleep!

I agree 100% and that is why I preach His cross as the only remedy for sin: past, present, and future. This victory is not just for the initial penalty of sin but the everyday power of sin. Salvation is past, present and future and that is why it's called "eternal life". I believe we can lose our salvation over sin if turn away from His grace, even unto death in this mortal life, but not from the penalty of sin. I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved... this is eternal life.

One of the verses I used to preach, when I thought I could lose my salvation from the penalty of sin, is Heb 6. At the time I didn't realize this chastening was for me, trying to crucify the Son all over again by claiming His crucifixion was not good enough the first time.

Please read this, something I wrote awhile back to some friends in Christ about Heb 6...

Crucifying the Son all over again.

Hebrews 6:1-6
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Confusion is not from Him who called us, and one of the best remedies for confusion is context.

Context of scripture is often overlooked when verses may appear to contradict the cross of Christ. A common rationale is to declare that the party in question were not true believers to begin with. Now this is a reasonable position to take, because we know that we cannot be uncrucified with Christ. And by no means am I insinuating that other exhortations are not addressing the unconverted. But in this section I believe they are Christians who have already been crucified with Christ, who are trying to be brought back to their “initial repentance” and "faith toward God".

“1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.”

The context in verses 1 and 2 are clearly referring to the elementary principles of Christ: repentance, FAITH toward God, baptisms, laying on of hands, and the resurrection from the dead. These first two verses must not be neglected if we are to understand the following verses…

“ 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.”

I believe to be a partaker of the Holy Spirit and to be enlightened by Him you must know Him, and the only way to taste the word of God (who is Christ) and the powers of the ages to come, one must be translated into the Kingdom of His Son. A person cannot partake from the table of Christ and the table of demons. And how does one fall away from something they were never part of? And where do you draw the line on “repentance”? Does one reach a certain plateau of holiness that is visible to men?

2 Corinthians 6:14-15 For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?

1 Corinthians 10:21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord’s table and of the table of demons.

2 Peter 3:13 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

So this brings us to what I believe is the key to understanding this section... “repentance”. First we must know that repentance ALWAYS precedes salvation. Was John’s birth and ministry of repentance not six months prior to the birth and ministry of our Salvation who is Christ? “Metanoia” (repentance) in the Greek is the “turning of the heart” or "change of mind" (under the modern definition) toward our salvation Jesus Christ. This is a work of the Holy Spirit through the Gospel of Grace. And we must understand that scripture is not always referring to our CURRENT repentance, but also our INITIAL. Just like we are SAVED from the “penalty of sin”, but we are also BEING SAVED from the “power of sin” through that same precious love story of “Jesus Christ and Him Crucified”! Both repentance and salvation are according to HIS GRACE, both INITIAL and CURRENT. And that is why the Gospel is the POWER of God (((UNTO))) SALVATION… faith in Christ! So I believe the context of this repentance is referring to individuals being brought back to “initial repentance” and "Faith toward God".

Not sure what the open demonstrations consisted of, but my guess is they were trying to bring someone back from spiritual death, openly, in front of witnesses by rebaptizing them (or, maybe burning sacrifice, but I think in this verse it was baptizing). Their actual demonstrations are unknown, but the content clearly supports the initial FOUNDATION of repentance and faith towards God (salvation). How else could they crucify the Son of God AGAIN openly if not by bringing a believer back from the dead in front of witnesses? Remember, verse 2 also mentions “resurrection from the dead and doctrines of baptisms”, which I believe also support the context of initial repentance and salvation. And that is why their actions deserved a good solid chastening!! Very serious actions indeed! It would be like proclaiming openly that Christ Crucified was not good enough the first time!

Grace and Peace...

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Your making 1 Corinthians 6:14-15 into something that Paul is not saying. Paul is not saying that we are incapable of partaking with evil in fact he is saying the exact opposite, that we can but we should not. Read verse 13 along with 14 & 15 and it becomes quite clear.

“Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭NASB‬

Again in 1 Corinthians 10 Paul is saying the same thing that we are capable of partaking in evil but we should not. In both of these cases Paul is saying to the believers that they should not support the actions of sin. That is the message. He’s not saying that a true believer is incapable of doing this but that they shouldn’t do this. If that were the case he wouldn’t have to tell believers not to do these things.

IMO or understanding of the word of God under the leadership of the Holy Spirit.

Salvation is a done deal! It was a redemptive process purchased at Calvary by Jesus,God's son.
"It is finished",and can NEVER be undone!

Now on to this fact!
We must endure unto the end to be saved. Mt.24:13

Rms.5:9 justified by His blood,and saved from God's wrath.

I fully believe salvation is a free gift of God to a world facing the PENALITY of sin!

I do not believe we can ever save ourselves,however I do believe and know that our personal walk with Him can falter to unconfessed sin and completely separate us from God!

I do NOT believe my present nor future sins are forgiven until I confess them to God through Jesus and ask for forgiveness. 1 Jn.1:9
He,Jesus is our advocate and our way to the Father.1 Jn.2:1


I served and walked with Him many years,then I let circumstances and sin I did not confess lead me into a backslidden condition. Now some will say I was never saved to begin with.....lol. God alone knows the heart of man,no human flesh does!

I will now be called a salvation loser....lol no matter,I alone know my life..

Just as He said in Rev 2:4/5,leaving my first love and falling,I had to REPENT AND DO THE FIRST WORKS again.
Now I am not a works for salvation believer but I can show you MY FAITH,by my works of studying praying,sharing the word,loving and helping others.

I'm just posting my position bc we ALL ANSWER TO A JUST GOD. I will.not be responding to quotes nor response to my post. Ty.

Blessings all!

How are thes not contradicting statements?

OneOfTheMasters said:

Salvation is a done deal! It was a redemptive process purchased at Calvary by Jesus,God's son.
"It is finished",and can NEVER be undone!

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OneOfTheMasters said:

Now on to this fact!
We must endure unto the end to be saved. Mt.24:13

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OneOfTheMasters said:

Just as He said in Rev 2:4/5,leaving my first love and falling,I had to REPENT AND DO THE FIRST WORKS again.
Now I am not a works for salvation believer but I can show you MY FAITH,by my works of studying praying,sharing the word,loving and helping others.

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What would’ve happened if you didn’t go back to your first love like Jesus said to the church in Ephesus? Would He remove your lampstand? If you didn’t go back to your first love would that have meant that previously you were not a true believer when you found your first love? Why would such a person have a lampstand to remove in the first place if they were not saved and why would Jesus remove someone’s lampstand if His words “it is finished” meant that salvation cannot be undone. I really don’t know why people quote that verse in support of eternal security. Absolutely nothing in the context of that passage of scripture has anything to do with eternal security. It sounds really nice and compelling to those who do not know the scriptures as an advocate for eternal security but it’s not. His suffering was finished, His sacrifice was finished. Where exactly in this passage of scripture is eternal security mentioned in any way shape or form?

“After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, to fulfill the Scripture, said, "I am thirsty." A jar full of sour wine was standing there; so they put a sponge full of the sour wine upon a branch of hyssop and brought it up to His mouth. Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit. Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. So the soldiers came, and broke the legs of the first man and of the other who was crucified with Him;”
‭‭John‬ ‭19:28-32‬ ‭NASB‬‬

OneOfTheMasters said:

IMO or understanding of the word of God under the leadership of the Holy Spirit.

Salvation is a done deal! It was a redemptive process purchased at Calvary by Jesus,God's son.
"It is finished",and can NEVER be undone!

Now on to this fact!
We must endure unto the end to be saved. Mt.24:13

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Are you not aware that if Mt 24:13 applies to every generation and "saved" means eternal salvation, then your statements above are in direct contradiction to the verse.

Fortunately, your understanding of the verse is incorrect. OSAS is biblical, of course.

Mt 24:13 is in the context of the 7 year tribulation. And "saved" doesn't refer to eternal soul salvation, but physical deliverance from danger.

Hence, no contradiction.

Rms.5:9 justified by His blood,and saved from God's wrath.

I fully believe salvation is a free gift of God to a world facing the PENALITY of sin!

I do not believe we can ever save ourselves,however I do believe and know that our personal walk with Him can falter to unconfessed sin and completely separate us from God!

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This continues to be contradictory.

You CANNOT have eternal security AND the possibility of separation from God, for any reason.

I do NOT believe my present nor future sins are forgiven until I confess them to God through Jesus and ask for forgiveness. 1 Jn.1:9

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This reveals a confusion of biblical truth. When Jesus died on the cross for sin, He died for ALL sin, period. Just read Hebrews 7-10 and count the number of times the words "once for all" occurs. I'll do th work: 6 times.

With your opinion, how do you square it with Heb 9:28 - so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

The word "many" in the Greek means "the masses". It does not mean 'many' as compared to 'everyone'.

I served and walked with Him many years,then I let circumstances and sin I did not confess lead me into a backslidden condition. Now some will say I was never saved to begin with.....lol. God alone knows the heart of man,no human flesh does!

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You were saved, but out of fellowship. Your sins made you uncleansed. You needed cleansing, which is accomplished via confession of those sins. Just like the foot washing example in John 13, where Jesus told ol' Peter that he was "already clean" but needed his feet washed.

I will now be called a salvation loser....lol no matter,I alone know my life..

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Granted, you know your life. But you do NOT know the Scriptures.

Just as He said in Rev 2:4/5,leaving my first love and falling,I had to REPENT AND DO THE FIRST WORKS again.
Now I am not a works for salvation believer but I can show you MY FAITH,by my works of studying praying,sharing the word,loving and helping others.

I'm just posting my position bc we ALL ANSWER TO A JUST GOD. I will.not be responding to quotes nor response to my post. Ty.

Blessings all!

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How do you square your loss of salvation view with what Jesus said in John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

The fact of never perishing is based solely on being given the gift of eternal life.

That is exactly what Jesus meant by what He said.

Skidder said:

What do you think "it is finished" means other than "dying for our sins"?

1 John 3:5
And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

Matthew 1:21
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Christ was manifest to take away our sins. Is it not sin that separates us from God? Is it not sin that brings God's wrath? Is it not sin that brings condemnation, judgement and death? So what else could "it is finished" mean other than Him dying for our sins?

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It is finished means exactly what I said it means. His suffering was finished. That’s what the context supports, anything else is an assumption. That’s why I posted all the verses surrounding that phrase to show everyone that nothing else can be assumed from the context of the scriptures surrounding that statement.

BNR32FAN said:

It is finished means exactly what I said it means. His suffering was finished. That’s what the context supports, anything else is an assumption. That’s why I posted all the verses surrounding that phrase to show everyone that nothing else can be assumed from the context of the scriptures surrounding that statement.

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You may ignore my post all you want, but I proved what the single Greek word actually means. It had NOTHING to do with just suffering. It HAD EVERYTHING to do with paying the penalty for mankind's sin. The Greek word means 'paid in full'.

iow, the debt was finished, paid off.

It speaks of His purpose on the cross.

But, please explain what you think He was doing on the cross, other than just suffering.

iow, for what reason was He suffering?

Skidder said:

So you are saying our sins were not being paid for while He was suffering? You really don't know what happened on that Hill do you? Did He not suffer and die for our sins on the cross? What do you think being crucified means? He paid for those sins the whole way through until His final death when the veil was torn open (His flesh). If He hadn't suffered for those sins He would not have died for those sins.

Isaiah 53:5
But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.

His dying on the cross was a slow death of suffering for our sins. You just keep attacking the cross because you have no Idea of what "O wretched man that I am!" really means. You still think you have something good in you apart from His blood alone to save you from your sins. And that is why you keep downplaying the price He paid, it gives no glory to your flesh.

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I really don’t know how to answer this. I’m completely at a loss for words.

So after reading this I really had to stop and think about it for a few minutes to really let it sink in and after much contemplation I’ve come to the conclusion that it would be utterly impossible for someone to arrive at a more ridiculously obtuse conclusion than you have here based on what I said. To think that I have all this knowledge of the scriptures, Greek definitions, early church writings, and early church history and come to the conclusion that I wouldn’t know the most basic, fundamentally elementary, teaching of the Bible is completely beyond my comprehension.