God, Pleasure as a Pursuit, and As an End

newton3005

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What does the Bible have to say about pleasure? Proverbs 21:17 says, “Whoever loves pleasure will be a poor man; he who loves wine and oil will not be rich.” If that were the only verse in the Bible that addresses pleasure, it would appear that any sober-minded person who wishes to be fruitful in everything done and in what their labors bear, should avoid pleasure at all costs, lest it destroy them. But that’s not the only verse in the Bible on the subject. And before we consider this verse we should consider what else is written in the Bible about pleasure, inasmuch as 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says that ALL scripture is breathed out by God for training, reproof, teaching and correction, that the person of God be equipped for every good work.

So, the first stop is the Book of Ecclesiastes. One may wonder if a Book as morbid as that one has anything uplifting to say about pleasure, but in fact it has some nice things to say about it. Ecclesiastes 2:24 says, “There is nothing better for a person than that he should eat and drink and FIND ENJOYMENT in his toil. This also, I saw, is from the hand of God...” This passage makes pleasure as an end as opposed to a pursuit that’s on the same level as our labors. So, the immediate goal should not be to pursue pleasure, it should be to work and THEN to enjoy what the fruits of our labor may bring us. Later on, Ecclesiastes 5:18 says “Behold, what I have seen to be good and fitting is to EAT AND DRINK AND FIND ENJOYMENT in all the toil with which one toils under the sun the few days of his life that God has given him, for this is his lot.”

These two verses give us pause regarding Proverbs 21:17 and perhaps a reading of it other than what we first thought. Proverbs 21:17 addresses the love of pleasure, but we can gather from taking the two Ecclesiastes passages into consideration, the Proverbs verse talks about the love of pleasure as being exclusive of things like work. That is, we will be poor if our primary goal is to pursue pleasure. Getting high on weed is a pleasure, but if that’s all we do, we are not being fruitful. Likewise, if we are left with an inheritance, and our goal is only to spend it on pleasure without doing any work, that inheritance will eventually disappear, hence the “poor” part of pursuing pleasure.

Under God, a person’s worth is measured in terms of output, not in terms of possessions. God in Genesis put Adam in the garden of Eden to WORK it. He also commanded Adam and Eve to be fruitful. One cannot be fruitful unless one has output. And in terms of a person’s value under God, one could have all the weed in the world fall into his lap, but he would have no value. He can’t take it with him when he passes away. But under God, a person’s value is measured in terms of their work output rather than what they have.

And God has meant for us to take pleasure in our work. Ecclesiastes 3:13 says, “...everyone should eat and drink and take pleasure in all his toil—this is God's gift to man.”

What does Jesus say about pleasure? I tell you that it is in line with Proverbs 21:17, if we see that verse as telling of the consequences of loving only pleasure and not doing anything for it. Jesus in Luke 8:14 says, “And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature.”

There are moral limits to the types of pleasure we can indulge in. As Psalms 1:1-2 says “Blessed is the man [whose]...delight is in the law of the LORD,” we should only indulge ourselves in the type of pleasures that God would not find to be of evil.

For whatever pleasure under God you want, you should use your work as a means to obtain it, and not to have a goal of solely taking pleasure in the fruits of the labor of others.
 

com7fy8

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What does the Bible have to say about pleasure? Proverbs 21:17 says, “Whoever loves pleasure will be a poor man; he who loves wine and oil will not be rich.” If that were the only verse in the Bible that addresses pleasure, it would appear that any sober-minded person who wishes to be fruitful in everything done and in what their labors bear, should avoid pleasure at all costs, lest it destroy them.
But it doesn't say the pleasure is evil. It says love of pleasure is the problem.

This could be like how "love of money" is a problem > 1 Timothy 6:10. Money itself is not evil, but loving it is. Jesus used money; He had the money bag. And He praised that widow for putting her money in the temple collection box.
 
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com7fy8

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But under God, a person’s value is measured in terms of their work output rather than what they have.
Well, our value with God is that Jesus died for our sins and payed for us with His own shed blood. Peter says we were redeemed by the precious blood of Jesus > 1 Peter 1:18-19.

But yes God does value that we do things . . . in His love. But we all are His children, if we have trusted in Jesus. What matters is not only what we do, but that we do it in His love. And this is in sharing with God who works in us to do "for His good pleasure." (in Philippians 2:13)

So, the value of our works is not in quantity, but in the quality of love and that God is the One who has us doing it. And He gets pleasure, by the way :)

So, we are not wise to only be hoping to get pleasure for ourselves from our work. But we seek to please God, by being pleasing in His love while we do things. And His love gives value to our works, doesn't it?

But our value is already because we are His children, but our works have value as much as they are done with God in His love, and these are not self-produced!

"Let all that you do be done with love." (in 1 Corinthians 16:14)

 
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com7fy8

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Jesus in Luke 8:14 says, “And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature.”
So, yes a person can be choked by pleasures. And our Apostle Paul says >

"I will not be brought under the power of any," in 1 Corinthians 6:12.

So, what matters is we do not let pleasure get us under its power. Because our weakness for pleasure, among other things, is weakness which makes us also able to suffer pain. And this is not in God's love, then. So, this weakness for pleasure keeps us from how we can now share with God in His own love, and with one another, as His family.

And such loving is the best pleasure, I would say, and this in sharing with God Himself in this His own love > Romans 5:5 > Psalm 63:3.

And this is better than what working can produce. This is simply in sharing with God, by His grace.

Even so, our Apostle Paul does say God "gives us richly all things to enjoy." This is in 1 Timothy 6:17. So, we can enjoy things, but without letting them get power over us to control us. And there are many things you do not have to do a thing to enjoy > you can simply appreciate fresh air and the rain which God provides so we can have life on this planet. Yet, ones curse and complain against God's blessing of rain . . . while they may work very hard to get pleasures they have to pay for!!!!

There are things which God gives freely which we can enjoy.

So . . .

For whatever pleasure under God you want, you should use your work as a means to obtain it, and not to have a goal of solely taking pleasure in the fruits of the labor of others.
Now, you have kept saying "under" God. But in Jesus we His children are in God, in the Holy Spirit of God's own love > 1 Corinthians 6:17, Romans 5:5.

But there are people who are down under, in this evil world. And yes they do many works in order to have pleasure. But what they can get themselves to get is inferior. And in their weakness for pleasure, they can suffer deeply and not be able to relate well.

And their pleasure is so inferior by being merely physical, while we in Jesus enjoy the goodness of His own love with joy so tender and sweet. And outward working by itself can not produce this.

So, I think we could say our best pleasure is not of works.

But "under" God there is work which can produce inferior pleasure. So, it is wise to take any pleasure like that, with a grain of salt, knowing it might feel fine, but God is so better, and our relating in God's love as His family is so special, with true intimacy so nicer than physical intimacy.
 
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bcbsr

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What does the Bible have to say about pleasure? Proverbs 21:17 says, “Whoever loves pleasure will be a poor man; he who loves wine and oil will not be rich.” If that were the only verse in the Bible that addresses pleasure, it would appear that any sober-minded person who wishes to be fruitful in everything done and in what their labors bear, should avoid pleasure at all costs, lest it destroy them. But that’s not the only verse in the Bible on the subject. And before we consider this verse we should consider what else is written in the Bible about pleasure, inasmuch as 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says that ALL scripture is breathed out by God for training, reproof, teaching and correction, that the person of God be equipped for every good work.

So, the first stop is the Book of Ecclesiastes. One may wonder if a Book as morbid as that one has anything uplifting to say about pleasure, but in fact it has some nice things to say about it. Ecclesiastes 2:24 says, “There is nothing better for a person than that he should eat and drink and FIND ENJOYMENT in his toil. This also, I saw, is from the hand of God...” This passage makes pleasure as an end as opposed to a pursuit that’s on the same level as our labors. So, the immediate goal should not be to pursue pleasure, it should be to work and THEN to enjoy what the fruits of our labor may bring us. Later on, Ecclesiastes 5:18 says “Behold, what I have seen to be good and fitting is to EAT AND DRINK AND FIND ENJOYMENT in all the toil with which one toils under the sun the few days of his life that God has given him, for this is his lot.”

These two verses give us pause regarding Proverbs 21:17 and perhaps a reading of it other than what we first thought. Proverbs 21:17 addresses the love of pleasure, but we can gather from taking the two Ecclesiastes passages into consideration, the Proverbs verse talks about the love of pleasure as being exclusive of things like work. That is, we will be poor if our primary goal is to pursue pleasure. Getting high on weed is a pleasure, but if that’s all we do, we are not being fruitful. Likewise, if we are left with an inheritance, and our goal is only to spend it on pleasure without doing any work, that inheritance will eventually disappear, hence the “poor” part of pursuing pleasure.

Under God, a person’s worth is measured in terms of output, not in terms of possessions. God in Genesis put Adam in the garden of Eden to WORK it. He also commanded Adam and Eve to be fruitful. One cannot be fruitful unless one has output. And in terms of a person’s value under God, one could have all the weed in the world fall into his lap, but he would have no value. He can’t take it with him when he passes away. But under God, a person’s value is measured in terms of their work output rather than what they have.

And God has meant for us to take pleasure in our work. Ecclesiastes 3:13 says, “...everyone should eat and drink and take pleasure in all his toil—this is God's gift to man.”

What does Jesus say about pleasure? I tell you that it is in line with Proverbs 21:17, if we see that verse as telling of the consequences of loving only pleasure and not doing anything for it. Jesus in Luke 8:14 says, “And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature.”

There are moral limits to the types of pleasure we can indulge in. As Psalms 1:1-2 says “Blessed is the man [whose]...delight is in the law of the LORD,” we should only indulge ourselves in the type of pleasures that God would not find to be of evil.

For whatever pleasure under God you want, you should use your work as a means to obtain it, and not to have a goal of solely taking pleasure in the fruits of the labor of others.
On the other hand:

1 Timothy 5:6 "the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives."

2 Timothy 3:2-5 "People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God — having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them."

Luke 8:14 The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature.

Jas 4:3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.
 
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