Yes, murder CAN be justified...

Bee_Brian · Dec 14, 2019

Hi brothers and sisters of Christ.

About killing and murder... It is explicitly stated in one of the Ten Commandments that murder is wrong. Now, I'm not an avid Bible-reader, but I consider myself a philosopher. And in my studies, Thomas Aquinas who was the greatest medieval Christian theologian mentioned THREE things that can make murder justified. But keep in mind, this is in the context of war. And war can be justified by three reasons.

Haha. Unfortunately, I can only remember ONE of those reasons, but I think it's the most provocative. And it is this. Legitimacy of the sovereign... Which basically means that if Jesus (a legitimate sovereign) commands you to wage war against evil entities, you wage war against evil entities.

What do you all think of this?

yeshuaslavejeff · Dec 14, 2019

Bee_Brian said:
What do you all think of this?

It looks all wrong.
The so-called theology you seem to count on, seems wrong also.

solid_core · Dec 14, 2019

Bee_Brian said:
Hi brothers and sisters of Christ.

About killing and murder... It is explicitly stated in one of the Ten Commandments that murder is wrong. Now, I'm not an avid Bible-reader, but I consider myself a philosopher. And in my studies, Thomas Aquinas who was the greatest medieval Christian theologian mentioned THREE things that can make murder justified. But keep in mind, this is in the context of war. And war can be justified by three reasons.

Haha. Unfortunately, I can only remember ONE of those reasons, but I think it's the most provocative. And it is this. Legitimacy of the sovereign... Which basically means that if Jesus (a legitimate sovereign) commands you to wage war against evil entities, you wage war against evil entities.

What do you all think of this?

1. Philosophers do not say "haha", they act decently and without emotions.

2. Killing in a war is not a murder. Murder is an act from private personal reasons and from hate. Self defense is not a murder, defense in a war is not a murder, police chasing and killing somebody, if justified, is not a murder etc.

yeshuaslavejeff · Dec 14, 2019

God's Ways are higher than man's ways, all the time, every day.

SarahsKnight · Dec 14, 2019

Bee_Brian said:
Haha. Unfortunately, I can only remember ONE of those reasons, but I think it's the most provocative. And it is this. Legitimacy of the sovereign... Which basically means that if Jesus (a legitimate sovereign) commands you to wage war against evil entities, you wage war against evil entities.

What do you all think of this?

..... I really hope that you aren't allowed to purchase assault weapons.

Bee_Brian · Dec 14, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
God's Ways are higher than man's ways, all the time, every day.

Which makes it a mystery why you're disagreeing with me.

I mentioned Legitimacy of the Sovereign, and you said God's ways are higher than man's ways. So why were you disagreeing with me?

yeshuaslavejeff · Dec 14, 2019

Bee_Brian said:
Thomas Aquinas who was the greatest medieval Christian theologian

Basically, if you think for any reason this one said that murder is justified to do, then something is very, very, very wrong.

Rather, as Jesus says clearly, "be harmless as doves".

topher694 · Dec 14, 2019

I believe by definition if it is considered justified then it is not murder.

Sabertooth · Dec 14, 2019

Killing can be justified, but murder cannot. Murder, by definition, means an "unjustified killing" of another human being.

yeshuaslavejeff · Dec 14, 2019

topher694 said:
I believe by definition if it is considered justified then it is not murder.

Yahweh in His Word says that whoever takes the life of another, his life is required of him. Cities were established in case an accidental death happened , and if the one who killed another could make it to one of those cities, and remain there , he could be possibly kept alive, otherwise a relative of the one he killed could kill him without penalty.

topher694 · Dec 14, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Yahweh in His Word says that whoever takes the life of another, his life is required of him. Cities were established in case an accidental death happened , and if the one who killed another could make it to one of those cities, and remain there , he could be possibly kept alive, otherwise a relative of the one he killed could kill him without penalty.

Not really the point, I believe that is a different discussion. I just mean by the actually definition of murder is basically an unjustified killing, or conversely a justified killing isn't murder. I'm not taking a stance on what is actually right or wrong, I'm just saying the entire premise of this thread doesn't make a lot of sense.

Ahermit · Dec 14, 2019

Bee_Brian said:
... if Jesus (a legitimate sovereign) commands you to wage war against evil entities, you wage war against evil entities.

What do you all think of this?

Invalid.
It is evil which incites war, terror, fear, prejudice, anger, and all other forms of tension. Jesus Christ would not command others to do what evil does.

GaveMeJoy · Dec 14, 2019

solid_core said:
1. Philosophers do not say "haha", they act decently and without emotions.

2. Killing in a war is not a murder. Murder is an act from private personal reasons and from hate. Self defense is not a murder, defense in a war is not a murder, police chasing and killing somebody, if justified, is not a murder etc.

Ahermit said:
Invalid.
It is evil which incites war, terror, fear, prejudice, anger, and all other forms of tension. Jesus Christ would not command others to do what evil does.

God commanded the Israelites to murder every man, woman, child and animal in entire cities. He killed all of the humans on earth except a half dozen. God never changes and Jesus is part of the trinity. God’s ways are above our ways and his acts are justified because he is God even if it doesn’t seem right to us

SarahsKnight · Dec 14, 2019

Ahermit said:
It is evil which incites war, terror, fear, prejudice, anger, and all other forms of tension. Jesus Christ would not command others to do what evil does.

Exactly.

solid_core · Dec 14, 2019

GaveMeJoy said:
God commanded the Israelites to murder every man, woman, child and animal in entire cities. He killed all of the humans on earth except a half dozen. God never changes and Jesus is part of the trinity. God’s ways are above our ways and his acts are justified because he is God even if it doesn’t seem right to us

1. I partly doubt God ordered something like that. Not everything in printed Bibles is the word of God.

2. If God would really order some military to wipe out whole nations because of their sins, then it would again would not be a murder - a murder is from a personal hate, for private reasons.

GaveMeJoy · Dec 14, 2019

yea I mean he had Joshua kill Achan’s entire family including his children and livestock because achan stole a wedge of Gold. The kids didn’t even know what was going on and God commanded the Israelites to stone him. Also the flood.

but I’m just going off what the Bible says because I believe it is the word of God. However i can respect and appreciate those who do not believe in the Bible

solid_core · Dec 14, 2019

GaveMeJoy said:
yea I mean he had Joshua kill Achan’s entire family including his children and livestock because achan stole a wedge of Gold. The kids didn’t even know what was going on and God commanded the Israelites to stone him. Also the flood.

but I’m just going off what the Bible says because I believe it is the word of God. However i can respect and appreciate those who do not believe in the Bible

I do not believe in the Bible, I believe in God.

In my opinion, Bible contains both inspired and uninspired texts.

But again, even if these jewish history records were true, then it would not qualify as a murder.

1an · Dec 14, 2019

GaveMeJoy said:
God commanded the Israelites to murder every man, woman, child and animal in entire cities. He killed all of the humans on earth except a half dozen. God never changes and Jesus is part of the trinity. God’s ways are above our ways and his acts are justified because he is God even if it doesn’t seem right to us

That would NOT be the I AM (Jesus) who commanded the mass murder of the Canannites. The Israelites worshipped false gods, Baal for example who they called LORD. They called the Golden Calf LORD for example. Baal is Satan, the Father of lies. See Jesus in John 8:44.

Carl Emerson · Dec 14, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Rather, as Jesus says clearly, "be harmless as doves".

I think the rendering is innocent as doves... Matt 10:16

Innocence can be forceful...

Original Happy Camper · Dec 14, 2019

solid_core said:
Not everything in printed Bibles is the word of God.

appears you have a problem here.

It is our interpretation that is flawed not the word of God printed through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

I disregard all Bibles printed based on the Hort and Westcott transcripts

Sola Scripture

Yes, murder CAN be justified...

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