If you believe you can lose your salvation you are in bondage to a works salvation. A little yeast works through the whole batch. It is either by His grace, or the self righteous stench of human effort.
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ETERNAL SECURITY/ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED
- Thread starter Skidder
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Oh ok , if I don't believe as you do about OSAS I'm in bondage to a works salvation. That's lame to say the least. You have no legitimate argument for the case of OSAS so you insult the salvation of others. That's a real winner.
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The OSAS's never stop, they think the one with the most posts wins. They mostly copy/paste their replies because they've had the same conversation over and over again in other threads. Their time in the forums is spent almost solely on OSAS threads. They're OSAS forum addicts. Don't waste your time.
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- Jun 28, 2018
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Paul was describing what it was like as an unbeliever under law. He shows a different view as a believer under grace in Galatians 5:16
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ColoRaydo
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I have not heard any believer in OSAS claim they have a license to sin intentionally. Someone who has missed the point of OSAS might believe that to be the case, but I haven’t personally seen it.
Whether one claims to be saved or not, God knows your heart, and a sin does not change your heart nor does dying before getting the opportunity to confess and repent. If your heart truly wants to follow him, he knows it, despite your actions.
People are weak. People will fail constantly to live up to God’s standard of perfection. A Christian who dies in a car accident because he is speeding (intentional sin) is ever bit as guilty as a Christian who commits adultery, or has a heart attack after momentarily lusting after someone who is not their spouse, or is angry at a neighbor, or jealous about their neighbor’s new boat, or who points to their own righteousness compared to others. It’s all sin and covered by the blood of Jesus.
As an airline pilot, I’ll use a plane metaphor. The plane will only fly if it’s airworthy. If the wings fall off it won’t fly. It’s grounded. That’s big, visible and obvious. If one little wire connected to an engine temperature gauge is frayed, the plane is not airworthy. That’s little, unseen and and no one would know just by looking at it. Doesn’t matter, big or little defects will ground the plane. Think of the plane as being “unsaved”. However, there is a large document called the MEL that’s allows the plane to fly with a whole list of imperfections. It doesn’t mean we can intentionally break these things, it doesn’t mean we want these things, but the document allows the plane to fly. It is covered. They need to be fixed, certainly, but the plane will fly. Think of the MEL as Christ’s sacrifice. It’s an overly simplistic example, but the point can be seen.
I personally don’t believe in OSAS but it has to do with how the heart (or brain) views Christ’s sacrifice. If you believed in Christ’s salvation once, but changed your mind later and think nothing about it, have no desire one way or another to have a relationship with the Lord, or believe that being a good person is good enough, then there’s danger.
I firmly believe that OSAS applies to sins being covered, not a conscious change of heart.
I know some people on this forum think they no longer sin. I’ve seen other people condemn others and tell them they shouldn’t bother trying to follow God because they are in a sinful living situation in their opinion. Good luck explaining both of those when the time comes ... but if you’re heart is right despite your imperfect beliefs actions, you’re covered.
Whether one claims to be saved or not, God knows your heart, and a sin does not change your heart nor does dying before getting the opportunity to confess and repent. If your heart truly wants to follow him, he knows it, despite your actions.
People are weak. People will fail constantly to live up to God’s standard of perfection. A Christian who dies in a car accident because he is speeding (intentional sin) is ever bit as guilty as a Christian who commits adultery, or has a heart attack after momentarily lusting after someone who is not their spouse, or is angry at a neighbor, or jealous about their neighbor’s new boat, or who points to their own righteousness compared to others. It’s all sin and covered by the blood of Jesus.
As an airline pilot, I’ll use a plane metaphor. The plane will only fly if it’s airworthy. If the wings fall off it won’t fly. It’s grounded. That’s big, visible and obvious. If one little wire connected to an engine temperature gauge is frayed, the plane is not airworthy. That’s little, unseen and and no one would know just by looking at it. Doesn’t matter, big or little defects will ground the plane. Think of the plane as being “unsaved”. However, there is a large document called the MEL that’s allows the plane to fly with a whole list of imperfections. It doesn’t mean we can intentionally break these things, it doesn’t mean we want these things, but the document allows the plane to fly. It is covered. They need to be fixed, certainly, but the plane will fly. Think of the MEL as Christ’s sacrifice. It’s an overly simplistic example, but the point can be seen.
I personally don’t believe in OSAS but it has to do with how the heart (or brain) views Christ’s sacrifice. If you believed in Christ’s salvation once, but changed your mind later and think nothing about it, have no desire one way or another to have a relationship with the Lord, or believe that being a good person is good enough, then there’s danger.
I firmly believe that OSAS applies to sins being covered, not a conscious change of heart.
I know some people on this forum think they no longer sin. I’ve seen other people condemn others and tell them they shouldn’t bother trying to follow God because they are in a sinful living situation in their opinion. Good luck explaining both of those when the time comes ... but if you’re heart is right despite your imperfect beliefs actions, you’re covered.
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Those who believe His blood is not sufficient will often use phrases like OSAS to divert from the doctrine of ETERNAL LIFE. The word ETERNAL offends them so much because it gives no glory to their flesh. They want to mix human effort with the blood of Christ because their own pride tells them His cross is not enough. Until they see the value of His blood they will keep using terms like OSAS instead of ETERNAL LIFE. Because their definition of ETERNAL is CONDITIONAL.
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I don't have an argument against a term called OSAS that is not in the bible. Why don't call it what it is ETERNAL LIFE. Look it up, you will find the definition of ETERNAL is not CONDITIONAL. Why is eternal life ETERNAL not conditional? Because Jesus said... IT IS FINISHED!!
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I'll tell you what I've told others in this discussion, OSAS is nothing but a diversion from the reality of the word ETERNAL in ETERNAL LIFE. I've posted this definition before, but apparently the offense of the cross blinds them from reading it....
Eternal:: lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning. having infinite duration : everlasting: continued without intermission : perpetual
Now do you see why Satan comes up with diversions like OSAS? He doesn't want them to know that the blood of Christ obtains ETERNAL REDEMPTION...
Hebrews 9:12
Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
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You still don't seem to understand. Again, a born again believer that's rooted in Christ will not fall away. They will not commit the unpardonable sin, and will not lose their salvation. However, those who may have, to some degree, embraced the truth, but have now abandoned it, will not inherit the kingdom of God. They will not gain eternal life despite that they attended church and "gave it a go".
Try not to stress out to much about your salvation, nor the salvation of others. Spending so much time on this one topic is a waste of your time. There is so much more to the bible. You should try and go deeper rather than sitting by the shore watching everyone else enjoying themselves splashing in the water. I will pray for you.
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- Aug 11, 2017
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Eternal security is a 16th century teaching otherwise the early church writings would not have refuted it. Romans 11:17-23, John 15:1-10, and 2 Timothy 2:12 are just a few examples that we can lose our salvation by turning to unbelief or failing to abide in Christ. Hence they didn’t endure to the end.
“But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.”
Romans 11:17-23 NASB
“"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.”
John 15:1-10 NASB
“If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;”
2 Timothy 2:12 NASB
The verses that people think supports eternal security actually don’t and to interpret them in a such way that supports eternal security is ignoring the context and implications of the message in its entirety of each book they reading. Each verse is not the full message the authors were trying to convey you have to read the entire book and consider the implications of what’s actually being said to fully comprehend the author’s intention.
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Jesus said in John 15:2 The Father cuts off every branch in Me that beareth not fruit.
He also said in John 15:6 anyone who doesn’t abide (stay, remain, continue) in Me will be cast away to wither and cast into the fire to be burned.
Paul said in 2 Timothy 2:12 if we deny Him He will deny us. Paul even included himself as being capable of denying Christ and also being capable of being denied by Christ.
Romans 11:17-23 Paul says that believers can turn to unbelief and thus be cut off from the Olive Tree (God’s Covenant).
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I don't agree with OSAS, however I don't believe born again believers will fall away. I don't think they can because they have the Holy Spirit in them.
Mathew 7:24-27 talk about building your house on a rock. This means building your faith so that it will withstand unbelief. The only way to do this is to become born again. Once regeneration begins, it cannot become undone.
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Eternal life has always been there for everyone to read. The word Eternal does not mean conditional. Only those who can't see the blood of Christ is sufficient will try to divert from the meaning of ETERNAL in ETERNAL life. My bible says ETERNAL LIFE not CONDITIONAL LIFE.
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Exactly my point "Eternal Security". Another term used to distract from the meaning of ETERNAL LIFE. Why not just talk about what offends the flesh? The word ETERNAL in Eternal life. Why does it offend the flesh? The very reason eternal redemption through His blood offends the flesh. The cross of Christ gives no glory to the flesh, and that is why people are always trying to mix it with the self righteous stench of human effort. Jesus paid the price, NOT US!!
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Matthew 7:21-27 is about living in compliance of Jesus’ instructions.
“"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell-and great was its fall."”
Matthew 7:21-27 NASB
At the end of Ephesians 4 on into the beginning of Ephesians 5 Paul warns the saints in Ephesus who are faithful to Christ of turning back to a sinful way of life and thus receiving the wrath of God on the sons of disobedience. This indicates that those who are faithful in Christ are fully capable of turning back to a sinful way of life and as a result will have no inheritance in the kingdom of heaven.
“Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another. BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity. He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.”
Ephesians 4:25-32 NASB
“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
Ephesians 5:1-6 NASB
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I know full well that the blood of Christ is sufficient and I also understand that He gave us many examples to follow that failure to comply will result in the revocation of salvation. Matthew 7:21-27 is a perfect example of this.
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Then please give your interpretation of the three passages I provided.
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Scripture does not contradict scripture. What good would it do to explain the meaning of scripture when you are blinded to the fact the blood of Christ is sufficient? If you don't believe the cross is enough you will always be in bondage to a works salvation. How do I know this? I was doing the same thing you are doing now when I couldn't see the word ETERNAL in eternal life means ETERNAL.
All you have to do is go through my posts and see who is preaching and defending Christ Crucified and who is proclaiming His grace is not sufficient. Every attack on eternal life is an attack on the blood of His Cross.
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Then what’s the point of this thread if you aren’t willing to discuss it? Do you only intend to state your claim but refuse to back it up? How is anyone going to see your point of view if you aren’t willing to discuss the scriptures?
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